Why do I have to give up explicit Constitutional rights?

[RightIsWrong]

I found this while responding to some dolt on another board. It looks like the odds of being killed in a terrorist attack are greatly less than Fido turning on me. I think that we should euthenise all dogs now. Has anyone shown these stats to Bush? I'm sure that he will agree. He has to protect the citizens!!!

I would rather take my chances with OBL talking to Sheik on the phone without them being eavesdropped on illegally, than to give up my explicit constitutional rights. If Bush knows that Sheik is an ally of OBL, he can just get a freaking warrant.

"There are more than 40,000 malls in this country, and each is open about 75 hours per week. If a person shopped for two hours each week and terrorists were able to destroy one mall per week, the odds of being at the wrong place at the wrong time would be approximately 1.5 million to 1. If terrorists destroyed one mall each month, the odds would climb to one in 6 million. This assumes the total destruction of the entire mall; if that unlikely event didn't occur, the odds would become even more favorable."

The odds of a typical American falling victim to other life-threatening incidents are, according to travel-insurance website travelfinders.com:

*Being killed by a dog: 1:700,000

*Killed by debris from space: 1:5 billion

*Freezing to death: 1: 3 million

*Killed in a car accident: 1:5,000

*Killed in a plane crash: 1:25 million

By contrast, one's chances of winning first prize in the New York lottery by picking correctly those six numbers are one in more than 45 million.

 

[Genx87]

What an absurd stance to take. I am sure in WWII your chances of being locked up in a Nazi concentration camp within the United States was even more far flung than these statistics. Should we base our national security on statistic comparisons?

And which stat does it need to beat? The dog one or the bee one before we decide to act on it?

People wonder why the left isnt taken seriously anymore.
I think you should send this off to Howard Dean so he can blab about this on "Meet the Depressed". Nothing would bring a smile to my face more.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What an absurd stance to take. I am sure in WWII your chances of being locked up in a Nazi concentration camp within the United States was even more far flung than these statistics. Should we base our national security on statistic comparisons?

And which stat does it need to beat? The dog one or the bee one before we decide to act on it?

People wonder why the left isnt taken seriously anymore.
I think you should send this off to Howard Dean so he can blab about this on "Meet the Depressed". Nothing would bring a smile to my face more.

What an absurd stance to take. It's amazing that some would rather live in a police state out of a fear that does not have any better chance than winning a lottery.

Do you believe that, if you were alive during WWII, that you would have rather had curfews enacted, the continued detention centers for Japanese Americans, the government with the "legal" authority to enter into your home at any given time to search through your correspondence to see if you might have had contact with someone of German or Japanese decent?

At what level of infinate chance does it have to reach before you feel safe again?

I think that you should write Karl Rove and tell him that you believe that the Republican leadership is doing too little to protect you and that they need to strip away more rights so that they can prove, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that they truly are tough and out to protect us. :disgust:

 

[Moonbeam]

Freedom cannot be kept by modern day television watching people who have been trained via lust and fear to buy buy buy or vote vote vote for me.

People today are walking paranoids lusting for real estate and a new Lexus and fearing nuclear weapons, bird flu, and the loss of a job. We are walking time bombs waiting to explode into a psychosis of self destruction.

But what are you going to do. The Sacred Market is built on fear and lust and we wouldn't want to let go of that for heaven's sake. Who wants to live in a world where God is dead.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Genx87
What an absurd stance to take. I am sure in WWII your chances of being locked up in a Nazi concentration camp within the United States was even more far flung than these statistics. Should we base our national security on statistic comparisons?

And which stat does it need to beat? The dog one or the bee one before we decide to act on it?

People wonder why the left isnt taken seriously anymore.
I think you should send this off to Howard Dean so he can blab about this on "Meet the Depressed". Nothing would bring a smile to my face more.

What an absurd stance to take. It's amazing that some would rather live in a police state out of a fear that does not have any better chance than winning a lottery.

Do you believe that, if you were alive during WWII, that you would have rather had curfews enacted, the continued detention centers for Japanese Americans, the government with the "legal" authority to enter into your home at any given time to search through your correspondence to see if you might have had contact with someone of German or Japanese decent?

At what level of infinate chance does it have to reach before you feel safe again?

I think that you should write Karl Rove and tell him that you believe that the Republican leadership is doing too little to protect you and that they need to strip away more rights so that they can prove, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that they truly are tough and out to protect us. :disgust:

Good job not answering my question.

 

[OrByte]

I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: OrByte
I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

Who's living in fear? take a look at who is posting all the doomsday threads every day in this forum. Certainly not bush supporters


EDIT: And what rights exactly, have you given up?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Genx87
What an absurd stance to take. I am sure in WWII your chances of being locked up in a Nazi concentration camp within the United States was even more far flung than these statistics. Should we base our national security on statistic comparisons?

