Why do communities put up with gangs and the parents who create them?

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Craig234
Gangs are a result of, among other things, disaffected, poor populations/sub-communities who form the gangs because it fills members' needs better than other options.

A way to fight gangs is to fight the poverty, broken homes and other problems.

You see 'gangs' in many poor third world countries up to near-government levels, such as the warlords in Afghanistan; in the American old west sometimes; and imported to the US as well as native from our own disaffected populations such as the Bloods and Crips.

For once I agree with you Craig.

Glad to be on the same side with you on this one.

 

[First]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Do you honestly think anyone here was saying "there are no illegal immigrant gangs in the U.S."? db is right in that there is no more a problem with illegal immigrant gangs than with other non-illegals gangs. Pointing out one illegals DC metro gang does not in any way support any of your arguments here, which seem to be made up on the fly. If you didn't know that illegals do not commit crimes at higher rates than anyone else in the U.S. (controlling for the equalizer that is income), just man up about it.

Ok, lets go back to the beginning. db said "I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America". "

I pointed out an "illegal immigrant gang" that is a "huge problem in America". MS-13, an "illegal immigrant gang" is one of the biggest problems in the DC/Northern VA area. I've stopped following their progress ever since I left law enforcement a couple of years ago, but when I last checked they were constantly growing and becoming worse.

Yes, pointing out a an "illegal immigrant gang" that is giving the area big problems supports my argument that "illegal immigrant gangs" are a problem. Your point that statistcially whites commit just as much crime as illegals has no relevance on the fact that illegal immigrant gangs are a problem.

There is a very simple and basic breakdown in your syntax here. WRT the bolded part, NO, it does not support your contention. "Illegal immigrant gangs are a problem" litterally translates to a generalization that, in general, illegal immigrant gangs are a problem (when in fact they are no more a problem than other gangs controlling for income). For example, if there were 100 gangs in the U.S. and only one of them was an illegal immigrant gang, the MS-13, do you honestly think that you using the MS-13 example proves that "illegal immigrant gangs are a problem". Of course not. All it proves is that there is at least ONE illegal immigrant gang that is a problem, not that illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem.

Can you please point to a white gang that is at the same level as MS-13 in the Northern VA/DC area?

Yes, illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem, you can play around with semantics all day long, it doesn't change the fact that MS-13 is a huge problem in the area that I live in. Hispanic gangs and Black gangs are the biggest gang problems in this country, the hispanic gangs are generally comprised of illegals.

I would really like for you to show some proof that whites are just as likely to be in a gang as illegals are. Seeing as how there are many more whites in this country than illegals but somehow you don't hear of very many large white gangs I think you'll have a hard time proving that. The only reason I'm talking about whites btw is because you brought it up earlier in this thread.

I can't really help you if you don't understand that the litteral translation of your statement "Illegal immigrant gangs are a problem" generalizes illegal immigrants, inaccurately. You'll just have to accept this reality and move on, as MS-13 is merely one example.

And I said crime rates, no where did I mention that whites were just as likely to be in gangs as illegals. Your ignorance of controlling for factors like income, which you have little to no understanding of as seen by your dismissal of its merits, just further shows this is fruitless.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Do you honestly think anyone here was saying "there are no illegal immigrant gangs in the U.S."? db is right in that there is no more a problem with illegal immigrant gangs than with other non-illegals gangs. Pointing out one illegals DC metro gang does not in any way support any of your arguments here, which seem to be made up on the fly. If you didn't know that illegals do not commit crimes at higher rates than anyone else in the U.S. (controlling for the equalizer that is income), just man up about it.

Ok, lets go back to the beginning. db said "I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America". "

I pointed out an "illegal immigrant gang" that is a "huge problem in America". MS-13, an "illegal immigrant gang" is one of the biggest problems in the DC/Northern VA area. I've stopped following their progress ever since I left law enforcement a couple of years ago, but when I last checked they were constantly growing and becoming worse.

Yes, pointing out a an "illegal immigrant gang" that is giving the area big problems supports my argument that "illegal immigrant gangs" are a problem. Your point that statistcially whites commit just as much crime as illegals has no relevance on the fact that illegal immigrant gangs are a problem.

There is a very simple and basic breakdown in your syntax here. WRT the bolded part, NO, it does not support your contention. "Illegal immigrant gangs are a problem" litterally translates to a generalization that, in general, illegal immigrant gangs are a problem (when in fact they are no more a problem than other gangs controlling for income). For example, if there were 100 gangs in the U.S. and only one of them was an illegal immigrant gang, the MS-13, do you honestly think that you using the MS-13 example proves that "illegal immigrant gangs are a problem". Of course not. All it proves is that there is at least ONE illegal immigrant gang that is a problem, not that illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem.

Can you please point to a white gang that is at the same level as MS-13 in the Northern VA/DC area?

Yes, illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem, you can play around with semantics all day long, it doesn't change the fact that MS-13 is a huge problem in the area that I live in. Hispanic gangs and Black gangs are the biggest gang problems in this country, the hispanic gangs are generally comprised of illegals.

I would really like for you to show some proof that whites are just as likely to be in a gang as illegals are. Seeing as how there are many more whites in this country than illegals but somehow you don't hear of very many large white gangs I think you'll have a hard time proving that. The only reason I'm talking about whites btw is because you brought it up earlier in this thread.

