why did we lose vietnam?

[heartsurgeon]

The South Vietnamese army was grossly incompetent, and nothing could save them. Would have just delayed the end

What factual evidence do you base this on? It's certainly going to doom you efforts at self-defense if you don't have any bullets....

 

[Helenihi]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

The South Vietnamese army was grossly incompetent, and nothing could save them. Would have just delayed the end

What factual evidence do you base this on? It's certainly going to doom you efforts at self-defense if you don't have any bullets....

The fact that South Vietnamese army units could never win any serious engagements on thir own? There are numerous accounts of South Vietnamese units facing much smaller NVA/VC units and either losing, or simply retreating/refusing to fight. The generals in charge were corrupt and incompetent. Deng and his successors purposely appointed incompetent but loyal people to high positions int he military.

And they were well supplied, we were flooding them with money and equipment, they were better equippred than the NVA. Until their units would surrender/retreat and allow the NVA/VC to pick up their weapons and equipment.

 

[vanln]

I hope everyone beware of VC ( Viet cong ) is around on most of American political forum . Their mission is misleading american people about Vietnam war . They are well train to do their job . They could be hundred of them working 24/24 on politic forum. Some time they will post some " innocent topic" and their comrade ( or himselft with difference nick name) will come in to post some "stupid comment about Vietnam war " . Some time they play dual agent meaning one is with and one is against . Of course at the end they still mislead American people . This kind of game may be is new to american people but they use it a lot in vietnamese politic forum . One nick name could be ten guys work on it , 3 to 4 guy think and write . Other will be busy search on google for news, books to support what they said .
After the fall of Saigon , the world are seeing the real face of "communist" . As you see the communist is falling a part . Those stupid VC still believe they won the war . And they are trying to make other American believe it. At least they try to make people believe they are better then south VN (Vietnam) army force. And they make people believe they liberate south VN . Well thank for the liberation , people die after the war more then during the war . And Vietnamese don't need their liberation . All vietnamese need communist die go to hell ASAP

The set up of american : OIL
In 1974 , South vietname announced they found oil in their sea . The south Vietnamese president make a big announce in TV . Soviet, china jump in . North VN with their support start to build up military and heading south to see oil (deep in the sea , until now they still don't see them yet) . Amercain retrieved , south VN Amy force not even fight a single battle . VC walk in south without efforce . Victory in dream compare with 1968 they paid in real price . 1968 , only police of south VN fight with more then 10,000 VC
At that time South VN army force was the most poweful army in Asia . If American didn't force them stay at the border Vietnam north/south . South VN force could march in capital "Hanoi" in 1 month
American lost the war ? No American abandoned south Vietnam to make a new friend . Mr chinese
After the war , Vietnam communist must decided who is their best allias : Chinese or soviet . Amercain well knew VC will join Soviet . The reason is simple their top leader has a son in law is a soviet man . Communist force was broken . Communist vietnam is falled in to the trap . They celerbrated their victory , invited their comrades from europ . Communist European came over . They compared . WTF on earth south vietnam was capitalist was so rich , their civilization so high . And North Vietnam was so poor and dump...And europeancommunist was also poor They bought any thinks made from USA in south Vietnam . They loved , quality items , isn't it . Thousand of european communist walking in saigon with suprise. Poeple in Saigon call them cheap white boys . They bargain to the lowest price . Bring home a piece of junk left over from american with happy face
European start thinking over about communist . As you see they abandone the communist ideal in 1991

Back to Mr Chinese . They was mad comrad VC . Chinese smart enough to ask cambodien attack south vietnam and chinese army with 200,000 soldier attack north vietnam in 1978 . American intend left alot of weapon in secret place . South Vietnamese army force not even know about those . But VC did have the map??Why ??
With those weapon VC conquered cambot in 1 week . In North VC barbecue 200,000 chinese soldiers with american weapon . It force chinese make allias with american
Well with those weapon Vc can barbecue 200,000 chinese soldiers and cambodien army . If those weapon can be use by south army force . Can we won Vietnam war ?
Most tanker use in cambod was american tank and driver was former south vietnamese army force
Chinese make a mistake . They know well how much weapon VC have . Because they are giving them those weapon . Plus soviet give VC weapon go throught China . So chinese know the number
But they lost the war because they don't know american intent left weapon for vc


All word about VC ( viet cong ) is the invincible is a lie . They can not won the war with south vietnam police force . How can they compare with south VN army force . Their image is an invincible in the televion . We are know well they paid a lot of money for ....
The true is the true
Do not try to change it
If you are not Vietnamese
don't even think about talk nice for VC . Because you don't know them , you don't live with them . So don't talk . Ask Vietnamese refugee for the true , they will tell you the true

