Why do/are German Cars crap-out/die/unreliable?

[MJinZ]

They build the best cars on Earth supposedly, so what is it about them that makes them unreliable or start falling apart after a certain age?

 

[shortylickens]

They build the best cars on Earth supposedly, so what is it about them that makes them unreliable or start falling apart after a certain age?

I'm gonna go with my previous theory that they got greedy (like American corporations) and had to figure out a way to make more money. They settled on planned obsolescence (like American corporations) and now they are just living off their old reputation (like ............).

Was gonna get a BMW, but I think I'd rather just test drive one every few months and own a Japanese car.

 

[BW86]

over engineering?

My mom's '98 740il hasn't given us any real problems and my '99 a4 has been pretty reliable for a year so far.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Because people can't be bothered to maintain them. I have owned several old German cars and none have been unreliable, even the ones with over 150,000 miles and 25 years on them.

The biggest issue is that they start out as expensive luxury cars and because they are status symbols, those who can actually afford to take care of the cars also tend to sell them every 2-4 years and buy a new status symbol. Since a used car is not as much of a status symbol as a new car, the depreciation for a 2-4 year old car is pretty heavy and this makes used versions of these cars accessible to people who either can't afford the maintenance or who don't want to spend the sort of money commensurate with maintaining a $60,000 car when it "only" cost them $19,000 used, so maintenance gets neglected or people cheap out on parts. Then these second owners sell the cars at even lower prices and the cycle continues.

Basically, by the time most German cars have 100,000 miles, they've had 2-3 owners and have had routine and required maintenance neglected. That's why older German cars tend to be perceived as unreliable.

ZV

 

[PricklyPete]

Because people can't be bothered to maintain them. I have owned several old German cars and none have been unreliable, even the ones with over 150,000 miles and 25 years on them.

The biggest issue is that they start out as expensive luxury cars and because they are status symbols, those who can actually afford to take care of the cars also tend to sell them every 2-4 years and buy a new status symbol. Since a used car is not as much of a status symbol as a new car, the depreciation for a 2-4 year old car is pretty heavy and this makes used versions of these cars accessible to people who either can't afford the maintenance or who don't want to spend the sort of money commensurate with maintaining a $60,000 car when it "only" cost them $19,000 used, so maintenance gets neglected or people cheap out on parts. Then these second owners sell the cars at even lower prices and the cycle continues.

Basically, by the time most German cars have 100,000 miles, they've had 2-3 owners and have had routine and required maintenance neglected. That's why older German cars tend to be perceived as unreliable.

ZV

Agreed 100%.

 

[amdhunter]

My GLi seems pretty tight to this day. Besides a shifter linkage problem, it's been rather problem free.

 

[thescreensavers]

My family had a 07 Q7 till Feb of 10, No mechanical Problems at all, a few problems with the software of the MMI system though.

And some stuff costs alot. Brake job was like 1600 bucks for 4 wheels, I looked up parts afterward and it was for 1200 Rotors/pads. Though I did not look at many brands.

 

[reallyscrued]

Maintenance. German cars are built to work at a tighter spec than other cars, need to be maintained religiously. Can't afford to maintain the car? Don't buy the car. There's a reason why the resale values are lower.

 

[shortylickens]

Maintenance. German cars are built to work at a tighter spec than other cars, need to be maintained religiously. Can't afford to maintain the car? Don't buy the car. There's a reason why the resale values are lower.

So if I got a dude to inspect it before hand, I'd be alright?

 

[TehMac]

I'm gonna go with my previous theory that they got greedy (like American corporations) and had to figure out a way to make more money. They settled on planned obsolescence (like American corporations) and now they are just living off their old reputation (like ............).

Was gonna get a BMW, but I think I'd rather just test drive one every few months and own a Japanese car.

"planned obsolescence," lol

you sound like my crackpot neighbor.

 

[shortylickens]

"planned obsolescence," lol

you sound like my crackpot neighbor.

Perhaps, but my communications skills are far superior to yours. Especially reading and writing.
You'll notice the words "my theory". Or maybe not.
I'm guessing not.

 

[Kirby]

Just broke 130k miles on my 2000 Jetta, no major problems yet.

*knocks on wood

 

[McWatt]

Because you're buying BMW instead of Mercedes?

I know of a few 1980 Mercedes diesel cars with >300k miles and none of them have had major problems. They've got original engines, transmissions, brakes (this surprises me), and pretty much everything else. Their vacuum systems can get iffy after twenty years, which makes the automatic locks operate very slowly.

 

[MJinZ]

Because people can't be bothered to maintain them. I have owned several old German cars and none have been unreliable, even the ones with over 150,000 miles and 25 years on them.

The biggest issue is that they start out as expensive luxury cars and because they are status symbols, those who can actually afford to take care of the cars also tend to sell them every 2-4 years and buy a new status symbol. Since a used car is not as much of a status symbol as a new car, the depreciation for a 2-4 year old car is pretty heavy and this makes used versions of these cars accessible to people who either can't afford the maintenance or who don't want to spend the sort of money commensurate with maintaining a $60,000 car when it "only" cost them $19,000 used, so maintenance gets neglected or people cheap out on parts. Then these second owners sell the cars at even lower prices and the cycle continues.

Basically, by the time most German cars have 100,000 miles, they've had 2-3 owners and have had routine and required maintenance neglected. That's why older German cars tend to be perceived as unreliable.

ZV

Perception can't be all of it, but some of it I'm sure.

There must be something else to it.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Perception can't be all of it, but some of it I'm sure.

There must be something else to it.