And which stat does it need to beat? The dog one or the bee one before we decide to act on it?

People wonder why the left isnt taken seriously anymore.
I think you should send this off to Howard Dean so he can blab about this on "Meet the Depressed". Nothing would bring a smile to my face more.

What an absurd stance to take. It's amazing that some would rather live in a police state out of a fear that does not have any better chance than winning a lottery.

Do you believe that, if you were alive during WWII, that you would have rather had curfews enacted, the continued detention centers for Japanese Americans, the government with the "legal" authority to enter into your home at any given time to search through your correspondence to see if you might have had contact with someone of German or Japanese decent?

At what level of infinate chance does it have to reach before you feel safe again?

I think that you should write Karl Rove and tell him that you believe that the Republican leadership is doing too little to protect you and that they need to strip away more rights so that they can prove, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that they truly are tough and out to protect us. :disgust:

Good job not answering my question.

Ok. I'll play along. Allow me to address each of your questions.

1. Should we base our national security on statistic comparisons? We already do this.
2. And which stat does it need to beat? The dog one or the bee one before we decide to act on it? Uhhh....I would say that we need to, at the very least, come in under winning the freaking powerball!!

There. I have answered your questions. Please return the favor....mmkay?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: OrByte
I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

Who's living in fear? take a look at who is posting all the doomsday threads every day in this forum. Certainly not bush supporters


EDIT: And what rights exactly, have you given up?

Exactly so. The Bush people are ideological dreamers and idealists. They believe they will be safe if they give up their freedoms to people just like them. Only bad people have to fear the loss of freedom. A frog is boiled by raising the temperature of his cooking pot slowly one degree at a time. And Rome was saved by the cackling of her faithful geese.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: OrByte
I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

Who's living in fear? take a look at who is posting all the doomsday threads every day in this forum. Certainly not bush supporters


EDIT: And what rights exactly, have you given up?

Exactly so. The Bush people are ideological dreamers and idealists. They believe they will be safe if they give up their freedoms to people just like them. Only bad people have to fear the loss of freedom. A frog is boiled by raising the temperature of his cooking pot slowly one degree at a time. And Rome was saved by the cackling of her faithful geese.

You havent answered the question either..

What freedoms have YOU given up?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: OrByte
I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

Who's living in fear? take a look at who is posting all the doomsday threads every day in this forum. Certainly not bush supporters


EDIT: And what rights exactly, have you given up?

Exactly so. The Bush people are ideological dreamers and idealists. They believe they will be safe if they give up their freedoms to people just like them. Only bad people have to fear the loss of freedom. A frog is boiled by raising the temperature of his cooking pot slowly one degree at a time. And Rome was saved by the cackling of her faithful geese.

You havent answered the question either..

What freedoms have YOU given up?

I have given up the right to feel secure in my own home (as the constitution dictates that I should) from fear/worries about UNWARRANTED (indirect contridiction to the constitution) invasions into my privacy from an administration that has openly admitted that they have and will continue to do.

Once again, because you seem to have forgotten where to find it yourself.......

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: OrByte
I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

Who's living in fear? take a look at who is posting all the doomsday threads every day in this forum. Certainly not bush supporters


EDIT: And what rights exactly, have you given up?

Exactly so. The Bush people are ideological dreamers and idealists. They believe they will be safe if they give up their freedoms to people just like them. Only bad people have to fear the loss of freedom. A frog is boiled by raising the temperature of his cooking pot slowly one degree at a time. And Rome was saved by the cackling of her faithful geese.

You havent answered the question either..

What freedoms have YOU given up?

I have given up the right to feel secure in my own home (as the constitution dictates that I should) from fear/worries about UNWARRANTED (indirect contridiction to the constitution) invasions into my privacy from an administration that has openly admitted that they have and will continue to do.

Once again, because you seem to have forgotten where to find it yourself.......

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Who's invading houses without warrants? Who is taking your papers or effects?

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Genx87
And which stat does it need to beat?

Oh, how about the odds that you will at least once during the rest of your life write a sentence that demonstrates the existence of a brain stem?

 

[Todd33]

For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: OrByte
I think those statistics help clarify that even though we hear about it every day and the drum beat by this administration has pummeled us with the message that terrorists want to destroy us, that the chances of such an event are still remote. It wouldn't hurt us to stop living in fear of these terrorists.

Who's living in fear? take a look at who is posting all the doomsday threads every day in this forum. Certainly not bush supporters


EDIT: And what rights exactly, have you given up?

