Why do communities put up with gangs and the parents who create them?

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

They even infect small communities .... places that seem like the beautiful dream of "Small Town America"

Why do we allow them to grow and is there anything whatsoever that can be done about it

http://www.ci.mtnview.ca.us/ci...outh/gang_activity.asp
Fortunately, gang violence is not a frequent occurrence in Mountain View. However, there is some gang activity in and around Mountain View.Gangs are directly, or indirectly, responsible for a substantial percentage of violent and property crimes. Gangs threaten the well being of our children. It's a good idea for Mountain View residents, especially parents, to be alert to possible gang activities in their neighborhoods.

Most Silicon Valley gangs trace their roots to Los Angeles, Mexico, and Central or South America. These gangs concentrate in communities with the largest Hispanic populations, such as San Jose and Redwood City.

Like everyone, kids want to belong to a group to experience camaraderie and support. For some children, this means chess club or a basketball team. For more vulnerable or troubled kids, many of whom feel unconnected to their families, communities and school life, the groups they seek out are less wholesome. Gangs offer excitement, purpose, status, protection, acceptance, approval, money, belonging, love and respect. If kids aren't getting these elsewhere, gang life can be highly appealing

Look at these wonderful legal immigrants

Nobody cares and it will never change.
 

FallenHero

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2006
5,659
0
0
I stare back at them. Of course...they are usually staring me down for a reason.
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
10,575
292
126
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
3,572
0
0
Funny thing is the biggest gangs in this country are home grown gangs born and raised in the US of A and all created in our prison system. Please keep scapegoating though.


As for latino gangs....18th street, MS, Sur 13, Norte 14, all started in the California adult and juvenile penal systems.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,439
80
91
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

No the biggest problem is the illegal invasion of our country by a bunch of people who don't want to assimilate to our society.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Funny thing is the biggest gangs in this country are home grown gangs born and raised in the US of A and all created in our prison system. Please keep scapegoating though.


As for latino gangs....18th street, MS, Sur 13, Norte 14, all started in the California adult and juvenile penal systems.

Huh?both you and db are denying the steroid like growth and strength of Mexican/Latin American Gangs?

How many French Canadian Gangsters do we have problems with?

 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Funny thing is the biggest gangs in this country are home grown gangs born and raised in the US of A and all created in our prison system. Please keep scapegoating though.


As for latino gangs....18th street, MS, Sur 13, Norte 14, all started in the California adult and juvenile penal systems.

Huh?both you and db are denying the steroid like growth and strength of Mexican/Latin American Gangs?

How many French Canadian Gangsters do we have problems with?

LOL, a French gangster, lol.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.

What? Do you know anything about MS-13?

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Drift3r
Funny thing is the biggest gangs in this country are home grown gangs born and raised in the US of A and all created in our prison system. Please keep scapegoating though.


As for latino gangs....18th street, MS, Sur 13, Norte 14, all started in the California adult and juvenile penal systems.

Huh?both you and db are denying the steroid like growth and strength of Mexican/Latin American Gangs?

How many French Canadian Gangsters do we have problems with?

LOL, a French gangster, lol.

:D You know why I put that line in there right?
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.


Well, it is great to have the poorest humans around sneak into your country illegally and start raping communities and selling drugs and guns and prostitutes and having more weapons than the local police force
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.

What? Do you know anything about MS-13?

The point flew completely over your head.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.


Well, it is great to have the poorest humans around sneak into your country illegally and start raping communities and selling drugs and guns and prostitutes and having more weapons than the local police force

A horrid oversimplification not based on any reliable statistics.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.

What? Do you know anything about MS-13?

The point flew completely over your head.

Then maybe you need to make your point a little more clear. MS-13 is full of illegals, they are a huge problem in this area, they are also out to kill cops. Its pretty damn easy to see the correlation between illegal immigrants and gangs like MS-13, assuming you live in the real world.

 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.

What? Do you know anything about MS-13?

The point flew completely over your head.

Then maybe you need to make your point a little more clear. MS-13 is full of illegals, they are a huge problem in this area, they are also out to kill cops. Its pretty damn easy to see the correlation between illegal immigrants and gangs like MS-13, assuming you live in the real world.

Like I said, the point flew completely over your head. Your single example does not in any way validate your asseration of a correlation between illegal immigration and crime rates. When controlling for income, illegal immigrant crime is no different in frequency than crimes committed by whites.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.

What? Do you know anything about MS-13?

The point flew completely over your head.

Then maybe you need to make your point a little more clear. MS-13 is full of illegals, they are a huge problem in this area, they are also out to kill cops. Its pretty damn easy to see the correlation between illegal immigrants and gangs like MS-13, assuming you live in the real world.

Like I said, the point flew completely over your head. Your single example does not in any way validate your asseration of a correlation between illegal immigration and crime rates. When controlling for income, illegal immigrant crime is no different in frequency than crimes committed by whites.