There is more to it. There's the fact that improperly and/or indifferently maintained cars actually are less reliable, but the actual cause is the improper and/or indifferent maintenance and not the car's country of origin.

ZV

 

[Perknose]

There is more to it. There's the fact that improperly and/or indifferently maintained cars actually are less reliable, but the actual cause is the improper and/or indifferent maintenance and not the car's country of origin.

ZV

All that ZV said here and before, and the fact that parts are pricey and labor costs tend to be higher, often due to intricacy of design.

 

[DivideBYZero]

What ZV said, and troll thread is obvious.

 

[Bignate603]

In my opinion it's because they tend to have designs that are more complex. While that complexity makes them extremely nice to drive when they're functioning perfectly it makes the maintenance more involved and costly than your typical japanese or american car.

 

[KIAman]

My personal experience, German cars have been just as reliable than any other cars. Me and my siblings all have German cars while my parents have exclusively Japanese cars while both sets of grandparents domestic cars. Siblings and I have not been into the shop any more or less than parents. Grandparents seem to go to the shop somewhat more often but I attribute that to bad driving habits and keeping their old cars (10+ years).

Also, interesting statement about "best cars in the world." There is a book called "The Machine that Changed the Word," that makes for very interesting reading. It's about Toyota

 

[MJinZ]

There is more to it. There's the fact that improperly and/or indifferently maintained cars actually are less reliable, but the actual cause is the improper and/or indifferent maintenance and not the car's country of origin.

ZV

Uh, I don't think so. Think American cheap cars of the past decade. It wasn't a matter of "no being maintained", they were just shit. Think Toyota of today. The interiors and build quality is perfectly shit. Why do 2GR-FEs leak oil? Because Toyota used a degrading vvt-i oil line part, when Lexus ES's use a metal part. I have more recalls on my Camry than I can count on one hand.

I just don't get how German car stuff like electronics and parts that never die in American or Asian cars just die so predictably in a German car.

Anyway, see the BMW X5 thread the other guy started (he went from Corolla S to an Acura RDX) that was the basis of this thread.

 

[ponyo]

Uh, I don't think so. Think American cheap cars of the past decade. It wasn't a matter of "no being maintained", they were just shit. Think Toyota of today. The interiors and build quality is perfectly shit. Why do 2GR-FEs leak oil? Because Toyota used a degrading vvt-i oil line part, when Lexus ES's use a metal part. I have more recalls on my Camry than I can count on one hand.

I just don't get how German car stuff like electronics and parts that never die in American or Asian cars just die so predictably in a German car.

Anyway, see the BMW X5 thread the other guy started (he went from Corolla S to an Acura RDX) that was the basis of this thread.

That BMW X5 guy proves Zv's point. He bought that used X5 from CarMax with nearly 100,000 miles on it. What kind of maintenance you think that car had when he bought it? What kind of maintenance do you think he's done since he bought it? I bet he's just fixing stuff that's breaking after having done zero maintenance on it.

 

[CurseTheSky]

This goes back to the age-old debate of "<insert car manufacturer / region>'s vehicles always break down / die at 100k / cost more than the car is worth to maintain!"

Nearly all properly maintained, modern vehicles are good for 100k miles. Most are good for 200k. Many still will make it to 250-300k. Properly maintained means doing it by the book, not cheaping out on parts or letting things slide, replacing normal wear-and-tear items, and not doing anything extreme or stupid with the vehicle.

The cars that don't fall into this category - the ones that have inherent problems that will crop up at some point - are usually well known and posted all over the Internet. Ford's current truck motors (V10 Triton IIRC, possibly the V8 and diesel as well) are an example of this. The last generation (or was it the gen before that?) of Toyota Tacomas were infamous for rusting to pieces.

The problem with this is the properly maintained part. The maintenance schedules and costs vary greatly from vehicle to vehicle and company to company. People that neglect to keep up with the scheduled maintenance are just digging their vehicles an early grave.

 

[zCypher]

Everything I wanted to say + a lot more has already been said... but, I do notice a lot of VWs with lights that don't work properly.

I'd also like to add that doing preventative maintenance instead of fixing it after it breaks can probably help too.

I was neglectful and irresponsible with my cars, and when I finally added up how much it costs, I changed my habits. Strange, I haven't had car trouble since then, even with "crappy" cars.

 

[sisq0kidd]

My sister's '01 C320 had a lot of problems right out of the gate (bought brand new, first year <- yeah part of the problem). The rear window shade would randomly get stuck. The passenger window literally fell out of it's socket numerous times even after the dealer recalled it and "fixed" it. Her keyless entry stopped working (even after battery was replaced) after just 2 years. Her car would make a grinding sound every time she would turn her steering wheel while driving (after 3 years).

All this even though she took her car in for all Mercedes service intervals.

So yes, by my personal experience, I do believe that german cars at that particular point in time were more prone to problems than your average American/Japanese/Korean cars. Her '10 C300 seems to be much better though (knocks on wood).

 

[rdp6]

ZV and others have told the truth here: maintenance is key to all makes; some are high maintenance and some are low; each have their benefits and penalties. I think that German engineering speaks volumes about their companies' (and societies') values; it is good to live with a German car in good repair.

This morning on my way to work my odometer read 66668 miles. 2007 Passat 2.0T, no mechanical issues other than hesitant to start in extreme cold. Fun for a mid-size sedan, and very comfortable. I think it was a bargain at ~22K. Maintenance costs are higher than domestics, but scheduled events are likely less frequent. I expect overall costs are higher. Synthetic oil, premium gas, bigger rotors, etc. But it really is more car per wheel than most. I love this car.