Why did tin/pewter toys fall from popularity?

[sonambulo]

Vintage Japanese toys are generally PVC. Yes, the good old fashioned phthalate laden kind.

As far as selling the toys I don't think we're really talking about the same potential market. Modern vinyl collectors will pay good money for new and interesting sculpts. I am not particularly interested in manufacturing toys aimed at vintage collectors.

As far as retail, off the shelf toys that is completely different from 'designer' toys. They are made with super-cheap, super-soft plastics and use a completely different manufacturing process. Apples and bowling balls.

 

[Icepick]

jesus christ, can we stop with the "corporations are greedy" crap. If you don't like it, start your own tin/pewter toy manufacturing company. Otherwise, shut the fuck up, or at least take you tin foil hat off.

Corporations are greedy. This is the nature of corporations.
"Greed is good."
"Greed fuels the economy."
Take an economics class please and don't flame people for making truthful statements.

 

[sdifox]

most of the world's population is in China.

are you really going to argue that China's safety standards are too high?

no, most of the world's population is outside of China.

Whole World 6.9B
China 1.3B
India 1.2B
USA 311M


WTFBBQ USA is the world's third most populous state????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

 

[lxskllr]

Vintage Japanese toys are generally PVC. Yes, the good old fashioned phthalate laden kind.

As far as selling the toys I don't think we're really talking about the same potential market. Modern vinyl collectors will pay good money for new and interesting sculpts. I am not particularly interested in manufacturing toys aimed at vintage collectors.

As far as retail, off the shelf toys that is completely different from 'designer' toys. They are made with super-cheap, super-soft plastics and use a completely different manufacturing process. Apples and bowling balls.

Well, I guess I don't know what market you're after. From my pov, toys are for children, and not adults. The exception to that is the nostalgia market, and quirky things like Einstein dolls, and Tux plushes. Maybe I'm off base, but I don't see toys as being decent sellers without some other kind of tie in.

 

[nageov3t]

WTFBBQ USA is the world's third most populous state????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

we're also the third largest by landmass, and I'd assume that more of our territory is easily-habitable than Russia or Canada.

you're still talking about almost 40% of the world's population sitting on 9% of the world's landmass, so you get my point

 

[Squisher]

@guyver Die-casting is still very widely used in industry. Unfortunately the price to get started is far, far too rich for my blood.

The thing is most dies are made with EDM machines or high speed CNC mills. The art of die sinking in the old sense was pretty much gone even when I was an apprentice 30+ years ago. People would often tell me I had the hands and eye of a die sinker, because I would shape things with hand tools most wouldn't try to reproduce. I wish I got paid like a die sinker. $35/hr.

 

[sdifox]

we're also the third largest by landmass, and I'd assume that more of our territory is easily-habitable than Russia or Canada.

you're still talking about almost 40% of the world's population sitting on 9% of the world's landmass, so you get my point

1.3/6.9=18.84%....even if you add in india it is still 36%.

 

[sonambulo]

The thing is most dies are made with EDM machines or high speed CNC mills. The art of die sinking in the old sense was pretty much gone even when I was an apprentice 30+ years ago. People would often tell me I had the hands and eye of a die sinker, because I would shape things with hand tools most wouldn't try to reproduce. I wish I got paid like a die sinker. $35/hr.

I keep hearing from a lot of sources that die sinker jobs are all flying overseas. Any truth to this? Also, how difficult would you say it is for someone to make dies at home?

 

[0roo0roo]

whats the cost of a simple tin toy car if you account for inflation?

 

[CPA]

Corporations are greedy. This is the nature of corporations.
"Greed is good."
"Greed fuels the economy."
Take an economics class please and don't flame people for making truthful statements.

Whatever, you know what he meant. I agree corporations are greedy in a sense and that is necessary and fine. But when morons like the other poster are phrasing it, they mean it in the sense that corporations are evil, greed notwithstaning. it's sickening and tired.

 

[SP33Demon]

They needed metal for WWII? Aside from the cost issue (modern).

 

[spidey07]

I loved my Tonka Toys. When I was a kid they were made out of metal and heavy as all get out. You could kick them, throw them, hit your brother over the head with them and they lasted.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

weight. plastic is much lighter and there for shipping is cheaper.

 

[twinrider1]

I just want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Yes sir?
Are you listening?
Yes sir, I am.
Plastics.

 

[sonambulo]

whats the cost of a simple tin toy car if you account for inflation?

I'm not sure what you're asking. How much they cost at retail back in the day? How much they cost to produce now?

 

[Squisher]

I keep hearing from a lot of sources that die sinker jobs are all flying overseas. Any truth to this? Also, how difficult would you say it is for someone to make dies at home?