Oh dear, I feel like the record player is skipping the song again over and over and over...

do you have the appropriate comprehension skills to participate in a discussion like this? I mean seriously. I haven't given up any rights but this administration is making ground on taking individual rights away from me. Does that make sense to you? I guess now you are going to ask me to back up this claim right? please allow me to link you to this thread (read the last two pages) and you can read for yourself my position (as well as Bowfingers) position on just one of the many issues facing our nation where are civil rights are in jepordy. Oh and as a side note, our positions were never met with an appropriate response from the local Bush fluffers...the thread was simply left to die. Feel free to read my claim and Bowfinger's claim, and see exactly what I mean when I say our rights are in danger. And feel free to offer a response.

can you handle a debate on this issue? Somehow I don't think so. So keep throwing out worthless single sentence questions in the hopes of tripping people up.

Those that buy into the claim that, "We have no civil liberties if we are dead." propoganda are living in fear. Who was it that made that direct quote? I think it was Bill Frist but I could be wrong. At any rate, can you comprehend the meaning behind such a statement?

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Todd33
For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

Did I say personally?

And WHICH rights has SOMEONE had violated, for which I am supposed to care about?

 

[piasabird]

WAR IS HELL
Congress authorized a war. When they did that, President Bush was given the right to use certain powers that can be used in time of war. I guess the president could force the issue and declare marshall law or get congress to do that. We could also just wait till they attack again.
maybe next attack will be against Los Angeles, CA.

 

[Lemon law]

To somewhat clarify this post I would cite two situations.

1. Suppose you are out in public and encounter a seriously deranged person---someone who has
acted normally before but now snaps--because your appearance resembles a person they had hated
in the past-----and now you get a knife in the back which kills or injures you. What can you do to protect yourself from this small but still possible risk?--basically nothing.--if you change your appearance some other person is equally likely to have them remind you of someone else.

2. You act in a manner that alienates others. You finanallty encounter someone who resorts to violence. ---what can you do to reduce the risk--short answer don't piss people off. For Europeans,
terrorists were somewhat old hat since the 1970's---largely due to the sins of their colonial past. For the USA terrorism is somewhat new since 911.--we got sucker punched on 911 and got a lot of world sympathy---since then we have by in large alienated 1.4 billion Moslems, alienated our allies,
invaded a country on false pretences, run around like a bully with a chip on their shoulder, and aided terrorist recruitment. We are now what every terrorists sees as the biggest object on their radar screen as we decend into a police state.-----is there no alternative course like having some sensativities regarding who we are offending and defusing the causes of terrorism?

Do you feel safer yet?

 

[RightIsWrong]

You are trying to argue symantics.

Tell you what, if you are so "secure" that the Bush administration is acting lawfully and Constitutionally, why don't you start a petition or, at the very least, write your congressman and senators and tell them that you feel as such. Also, that because you believe that Bush is acting within his constitutional authority to authorize these WARANTLESS wiretaps (in direct conflict with the FISA law of 1978 along with the constitution) you would like a full investigation into the matter with ALL WITNESSES BEING SWORN IN.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Todd33
For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

Did I say personally?

And WHICH rights has SOMEONE had violated, for which I am supposed to care about?

you don't care, hence this issue will mean nothing to you.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Train
Who's invading houses without warrants? Who is taking your papers or effects?

How would we ever know? Under the Patriot act, all sorts of surveillance and information-gathering can take place without notifying the subject. And anyone contacted by the FBI in order to gather information about you is forbidden, under penalty of law, from revealing that contact.

And I'm not even addressing the data warehouses being filled to overflowing with information on innocent private citizens, information that is being collected, freely exchanged among governmental agencies, and NOT discarded even after it's determined that the subject has no relationship whatsoever to terrorism.

What we don't know can't hurt us, right?

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Todd33
For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

Did I say personally?

And WHICH rights has SOMEONE had violated, for which I am supposed to care about?

you don't care, hence this issue will mean nothing to you.

who are you to tell me I dont care?

You are simply dodging the question.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Todd33
For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

Did I say personally?

And WHICH rights has SOMEONE had violated, for which I am supposed to care about?

you don't care, hence this issue will mean nothing to you.

who are you to tell me I dont care?

You are simply dodging the question.

I gave you a link to another thread that answers your question ENTIRELY

now who is dodging?

do you really care? tell me what do you really care about?

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Todd33
For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

Did I say personally?

And WHICH rights has SOMEONE had violated, for which I am supposed to care about?

Your 2nd amendment rights, the security to know that you will be free from unwarranted search and seizure..

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Todd33
For people like Train, you have to be personally affected by acts before you start to care. When was I last attacked by a terrorist? Never, hence zero of my tax money should go to HLS, and definitely none should go to Iraq (which has zero to do with anything security related). Right?

Did I say personally?

And WHICH rights has SOMEONE had violated, for which I am supposed to care about?

Your 2nd amendment rights, the security to know that you will be free from unwarranted search and seizure..

Who's being searched and seized without a warrant?!!?!?!