Why didn't they make USB 3.0 reversible in the 1st place (instead of version C)?! PIC

[Ichinisan]

No. I'm saying that the USB logo is on the wrong side, which has nothing to do with that. It can't be visual aesthetics either because the Lightning end is reversible and the logo can stay behind the device no matter what side they slapped it on. It's a simple case of them f**king up.

I have a suspicion it could have been intentional so people will have a bad time with the USB connection and feel that it's frustrating and clunky.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

USB PITA? I guess no one here has had to connect masses of VGA and DVI cables.

 

[Howard]

USB PITA? I guess no one here has had to connect masses of VGA and DVI cables.

Boo-hoo. I had to connect a few TRS connections last week.

 

[Ichinisan]

Boo-hoo. I had to connect a few TRS connections last week.

TRS is as easy as it gets. Failed attempt at sarcasm?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Amphenol connectors are pretty fun too. 50 pins.

 

[CZroe]

Centronics.

 

[alkemyst]

Tech support issues I think drove this.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I could see that.

user: "Hi I'm trying to plug my mouse in but it wont go in"
tech support: "Try turning it around"
user: "I tried that"
tech support: "Try it again"
user: "Wow it worked! You guys are geniuses, I don't know how you do it!"
tech support: "Glad it worked, have a nice day"

Having previously worked in tech support, being able to drag an icon from one side of the desktop to the other also constitutes being a genius.

Those were the fun calls though, can't complain. Quick and simple, and user very happy. :biggrin:

 

[Howard]

TRS is as easy as it gets. Failed attempt at sarcasm?

I'm not sure, it might've worked.

 

[ViRGE]

Desktops and notebooks that can spare the room will still have some A ports for 1.1 and 2.0 devices even when C has reached top market penetration. Heck, the Logitech G15 v2 had a USB 1.1 hub inside when it was their current high-end gaming keyboard a few short years ago!

Short term versus long term. During the transition period you'll have ports of both sizes on sufficiently large devices (think: Parallel and Serial ports alongside USB ports). But it is a transition period, and when it's over you'll simply have C everywhere. At that point you'll simply get told to get a new cable or adapter as appropriate.

were they ever necessary?

It depends on who you ask. There was concern when USB was introduced that if the cables were symmetrical, people would accidentally be hooking up hosts to hosts and devices to devices (rather than devices to hosts). It's the same concern for why parallel ports used DB-25 on the host side and micro-ribbon on the device side. I think more than anything else, improved controllers and intelligent sensing have diminished the risks.

 

[Howard]

There was concern when USB was introduced that if the cables were symmetrical, people would accidentally be hooking up hosts to hosts and devices to devices (rather than devices to hosts).

This is something that software can't solve or that hardware can't allow?

 

[ViRGE]

This is something that software can't solve or that hardware can't allow?

The software could gracefully fail. The hardware may not enjoy having power sent where it doesn't belong. USB Type-C resolves this by having a sense pin to figure out what's going on and to prevent the connection as necessary.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Another thing they should also change is the amperage standard, USB ports should provide a bit more power and it should be a standard for them to provide at least nn power, and it should be a standard for devices to only draw that amount or less.

There's many times where I used devices that rely on USB power but they don't work on all computers because some computers limit the current more than others. Had a portable hard drive like that, ended up having to wire in a 5v wall wart so I can inject more power into it's USB cable. Kinda hackish but it did work.



A proper power standard that devices and computers must follow would prevent hacks like this. :biggrin:


Though despite the complaints that we all have about certain aspects of USB such as the fact that it somehow has 3 sides, it's probably one of the best computer connectors ever due to it's versatility and long life span. Hopefully 3.0 will have a life just as long and they wont just go crazy with 4.0 etc... and keep changing the connector. As long as Mozilla is not in charge of it we should be ok. They'd release a new connector ever 2 weeks. :awe:

 

[Ichinisan]

Another thing they should also change is the amperage standard, USB ports should provide a bit more power and it should be a standard for them to provide at least nn power, and it should be a standard for devices to only draw that amount or less.

There's many times where I used devices that rely on USB power but they don't work on all computers because some computers limit the current more than others. Had a portable hard drive like that, ended up having to wire in a 5v wall wart so I can inject more power into it's USB cable. Kinda hackish but it did work.



A proper power standard that devices and computers must follow would prevent hacks like this. :biggrin:


Though despite the complaints that we all have about certain aspects of USB such as the fact that it somehow has 3 sides, it's probably one of the best computer connectors ever due to it's versatility and long life span. Hopefully 3.0 will have a life just as long and they wont just go crazy with 4.0 etc... and keep changing the connector. As long as Mozilla is not in charge of it we should be ok.

They often include a dual-USB cord to draw another .5a from another USB port.

 

[CZroe]

Another thing they should also change is the amperage standard, USB ports should provide a bit more power and it should be a standard for them to provide at least nn power, and it should be a standard for devices to only draw that amount or less.

