Why did SLI fall out of grace for so many years?

[Texashiker]

so would you please read your own thread...and stop comparing the two different technoliges as "little different"...they are WAY different.

I am NOT trying to compare the technologies.

Since you seem to be so smart on the topic, why dont you answer the question in the OP?

There was a shift in technology, but the principle is the same, which is using two video cards to improve performance.

Its like fuel injected motors becoming popular in the 1970s, going back to carburetors in the 1980s, then a new type of fuel injection coming out in the 1990s.

We had a certain type of SLI technology in the 1990s. In the early - mid 2000s a new type of SLI was introduced.

I am NOT trying to compare the 2 types, I would like to know "why" there was a technology break. Usually one type of technology gives way to another type.

It seems that the rage of SLI just disappeared around the year 2000, then reappeared several years later.

Think about that, how often does a new technology just disappear for 1/2 a decade?

 

[Lonbjerg]

I am NOT trying to compare the technologies.

Since you seem to be so smart on the topic, why dont you answer the question in the OP?

There was a shift in technology, but the principle is the same, which is using two video cards to improve performance.

Its like fuel injected motors becoming popular in the 1970s, going back to carburetors in the 1980s, then a new type of fuel injection coming out in the 1990s.

We had a certain type of SLI technology in the 1990s. In the early - mid 2000s a new type of SLI was introduced.

I am NOT trying to compare the 2 types, I would like to know "why" there was a technology break. Usually one type of technology gives way to another type.

It seems that the rage of SLI just disappeared around the year 2000, then reappeared several years later.

Think about that, how often does a new technology just disappear for 1/2 a decade?

You are oversimplifying things...just saying.

Look into the history of 3Dfx, NVIDIA's aqqusition of their IP's...and the NV40 GPU and combine that with the differences in rendering methods...and you have a very good answer.

 

[Texashiker]

You are oversimplifying things...just saying.

What is there to oversimply? Old technology gives way to new technology. It is that simple.

NV40 GPU according to Wikipedia was introduced in 2004.

What was released between 1999 - 2004 that used dual video card technology?

Either the old, or new SLI, it does not matter, what was released between 1999 and 2004?

 

[WT]

I started out with a Voodoo1 from Canopus 3D

I still have mine (the 6mb card) as well as a VoodooII 12mb card with ribbon cable for SLI. I'd like to make a video card display case one of these days.

 

[SickBeast]

I am NOT trying to compare the technologies.

Since you seem to be so smart on the topic, why dont you answer the question in the OP?

There was a shift in technology, but the principle is the same, which is using two video cards to improve performance.

Its like fuel injected motors becoming popular in the 1970s, going back to carburetors in the 1980s, then a new type of fuel injection coming out in the 1990s.

We had a certain type of SLI technology in the 1990s. In the early - mid 2000s a new type of SLI was introduced.

I am NOT trying to compare the 2 types, I would like to know "why" there was a technology break. Usually one type of technology gives way to another type.

It seems that the rage of SLI just disappeared around the year 2000, then reappeared several years later.

Think about that, how often does a new technology just disappear for 1/2 a decade?

Look, with PCI cards everyone had at least 3-4 PCI slots on their motherboard that could accomodate them. With AGP, 99% of motherboards only had a single slot. I don't know why they did that but it's the way it was. There's that, plus the fact that the way the original SLI worked was no longer practical and they needed time to invent AFR.

The Voodoo 2 cards were the last of the SLI cards IIRC. When the Voodoo 3 came out, it was AGP and single card only. There were still cards like the Rage Fury Maxx that were dual GPU but they were rare and they only used a single slot similar to the GTX 690.

 

[dagamer34]

Like what?
SFR has been tested...and was to problematic.
CFR has been tested...and was WAY to problematic.
Then you are left with AFR.

What do you suggest...besides pixiefaries...to use as a method?

Don't you know, if you get your hands on a GTX 680 and Radeon HD 7970 in the same card, you unlock super pixy dust mode that renders games 2x faster than both combined!

 

[Texashiker]

The Voodoo 2 cards were the last of the SLI cards IIRC. When the Voodoo 3 came out, it was AGP and single card only.

That is the heart of the question right there. Why did dual card SLI fall out of grace?

Its clear from the post in this thread that people were buying the cards, users liked the results, so why did the video card companies and motherboard manufacturers drop the ball?

If you have a product and people are buying it, why stop making it?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Look, with PCI cards everyone had at least 3-4 PCI slots on their motherboard that could accomodate them. With AGP, 99% of motherboards only had a single slot. I don't know why they did that but it's the way it was. There's that, plus the fact that the way the original SLI worked was no longer practical and they needed time to invent AFR.

The Voodoo 2 cards were the last of the SLI cards IIRC. When the Voodoo 3 came out, it was AGP and single card only. There were still cards like the Rage Fury Maxx that were dual GPU but they were rare and they only used a single slot similar to the GTX 690.

The VooDoo 5 was two 4s on a single board.

The never-released VooDoo5 6000 was four.

http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/divers/v5-6000/v56kgb-1.htm

Supposedly, their GPUs were designed to work with up to 32 of them in parallel.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

That is the heart of the question right there. Why did dual card SLI fall out of grace?

Its clear from the post in this thread that people were buying the cards, users liked the results, so why did the video card companies and motherboard manufacturers drop the ball?

If you have a product and people are buying it, why stop making it?

Because it was hard.

The scaling performance wasn't there, (it still isn't, without a lot of driver tweaking and game patching for every new release) the heat and power consumption problems were rearing their ugly head, and the AGP bus was a limiting factor that had to be worked around.