BTW : Listen to VC declare their invincible victory after the fall of Saigon . Thousand and thousand VC declare each of them killed at least 100 amercan ( If you add up the number at least 5 millions Americans dead in VN war) . Most of them declare their best technic killing American call " Apple shot" . That is meaning one bullet shot in the middle of the head . The bullet went through from the first head to second anf third head . So they killed 3 Americans in one shot . Can you believe it
American solder go to war in the straight line and let vc shot them in one bullet "Bang " . 3 Americans dead . What a BS
In 1974 , no air plan can stop ang park in the air . VC pilot tell their victory killing american air plan by stop and hidding their air plan in the cloud . Wait for american plane go by and shot them down . Some said they use their AK47 shot down b52 bomber . MAN , Do you think VC army can defeat south VN and american force with that kind of knowledge

VC army is a piece garbage . Their only techic in war is sacrifice soldier in battle field . Their most proud battle "dien bien phu" with french is fight by chinese. Chinese is release some history book by this year . And they declare their fight . Red army vietnamese is a helper. VC army what a loser ?
For those who love cartoon and hate VC go here
http://photofun.cjb.net/

 

[Drift3r]

1.) We could not bare the financial burden of maintaining troops there for the long haul. The sheer cost of the war drained our coffers dry.

2.) The South Vietnamese were never really on our side. Sure you had some who were dependent on the government for jobs in the South and those who made lots of money off our troops but most of the billions in aid money to fight the war was looted by South Vietnamese generals and South Vietnamese politicians.

3.) The North had the nationalist card on it's side. They fought off the French, then Japanese and French again only to have to face our soldiers. They had been fighting for their independence for over 50 years in that country and were not going to quit.

4.) The realities of guerilla warfare were not something the U.S. public and military wanted or knew how to correctly deal with and it when the military did learn to deal with it the mission to win the "Hearts and Minds" was already lost.

5.) The public realized that the threat of North Vietnamese was not as big as the administrations who lead us and maintianed us in this war claim it was.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: charrison
<blockquote>Quote
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
The real reason we lost the war was because it was a badly planned and badly executed war. The natives didn't support us while we were there, the enemies knew the jungle terran much better, were much more deeply entrenched, and they had more heart than us. Most of our boys sent there didn't believe an ounce in that war.
You can ask the Viet veterans.

Prior to then the US military had never fought a entrenched guerilla war of this scope...

While I agree with much of that, the tet offensive broke the back of the NV army. It was a political disaster for the US. The army lost the PR battle.[/quote]

Actually it broke the back of the VC ( aka Southern Guerrillas ) not the NVA ( North Vietnamese Regular Army ) which was mostly kicking back up North waiting for U.S. to withdraw so they could rush in and push aside the South Vietnamese Army. Prior to Tet the VC was a major thorn in our sides because they usually were the ones doing the suicide bombings in bars, hotels, and shops frequented by G.I.s or ambushing convoys, killing local leaders and intimidating or recruiting the locals, ambushing our patrols, and bringing in supplies and weapons, etc...

 

[vanln]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
1.) We could not bare the financial burden of maintaining troops there for the long haul. The sheer cost of the war drained our coffers dry.

2.) The South Vietnamese were never really on our side. Sure you had some who were dependent on the government for jobs in the South and those who made lots of money off our troops but most of the billions in aid money to fight the war was looted by South Vietnamese generals and South Vietnamese politicians.

3.) The North had the nationalist card on it's side. They fought off the French, then Japanese and French again only to have to face our soldiers. They had been fighting for their independence for over 50 years in that country and were not going to quit.

4.) The realities of guerilla warfare were not something the U.S. public and military wanted or knew how to correctly deal with and it when the military did learn to deal with it the mission to win the "Hearts and Minds" was already lost.

5.) The public realized that the threat of North Vietnamese was not as big as the administrations who lead us and maintianed us in this war claim it was.

The Vietnam war:

A HISTORY TO BE REWRITTEN


Nguyen Gia Tien


The Western world often had an erroneous view of Vietnam's recent history. This was understandable because the heinously criminal acts of the current communist regime in Hanoi had not been fully revealed. Would all Stalin's crimes and the truth about USSR and the East European countries be known if there weren't a process of " destalinization " since 1953 and the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 ? We had a Nuremberg trial for the Nazis, but still no Nuremberg for Stalinism, and when can we have a Nuremberg for the Hanoi regime ?