There's many times where I used devices that rely on USB power but they don't work on all computers because some computers limit the current more than others. Had a portable hard drive like that, ended up having to wire in a 5v wall wart so I can inject more power into it's USB cable. Kinda hackish but it did work.



A proper power standard that devices and computers must follow would prevent hacks like this.


Though despite the complaints that we all have about certain aspects of USB such as the fact that it somehow has 3 sides, it's probably one of the best computer connectors ever due to it's versatility and long life span. Hopefully 3.0 will have a life just as long and they wont just go crazy with 4.0 etc... and keep changing the connector. As long as Mozilla is not in charge of it we should be ok. They'd release a new connector ever 2 weeks. :awe:

Uhh, it does come with signaling for much more amperage. If you read about it, they intend for you to charge your laptop through it, same as your tablet. Think of it as USB Forum's version of MagSafe.

 

[bearxor]

Seems relevant to this discussion:
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/08/15/new-lightning-cable-reversible-usb/

 

[ViRGE]

Seems relevant to this discussion:
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/08/15/new-lightning-cable-reversible-usb/

That seems wrong. The "male" part of the Type-C connector is in the receptacle.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/usb-type-c-dual-row-receptacle.jpg

The cable should be female. Also, the Type-C connector is rounded; it's not a hard rectangle.

 

[CZroe]

Seems relevant to this discussion:
http://www.macrumors.com/2014/08/15/new-lightning-cable-reversible-usb/

Interesting. The contacts must be on some kind of flexible substrate that can flip to the other side when under tension. I'm sure this is something the developed as a result of the flexible iWatch prototype with the continuous wrap-around display that was described as being a tensioned metallic band (much like a slap-bracelet).

 

[CZroe]

That seems wrong. The "male" part of the Type-C connector is in the receptacle.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/usb-type-c-dual-row-receptacle.jpg

The cable should be female. Also, the Type-C connector is rounded; it's not a hard rectangle.

It's obvioisly a reversible A connector.

 

[ViRGE]

It's obvioisly a reversible A connector.

There's no such thing as a reversible A connector.

That's a standard A connector before the plastic insert that goes below the pins has been installed.

 

[CZroe]

There's no such thing as a reversible A connector.

That's a standard A connector before the plastic insert that goes below the pins has been installed.

There WASN'T a such thing, but now there is (if this article is true). That's why it's news. Durr.

 

[ViRGE]

There WASN'T a such thing, but now there is (if this article is true). That's why it's news. Durr.

Except such a thing is functionally impossible both for technical and legal reasons. The pins aren't at the center of a USB A-Type plug/socket - they're slightly offset so that each end is a perfect half and can mate together - and the USB IF doesn't allow members to go off and invent new connectors.

Someone in China saw a batch of unfinished USB cables and has completely misinterpreted what they saw.

 

[Eug]

USB PITA? I guess no one here has had to connect masses of VGA and DVI cables.

Except there you usually just do it occasionally. That's unlike many USB cables.

I actually liked the screw in attachments of VGA because once screwed in, they never fell out. But no I wasn't attaching 100 at a time.

 

[CZroe]

Except such a thing is functionally impossible both for technical and legal reasons. The pins aren't at the center of a USB A-Type plug/socket - they're slightly offset so that each end is a perfect half and can mate together - and the USB IF doesn't allow members to go off and invent new connectors.

Someone in China saw a batch of unfinished USB cables and has completely misinterpreted what they saw.

You are ignoring the patent mentioned in the article and Apple's past history of violating USB IF standards.

Examples:
-USB logo on the wrong side of microUSB B to Lightning adapter.
-deliberately gimping Mac USB power output to sell more Firewire IEEE1394 "iSight" cameras (couldn't power most webcams even within 500mA USB spec)
-ignoring USB charging specifications and making a proprietary signaling standard for high-drain iDevices to charge off of USB host ports (iPad), then never adopting the official signalling standard.

Also, there are MANY violations made by big manufacturers, like sheath-less USB "keys" and folding SD cards that fit directly into the USB slot.

Yes, it's centered, but it's obviously flexible and under tension in order to work. It probably uses flexible circuitry tech developed for the slap-bracelet style iWatch.

 

[bearxor]

That seems wrong. The "male" part of the Type-C connector is in the receptacle.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/usb-type-c-dual-row-receptacle.jpg

The cable should be female. Also, the Type-C connector is rounded; it's not a hard rectangle.

Yes, I didn't post it as to say "Apple is already making these reversible C cables!'

More like Apple is experimenting with making a reversible A connector.

This doesn't seem impossible at all. In fact, this seems extremely brilliant. You make a thin piece in the middle that flexes in to shape regardless of which way you plug the cable in and you just print the contacts on both sides so that it's reversible. This isn't really too far off from those stick USB memory sticks that are basically just printed circuit boards.

This doesn't seem functionally impossible nor does it seem like it would break compatibility whatsoever.