Apparently my point flew right over your head. db claimed that he hasn't seen a problem with gangs full of illegals in the US, I pointed out a shining example of an illegal gang that is giving the DC metro area huge problems. Would you like to point out a white gang that is giving the DC metro area problems at the level that MS-13 is? Saying that whites commit crimes too doesn't change the fact that MS-13 is a huge problem in this area.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: db
Originally posted by: dahunan
Illegal Immigrant GANGS are a huge problem in America..

I've lived in small communities (Ballwin, MO) and now in Los Angeles.
I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America".

Sounds like yet another attempt to scare people about "illegals" in order to support/elect those who want to get rid of them, when in fact the basis of the problem is *Illegal Employment*.

Then you must be pretty damn sheltered. MS-13 is HUGE in the Washington Metro area.

In reality, illegal immigration and crime have no more correlation than white males (at the same income) and crime. Assuming you read books.

What? Do you know anything about MS-13?

The point flew completely over your head.

Then maybe you need to make your point a little more clear. MS-13 is full of illegals, they are a huge problem in this area, they are also out to kill cops. Its pretty damn easy to see the correlation between illegal immigrants and gangs like MS-13, assuming you live in the real world.

Like I said, the point flew completely over your head. Your single example does not in any way validate your asseration of a correlation between illegal immigration and crime rates. When controlling for income, illegal immigrant crime is no different in frequency than crimes committed by whites.

Apparently my point flew right over your head. db claimed that he hasn't seen a problem with gangs full of illegals in the US, I pointed out a shining example of an illegal gang that is giving the DC metro area huge problems. Would you like to point out a white gang that is giving the DC metro area problems at the level that MS-13 is? Saying that whites commit crimes too doesn't change the fact that MS-13 is a huge problem in this area.

Do you honestly think anyone here was saying "there are no illegal immigrant gangs in the U.S."? db is right in that there is no more a problem with illegal immigrant gangs than with other non-illegals gangs. Pointing out one illegals DC metro gang does not in any way support any of your arguments here, which seem to be made up on the fly. If you didn't know that illegals do not commit crimes at higher rates than anyone else in the U.S. (controlling for the equalizer that is income), just man up about it.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Do you honestly think anyone here was saying "there are no illegal immigrant gangs in the U.S."? db is right in that there is no more a problem with illegal immigrant gangs than with other non-illegals gangs. Pointing out one illegals DC metro gang does not in any way support any of your arguments here, which seem to be made up on the fly. If you didn't know that illegals do not commit crimes at higher rates than anyone else in the U.S. (controlling for the equalizer that is income), just man up about it.

Ok, lets go back to the beginning. db said "I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America". "

I pointed out an "illegal immigrant gang" that is a "huge problem in America". MS-13, an "illegal immigrant gang" is one of the biggest problems in the DC/Northern VA area. I've stopped following their progress ever since I left law enforcement a couple of years ago, but when I last checked they were constantly growing and becoming worse.

Yes, pointing out a an "illegal immigrant gang" that is giving the area big problems supports my argument that "illegal immigrant gangs" are a problem. Your point that statistcially whites commit just as much crime as illegals has no relevance on the fact that illegal immigrant gangs are a problem.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Do you honestly think anyone here was saying "there are no illegal immigrant gangs in the U.S."? db is right in that there is no more a problem with illegal immigrant gangs than with other non-illegals gangs. Pointing out one illegals DC metro gang does not in any way support any of your arguments here, which seem to be made up on the fly. If you didn't know that illegals do not commit crimes at higher rates than anyone else in the U.S. (controlling for the equalizer that is income), just man up about it.

Ok, lets go back to the beginning. db said "I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America". "

I pointed out an "illegal immigrant gang" that is a "huge problem in America". MS-13, an "illegal immigrant gang" is one of the biggest problems in the DC/Northern VA area. I've stopped following their progress ever since I left law enforcement a couple of years ago, but when I last checked they were constantly growing and becoming worse.

Yes, pointing out a an "illegal immigrant gang" that is giving the area big problems supports my argument that "illegal immigrant gangs" are a problem. Your point that statistcially whites commit just as much crime as illegals has no relevance on the fact that illegal immigrant gangs are a problem.

There is a very simple and basic breakdown in your syntax here. WRT the bolded part, NO, it does not support your contention. "Illegal immigrant gangs are a problem" litterally translates to a generalization that, in general, illegal immigrant gangs are a problem (when in fact they are no more a problem than other gangs controlling for income). For example, if there were 100 gangs in the U.S. and only one of them was an illegal immigrant gang, the MS-13, do you honestly think that you using the MS-13 example proves that "illegal immigrant gangs are a problem". Of course not. All it proves is that there is at least ONE illegal immigrant gang that is a problem, not that illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem.
 

babylon5

Golden Member
Dec 11, 2000
1,363
1
0
Everything you want to know about Illegal Immigrant Gangs, but afraid to ask


Today, the gang's extreme violence, vast reach and increasing sophistication have made it a top priority at the highest levels of law enforcement and political leadership from Washington to San Salvador.