All the die sinking and die making is going overseas specifically China. The only reason to keep it here is if the design is in a state of flux with a lot of changes likely to happen then it doesn't make a lot of sense having engineers flying to China every weekend with updates to the design then flying back with prototypes to see if they do what you want.

It all depends what you are trying to make as to whether it's feasible to do it yourself. Easy stuff like stamping out fishing lures, sure. Die casting army men, not so much.

 

[CZroe]

Plastic is safer? I could kill a man with a heavy old Tonka truck.

 

[sonambulo]

It all depends what you are trying to make as to whether it's feasible to do it yourself. Easy stuff like stamping out fishing lures, sure. Die casting army men, not so much.

Yes, I'd assume die-stamping at home is pretty much impossible unless my house included a huge shop and awesome equipment. Shame that it doesn't.

I think I'm actually going to go with a version of slush casting. I can (and have!) sculpt, tool, cast, paint and package by myself although in VERY small numbers. Think runs of 100 if they're completed, and maybe runs of 300 if they're just unpainted and bagged with a header board.

Pending information and permitting from the EPA, I should be completely up and running by year's end at the latest but hopefully by summer's end. I have NO social life so fortunately I'm not worried about time :awe:

 

[bignateyk]

Plastic is cheaper. That's really the only reason.

If metal were somehow cheaper then that's what the toy companies would be using. They would find a way to make plastic more dangerous in consumers eyes. I'm sure they would come up with all kinds of studies linking plastics to cancer and other problems to make metal the more safe choice in soccer moms eyes.

 

[edro]

#1 profit margins; they rather sell you a plastic piece of crap that has no workmanship.
the real reason is profit margins; the corporations have gotten greedy to the utmost degree.

They are only supplying what the market wants.
The market wants cheap toys because toys get used and broken.
You didn't buy enough metal toys to keep them in the market.

It's your fault.

 

[lxskllr]

I think I'm actually going to go with a version of slush casting. I can (and have!) sculpt, tool, cast, paint and package by myself although in VERY small numbers. Think runs of 100 if they're completed, and maybe runs of 300 if they're just unpainted and bagged with a header board.

Pending information and permitting from the EPA, I should be completely up and running by year's end at the latest but hopefully by summer's end. I have NO social life so fortunately I'm not worried about time :awe:

Who's your market? Gamers, and hobbyists where they create board scenes?

 

[Squisher]

Yes, I'd assume die-stamping at home is pretty much impossible unless my house included a huge shop and awesome equipment. Shame that it doesn't.

My wife's grandfather had the neatest little stamping press that was foot powered. He used it to make fishing lures like spoons. The bed of the press was like 6" X 8" and it had like a 3/4" stroke. There was this pendulum arm that weighed maybe 200-300 lbs. that hung down and you pushed it with your foot. When you got that arm swinging with your foot it had no problem stamping out spoons out of .040" stock.

 

[sonicdrummer20]

/Pb(lead)

 

[sonambulo]

Plastic is cheaper. That's really the only reason.

If metal were somehow cheaper then that's what the toy companies would be using. They would find a way to make plastic more dangerous in consumers eyes. I'm sure they would come up with all kinds of studies linking plastics to cancer and other problems to make metal the more safe choice in soccer moms eyes.

Actually, older plastics were absolutely loaded with phthalates. The plastic making process actually deals with some pretty toxic chemicals and a lot of plastics release carcinogens when burned or left to rot in landfills for too long. Fortunately most of these problems have been solved with proper production/disposal methods invented in the last decade or so.

Who's your market? Gamers, and hobbyists where they create board scenes?

You'll just have to be patient and wait until I'm ready to show some finished pieces. I'm aiming for summer's end or autumn but, realistically accounting for setbacks, check in with me very early 2012.

My wife's grandfather had the neatest little stamping press that was foot powered. He used it to make fishing lures like spoons. The bed of the press was like 6" X 8" and it had like a 3/4" stroke. There was this pendulum arm that weighed maybe 200-300 lbs. that hung down and you pushed it with your foot. When you got that arm swinging with your foot it had no problem stamping out spoons out of .040" stock.

That's awesome! I know it's probably impossible because of time but if you have any pics I'd love to see them!

 

[lxskllr]

You'll just have to be patient and wait until I'm ready to show some finished pieces. I'm aiming for summer's end or autumn but, realistically accounting for setbacks, check in with me very early 2012.

I'm definitely interested what you've got going on. Nobody creates THINGS anymore. They generate paper that no one gives a shit about. I'm always interested in what creators do :^)