For misinformed people in the West, the Vietnam war was an ?independence war? fought during 30 years (1945-1975) by Ho Chi Minh and his cohorts against first the Japanese, then the French and finally the Americans.

In fact the truth is quite different.

1.The first Vietnam war (1946-1954 ) : A victory hijacked by the Communists.

Indochina ,which included Vienam,was a French colony until early 1945. As early as 1942, the Japanese army entered Vietnam without a fight.The French administration was too weak to oppose any conditions imposed by the Japanese(military bases,troop movements etc..) Shortly before the end of World War II, on March 9,1945 a coup d?etat by the Japanese army put an end to the French occupation.The Independence of Vietnam was proclaimed for the first time after a century of French domination.The first independent Vietnamese government, under Tran trong Kim?s leadership had to compromise to some extent with the occupying Japanese army. But the Vietnamese patriotic movements, always latent during the years of French rule, experienced an unprecedented expansion from that day on.This ?elan? of patriotism was further exacerbated when 6 months later Vietnam became totally independent as a result of the Japanese capitulation.The Vietnamese people enjoyed for the first time this great happiness they had aspired to for a century. It was easy to understand why this patriotism, rendered red hot during the process of after war decolonization in South East Asia (Indonesia, Philippines, Malaysia..) exploded when the French came back on the coat-tails of the British army (in fact the French contingent just followed British troops when they came to disarm the Japanese army in Indochina). This patriotic ?élan? was the real driving force behind the war of resistance against the French which broke out in the evening of December 19,1946.

Among the Vietnamese revolutionary leaders, who were then fighting the French attempt to reoccupy Indochina after the Japanese capitulation, there was a prominent group of Communists led by Ho Chi Minh, Vo Nguyen Giap, Pham Van Dong... Ho Chi Minh, a Moscow trained revolutionary, had in mind a goal other than national independence sought by nationalist leaders. He and his cohorts wanted international Communism to supplant Colonialism in Indochina and were receiving specific orders from Moscow. Now we understand why they were better organized, more homogeneous and experts in machiavelian political maneuvers.

During the war, the Communists under Ho Chi Minh gradually took over by eliminating all non communist leaders of the resistance. It should be noted that at that time Communism was unknown to the general population. The Communist party under Ho Chi Minh was hiding under the name of the Labor party (Dang Lao Dong).

Therefore one can see that, at the beginning of the war, the true driving force behind the anticolonial struggle supported by all the people was Vietnamese patriotism that had nothing to do with communism ideology. Starting in 1949 when the Chinese communists came to power in China, Ho and his clique now had direct help from them. With this help to back them up, they began to unveil their true communist nature. Owing to his total submission to Beijing, Ho Chi Minh obtained in return at the decisive battle of Dien Bien Phu direct participation of Chinese communists in Giap's command ( generals Wei Guoqing, Luo Guibo, Cheng Geng...and theirs ten of thousands of " volunteers " ). This enable Giap to achieve victory in 1954 and introduce a " dictatorship of the Proletariat " patterned after the Beijing model. It wasn't pure chance, after Ho totally controlled North Vietnam, to witness the implementation of a bloody " Agrarian Reform " ( 1953-1956 ) which was truly a Pol Pot like type of genocide in which hundreds of thousands of people perished. Ho Chi Minh and his clique in fact had transformed an independence war against French colonialism first into an international conflict and then steered it towards a " class struggle " to serve international Communism.

All those losses of human lives and time and the destruction of the country had no other purpose than substituting " white colonialism " with " red colonialism " in North Vietnam. The result is, in 1954, a massive exodus of a million refugees ( they could be said to have " voted with theirs feet " ) fleeing from Communism and an unscrupulous regime in the North which is still in place.

2-The Second Vietnam war (1960-1975): The legitimate defense of the South Vietnamese people was betrayed and rendered futile.

Ho and his clique's communist vocation did not allow them to stop at the border of North Vietnam . International Communism dictated that they should go further into South East Asia.

Following the 1954 Geneva Agreement between Ho Chi Minh and the French, which was not signed by the Bao Dai government and the US, and the partition of Vietnam at the 17th parallel, the two halves of Vietnam found themselves incorporated into the two opposing blocs of the Cold War. In South Vietnam, Bao Dai was succeeded by Ngo Dinh Diem and the generals ( the last one was Nguyen Van Thieu). With minimum US help, these governments managed to contain communist sabotage and infiltration from the North for some time. In spite of being under a still imperfect democratic regime, the South Vietnamese people still enjoyed relative freedom, much better than what the North was experiencing under stalinist Ho Chi Minh.