I can't really help you if you don't understand that the litteral translation of your statement "Illegal immigrant gangs are a problem" generalizes illegal immigrants, inaccurately. You'll just have to accept this reality and move on, as MS-13 is merely one example.

And I said crime rates, no where did I mention that whites were just as likely to be in gangs as illegals. Your ignorance of controlling for factors like income, which you have little to no understanding of as seen by your dismissal of its merits, just further shows this is fruitless.

So ... are you telling us that MS-13 is basically the only gang in USA that is comprised of mostly illegal immigrants?

 

[db]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

Not to beat a dead horse, but really, that *is* a generalization. Makes it sound like they are everywhere. No doubt they are a problem in some places.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Funny thing is the biggest gangs in this country are home grown gangs born and raised in the US of A and all created in our prison system. Please keep scapegoating though.


As for latino gangs....18th street, MS, Sur 13, Norte 14, all started in the California adult and juvenile penal systems.

Huh?both you and db are denying the steroid like growth and strength of Mexican/Latin American Gangs?

I am not denying the growth of a gang movement if there is one to be documented. Don't put words in my mouth. The biggest gangs in the US are all gangs that originated in this country. Seems you are the one denying the fact that all those Mexican/Latin American gangs started up in low income neighborhoods or in our very own prison system here in the Untied States. In fact most of those gangs were originally formed by individuals who were already living here, spoke the language and were of second if not third generation families. It was the "assimilated ones" who started those gangs up in our increasingly over crowded prison system our out on the streets and recruited others came to the US and who were later deported and then...*surprise*.....they transplanted their American gangs back into their country of origin whatever it may of been.

Those who are now coming up here who are part of a gang were no doubt part of a gang established by someone who joined a gang in the US and later was deported from the US without proper notification of their gang activity back in the 80's-90's. Though I am pretty sure this has change recently and there is more communication going on back and fourth between our country and other nations. Gangs like MS-13 spread into Central America because governments there were just to busy dealing with other things like ummmmmm....civil wars, corruption, and extreme poverty and were completely caught off guard by this new influx of deported Americanized transplanted gangsters into their countries during the 80's-90's. Also MS-13 is not the biggest gang in this country. They have just spread out very quickly and have recently become very organized but they are not the largest gang in the US.

How many French Canadian Gangsters do we have problems with?

Europeans have brought over their criminal elements in the past and some still do. The Russian mob, Albanian street gangs in LA, Italian mob, Irish mob, etc...If you want some classic white gangsters pics scroll down the bottom of this post in this link as Chicago still has plenty of mainly "White" gangs so don't feel to bad there.

http://www.city-data.com/forum...457-white-gangs-6.html

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: babylon5
Everything you want to know about Illegal Immigrant Gangs, but afraid to ask

Today, the gang's extreme violence, vast reach and increasing sophistication have made it a top priority at the highest levels of law enforcement and political leadership from Washington to San Salvador.

In recent months, the departments of Justice and Homeland Security have launched a series of initiatives to confront the threat posed by the gang, also known as MS-13, which has between 30,000 and 50,000 members in half a dozen countries, including up to 10,000 members in the U.S., according to federal law enforcement estimates.

The FBI's creation of an MS-13 task force, the first nationwide effort targeting a single street gang, was ordered by Director Robert Mueller after several high-profile murders blamed on MS-13 in the suburbs of Washington. On Tuesday, Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency for the first time placed an MS-13 member on its most-wanted fugitive list. The Los Angeles gang member is suspected in a string of violent crimes.

In the United States, the gang has spread from California into 33 other states and the District of Columbia. Investigators say members are involved in murder, extortion, drug dealing and witness intimidation.

Now, law enforcement crackdowns in Honduras and El Salvador are helping reverse the flow. MS-13 gang members recruited in those countries are making their way to the U.S. and bolstering the gang's ranks from California to Maryland.

This north-south recycling of gang members has put intense pressure on Mexico, where MS-13 is involved in robbing immigrants and human trafficking, according to officials. "It has to be treated as a regional phenomenon because in Central America the borders are fading," said Magdalena Carral Cuevas, Mexico's top immigration official.

A brutal band born near MacArthur Park - As in it was created in the good old US of A on the streets of Los Angeles along with the Crips and Bloods and countless other gangs across other US cities.

 

[Drift3r]

**** double post ****

 

[aVoicefromthePast]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Funny thing is the biggest gangs in this country are home grown gangs born and raised in the US of A and all created in our prison system. Please keep scapegoating though.


As for latino gangs....18th street, MS, Sur 13, Norte 14, all started in the California adult and juvenile penal systems.

Huh?both you and db are denying the steroid like growth and strength of Mexican/Latin American Gangs?

How many French Canadian Gangsters do we have problems with?

Like those Dang, "Cajun/Acadienne" gangs in Louisiana...

 

[babylon5]

The term Illegal Immigrant Gangs does seem to generalize ALL Illegal Immigrants as criminals, breaking laws. Can you find a more sensitive inoffensive term that do not contain the words Illegal + Immigrant in it?

Maybe not the best, how about "Non-Naturalized US-Citizen Youth-Crime-Organization-Group".