The nerds (NERD PRIDE!) who respond to threads like this are just about the only people who did buy those cards. Most people were completely happy with single-GPU cards, and were absolutely delighted when the VooDoo3 did 2D and 3D with a single card, no passthroughs required.

To say nothing of the gamers who were completely happy with software rendering because at least it worked 99% of the time. And you didn't have to buy special versions of your game to get it to work, or use one card for RAVE and one for Glide.

 

[DefRef]

If I want to make myself sad, I mentally tally up what I've spent on video cards over the past decade-and-a-half:

* Voodoo 1
* Voodoo 2 8MB
* TNT
* TNT2
* GeForce 256
* GeForce 2
* GeForce 3 Ti200
* GeForce 4400
* GeForce 5700 (IIRC)
* GeForce 6600 (IIRC)
* GeForce 7800
* GeForce 7900 SLI
* GeForce 8800 768MB SLI
* GTX 460 1GB SLI
* GTX 670 2GB

Oy vey.

 

[SickBeast]

That is the heart of the question right there. Why did dual card SLI fall out of grace?

Its clear from the post in this thread that people were buying the cards, users liked the results, so why did the video card companies and motherboard manufacturers drop the ball?

If you have a product and people are buying it, why stop making it?

AGP

 

[Texashiker]

AGP

A motherboard can not have dual AGP ports?

 

[SickBeast]

A motherboard can not have dual AGP ports?

I'm sure it's very easy from a technical standpoint but I never saw one. They just didn't make them. I've heard there were some but it was nothing like today where practically every motherboard has multiple slots.

 

[SickBeast]

AGP is a port, not a bus, and therefore by definition only supports one device.

While there are AGP bridge chips to get 2 video processors to operate on a single board, ie Voodoo 5 or ATi Rage MAXX cards, no motherboards exist with 2 AGP slots.

That's from Andy Hui, an old AnandTech editor.

 

[Texashiker]

That's from Andy Hui, and old AnandTech editor.

So maybe it was a physical limitation of the AGP port that dual video cards fell to the wayside in the early 2000s?

 

[Magic Carpet]

3Dfx SLI had 1 card render all odd lines (1,3,5,7,9...) and one render all even lines (2,4,6,8,10...)

Hence the name: Scan-Line Interleave

AFR (Alternat Frame Render)
This render frame 1 on the first card, then frame 2 on the second card, the first card then renders frame 3...and so on. This method of rendering is what gives the best consistant performance boost..and that is why it is the only rendering method left. This rendermethod is also the origin of microstuttering.

Okay, so 3dfx SLI as it appears was more effective than current nv/amd implementation. Why didn't nv carry on?

IMO, wouldnt it be cool to use 3dfx sli in dual-gpus configurations of the current flagship products? :biggrin:

From Wiki:

Note: It can now be seen that the original 3DFX SLI was very effective, more so than even current implementations by Nvidia & ATI, capable of achieving near 100% performance increase over a single Voodoo2 card. The reason this could not be observed before was that the CPU was the limiting factor.

 

[SickBeast]

So maybe it was a physical limitation of the AGP port that dual video cards fell to the wayside in the early 2000s?

Yep, it looks that way to me.

 

[Oyeve]

So maybe it was a physical limitation of the AGP port that dual video cards fell to the wayside in the early 2000s?

Having 2 agp ports would negate the purpose of agp in the first place. ie, the bandwith would be cut in half so what would be the point of dual agp?

 

[2is]

Having 2 agp ports would negate the purpose of agp in the first place. ie, the bandwith would be cut in half so what would be the point of dual agp?

You can say the same thing about PCIe. AGP evolved just like PCIe does. Currently PCIe is at 3.0 AGP ended with 8x which for its time showed nearly no benefit over 4x so running two at 4x shouldn't be an issue just like running two cards with 8 lanes each isn't really bandwidth limited.

 

[Cerb]

Having 2 agp ports would negate the purpose of agp in the first place. ie, the bandwith would be cut in half so what would be the point of dual agp?

You can say the same thing about PCIe. AGP evolved just like PCIe does. Currently PCIe is at 3.0 AGP ended with 8x which for its time showed nearly no benefit over 4x so running two at 4x shouldn't be an issue just like running two cards with 8 lanes each isn't really bandwidth limited.

The real difference is that PCI-e 3.0 offers tangible benefits to devices other than graphics cards. PCI-e 3.0 matters for SATA, network controllers, and video devices (as in cameras and broadcasting, not our GPUs) far more than for gaming or workstation video cards.

Multiple AGP in a single controller never got used for AIBs, AFAIK, just as a convenient way to handle IGP. The only dual AGP produced, TMK, gave both cards full bandwidth, at 4x (dual-chipset dual-Alpha workstations).

 

[Lonbjerg]

Okay, so 3dfx SLI as it appears was more effective than current nv/amd implementation. Why didn't nv carry on?

IMO, wouldnt it be cool to use 3dfx sli in dual-gpus configurations of the current flagship products? :biggrin:

From Wiki:

Because that methods simply didn't jive with the development of engines.
what worked in the past, har been replaced by more potent and more realistic looking engine technologies...so AFR is the last option todays...due to rendering methods.

 

[lamedude]

Scan line interleve has the same problem as split frame rendering each card has to render the geometry. This was done on the CPU back in the Voodoo2 era so it wasn't a problem.

Having 2 agp ports would negate the purpose of agp in the first place. ie, the bandwith would be cut in half so what would be the point of dual agp?

AGP texturing was rarely used so the extra bandwidth was mostly useless. If PCI 2.1's 66MHZ feature was actually used we probably could've dropped AGP when we stopped using the PCI bus to connect the north bridge to the south bridge.