Beginning in 1960, with the help of Communist Bloc, North Vietnam intensified guerilla warfare in the South. In 1965 huge caches of weapons coming from communist China, including the then very modern Kalashnikov rifles, were discovered in the South near Vung Ro ( Nha Trang ). At about the same time, big battles already erupted all around the country causing South Vietnam to nearly succumb to communist subversion. One witnessed the well known typical scenario of a " liberation war " that had already taken place elsewhere many other times around the world. In each case it is simply an example of covert communist subversion. Only then did the US Marines started landing at Da Nang beach in 1965, as prelude to more massive US involvement which kept increasing as the Communist bloc escalated its aggrression .The American intervention was in fact only a response to the strategy of subversion by the Communist bloc. The true nature of the 1960-1975 war was the South Vietnamese people's defense, with US help, against the Communist bloc's aggrression . It was in fact a struggle to preserve South Vietnam's freedom against an attempt to impose a communist dictatorship. But the US internal politics, their influence on the conduct of this war, and the reasons why the Americans withdrew from Vietnam in 1973, would be the subject of another story.

However, the swift collapse of Saigon in 1975 could not be blamed on the South Vietnamese people's lack of motivation in defending freedom, nor the weakness of their armed forces. In 1972, when these forces were normally supported by the US, they did fight courageously and destroyed the Giap's armored divisions crossing the demilitarized zone into South Vietnam in a much larger offensive than that of 1975.

Unfortunately, while the Communist bloc was fully and steadfastly supporting an aggrressive North Vietnam, one could witness during the last two years of the war (1973-1974), a defeatist American Congress cut off large portions of supply and ammunition aid to South Vietnam because of shortsightedness and demagogic political reasons. This betrayal was perfectly orchestrated and preceded by a campaign of denigration and disinformation in favor of the communists, which was fostered by most of the media and intelligentsia in the Western world .

3-Today?s Vietnam

30 years after the end of the war Vietnam is still one of the poorest countries in the world, under the same Stalinist one party regime created by Ho chi Minh. It?s still entirely a totalitarian country. No political opposition is allowed. Freedom of expression, of the press, of religion are non existent. Violations of human rights that occurred almost daily are regularly denounced by Amnesty International, Human right watch, Reporters without frontiers, Pen Club International?A few initiatives during recent years to open up the economy attracted only predatory capitalistic ventures, causing some disorganized economic development. Contrasting with general poverty in city slums and in the countryside, a new class of ?nouveaux-riches? is emerging among the arrogant apparatchiks of the Party who are now gradually transforming themselves into an unscrupulous Red Mafia.

The recent history of Vietnam is in fact the history of a transition from ?white colonialism? into ?Red and Yellow colonialism?.

Switzerland, April 2004


Bibliography .

- Hoang Van Chi : From Colonialism to Communism ( Pall Mall Press, 1964 )
- Philippe Devillers : Leclerc et l'Indochine 1945-1947 ( Albin Michel 1992 )
- King C. Chen : Vietnam and China 1938-1945. ( Princeton University Press, 1969 )
- Hoang Van Dao : Viet Nam Quoc Dan Dang .
- Norman Podhoretz : Why We Were in Vietnam . ( Simon &amp; Schuster, New York, 1982 )
- Richard Nixon : No More Vietnams. ( Arbor House, 1985 )
- L.A.Patti : Why Vietnam ? ( Berkeley University Press, 1980 )
- David G. Marr : Vietnam 1945, The Quest For Power. ( University of California Press, 1995)
-Le Manh Hung : Cuoc chien Quoc-Cong tai Mien Bac 1945-1946 ( The Ky 21 Magazine, USA, September 1995 )

This is the most accurate history of Vietnam war you can count on

 

[MadRat]

The loss was only in the fact that we strategically withdrew from a politically disadvantaged war.

Otherwise the U.S. military shined as a fighting force. Sure there were some bad mistakes made here and there, but by and large the U.S. cleaned house in every major military engagement. The Air Force matured in the idea that it shaked itself from its meager USAAF origins to become the Strategic Air Command that would literally hold the fate of the free world in its balance for the next thirty years. The Army would use its lessens from the battlefield to dominate the war college for the next thirty years, at least until substantial modern conflicts arose. The Navy perfected the movement of troops and frmulated the idea of pre-staging military supplies around the world. The U.S. could literally fight three Vietnams at the same time right now, albiet with substantially more men and women in uniform. Maybe not against three modern Vietnam armies, but the modern equipment has several tenfolds of capability compared to its predecessors used during that same time period.