In recent months, the departments of Justice and Homeland Security have launched a series of initiatives to confront the threat posed by the gang, also known as MS-13, which has between 30,000 and 50,000 members in half a dozen countries, including up to 10,000 members in the U.S., according to federal law enforcement estimates.

The FBI's creation of an MS-13 task force, the first nationwide effort targeting a single street gang, was ordered by Director Robert Mueller after several high-profile murders blamed on MS-13 in the suburbs of Washington. On Tuesday, Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency for the first time placed an MS-13 member on its most-wanted fugitive list. The Los Angeles gang member is suspected in a string of violent crimes.

In the United States, the gang has spread from California into 33 other states and the District of Columbia. Investigators say members are involved in murder, extortion, drug dealing and witness intimidation.

Now, law enforcement crackdowns in Honduras and El Salvador are helping reverse the flow. MS-13 gang members recruited in those countries are making their way to the U.S. and bolstering the gang's ranks from California to Maryland.

This north-south recycling of gang members has put intense pressure on Mexico, where MS-13 is involved in robbing immigrants and human trafficking, according to officials. "It has to be treated as a regional phenomenon because in Central America the borders are fading," said Magdalena Carral Cuevas, Mexico's top immigration official.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb

Do you honestly think anyone here was saying "there are no illegal immigrant gangs in the U.S."? db is right in that there is no more a problem with illegal immigrant gangs than with other non-illegals gangs. Pointing out one illegals DC metro gang does not in any way support any of your arguments here, which seem to be made up on the fly. If you didn't know that illegals do not commit crimes at higher rates than anyone else in the U.S. (controlling for the equalizer that is income), just man up about it.

Ok, lets go back to the beginning. db said "I don't see these "illegal immigrant gangs" that are a "huge problem in America". "

I pointed out an "illegal immigrant gang" that is a "huge problem in America". MS-13, an "illegal immigrant gang" is one of the biggest problems in the DC/Northern VA area. I've stopped following their progress ever since I left law enforcement a couple of years ago, but when I last checked they were constantly growing and becoming worse.

Yes, pointing out a an "illegal immigrant gang" that is giving the area big problems supports my argument that "illegal immigrant gangs" are a problem. Your point that statistcially whites commit just as much crime as illegals has no relevance on the fact that illegal immigrant gangs are a problem.

There is a very simple and basic breakdown in your syntax here. WRT the bolded part, NO, it does not support your contention. "Illegal immigrant gangs are a problem" litterally translates to a generalization that, in general, illegal immigrant gangs are a problem (when in fact they are no more a problem than other gangs controlling for income). For example, if there were 100 gangs in the U.S. and only one of them was an illegal immigrant gang, the MS-13, do you honestly think that you using the MS-13 example proves that "illegal immigrant gangs are a problem". Of course not. All it proves is that there is at least ONE illegal immigrant gang that is a problem, not that illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem.

Can you please point to a white gang that is at the same level as MS-13 in the Northern VA/DC area?

Yes, illegal immigrant gangs in general are a problem, you can play around with semantics all day long, it doesn't change the fact that MS-13 is a huge problem in the area that I live in. Hispanic gangs and Black gangs are the biggest gang problems in this country, the hispanic gangs are generally comprised of illegals.

I would really like for you to show some proof that whites are just as likely to be in a gang as illegals are. Seeing as how there are many more whites in this country than illegals but somehow you don't hear of very many large white gangs I think you'll have a hard time proving that. The only reason I'm talking about whites btw is because you brought it up earlier in this thread.




 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Gangs are a result of, among other things, disaffected, poor populations/sub-communities who form the gangs because it fills members' needs better than other options.

A way to fight gangs is to fight the poverty, broken homes and other problems.

You see 'gangs' in many poor third world countries up to near-government levels, such as the warlords in Afghanistan; in the American old west sometimes; and imported to the US as well as native from our own disaffected populations such as the Bloods and Crips.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
I think that you are trying to make this more complicated than it is. From a law enforcement perspective, if the biggest gang in your area is comprised of illegals, that means that you have a problem with an illegal immigrant gang. Controlling for income blah blah blah is great and all, but it doesn't change the fact that the problem is a gang full of illegal immigrants, not the gang full of poor white immigrants in some alternate universe where whites are the poor, underclass illegal immigrants.
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,918
2,883
136
Originally posted by: Craig234
Gangs are a result of, among other things, disaffected, poor populations/sub-communities who form the gangs because it fills members' needs better than other options.

A way to fight gangs is to fight the poverty, broken homes and other problems.

You see 'gangs' in many poor third world countries up to near-government levels, such as the warlords in Afghanistan; in the American old west sometimes; and imported to the US as well as native from our own disaffected populations such as the Bloods and Crips.


For once I agree with you Craig.