Why did Europeans open their arms to Muslims so much?

Hugo Drax

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,647
47
91
Instead of highly restricting in regards to immigration, knowing that Their religion is not really compatible with the European way of life? It would be like during the Crusades to open up all borders and say ALL CATHOLICS welcome.

What we are seeing is equivalent to the Catholic Crusades during the Middle Ages.

Would the smart thing to do deny Islamic Immigration, and expel those who are extremist etc?

Right now it looks like we are undergoing the Islamic Crusades, so the smart thing to do is prepare accordingly.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I'd guess because the native populations are in decline. Without an influx of able workers the EU will deteriorate economically over time.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
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I'm not particularly educated on immigration in Europe. Are these terrorists actually european citizens or are they illegals that found their way in?
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
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Not every European country accepts Muslims and/or Foreigners with open arms.

Switzerland's SVP (right wing conservatives who are borderline fascist) isn't too friendly with Muslims for example.
image-23345-galleryV9-abcd.jpg


The SVP helped push a ban against new minarets for mosques. The above is just one of their MANY posters - google Switzerland SVP, and click on images (some are trolls; like the ones with swastikas), but, it's like a projector was hooked up to an American conservative's head!!

And, even though they take people in under asylum, they aren't too friendly; http://world.time.com/2013/08/13/switzerlands-xenophobia-its-not-just-about-oprah/

Also, were you Swiss born (and have Swiss citizenship), but decided to move and live in another country in Europe for a while? Good luck trying to move back. Even with your Swiss citizenship, you are treated like an outcast - you aren't even allowed to live IN Zurich or any other major metropolitan city. You have to live outside of said cities.

How and why Europe is seen as some liberal orgy circle jerk of social equality, peace, harmony and love,.. is beyond me. Europe is rather xenophobic and just as racist as any other place.
 

alcoholbob

Diamond Member
May 24, 2005
6,390
470
126
I'd guess because the native populations are in decline. Without an influx of able workers the EU will deteriorate economically over time.

Population declines affect government budgets and also makes the debt harder the pay off, it's not really a problem for countries unless you have large entitlements. When you have a population decline say due to the plague, the standard of living actually rises as generally the people most effected are in poverty.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
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Oh! Let's talk about Europe's latest and greatest xenophobic fascist group,...

Greece's Golden Dawn;
AsPC2OuCQAES-g-e1379986943158.jpg

,.. who want to put migrants into ovens; http://www.timesofisrael.com/golden-dawn-member-convicted-for-threatening-to-put-migrants-in-ovens/

The Golden Dawn's popularity has increased, since the country fell into economic troubles.

And, here is a video of one of their leaders smacking a woman on TV; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nte1UtRww_k (skip the Mousaka to :50 to see the actual smack down).
 
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f1sherman

Platinum Member
Apr 5, 2011
2,243
1
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Also, were you Swiss born (and have Swiss citizenship), but decided to move and live in another country in Europe for a while? Good luck trying to move back. Even with your Swiss citizenship, you are treated like an outcast - you aren't even allowed to live IN Zurich or any other major metropolitan city. You have to live outside of said cities.

How and why Europe is seen as some liberal orgy circle jerk of social equality, peace, harmony and love,.. is beyond me. Europe is rather xenophobic and just as racist as any other place.

This is ATP&N. "Europe" is micro enough. And Swiss is what... cheese?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,860
6,396
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Same reason the US/Canada does, Immigrants are needed. Europe just put it off so long that their need is more immediate.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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Countries have always had immigration they did not want. You cant really stop it, and continue to grow. What many countries did before, was shame people into conforming. The current way of things, is to accept all views, even when those views are anti the current way of things.

A lot of the problem is how Europe deals with bad ideas. Europeans are usually thought to be more accepting, but that is not often the case. I was just talking with a friend who has been living in Europe for the past 3+ years. France banning the hijab is a great example of what I'm talking about.

The problem is not immigration. The problem is bad ideas are not shot down anymore, because all views are right. Its hard to bash bad Muslim ideas, when there are bad christian ideas.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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I can answer the question. Cheap slave laborers. We do the same thing with Mexican Laborers.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
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I can answer the question. Cheap slave laborers. We do the same thing with Mexican Laborers.

Thats weird. I thought you did not pay slaves, give slaves benefits, pay for slave children to get an education. I cant believe I had slave history so wrong.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
P.C. insanity run amuck.

Extreme, pants-pissing cowardice masqueraded as "tolerance."

The same things those with a 5th century mindset will use to keep exploiting and terrorizing other parts of the world.

Nothing on the surface is wrong with opening arms to others of different faiths or whatever, but within the context of the more civilized secular world. So, sure, come here (legally!) and bring your food, customs, culture, skill etc. and make it a part of ours, within the framework of our laws. (Most people do that, by the way.) LEAVE AT HOME: your 5th century beliefs that are against our laws and freedoms, that run counter to everything gleaned since the enlightenment.

P.C. insanity (the aforementioned extreme cowardice) holds that we must tolerate the later, because at the heart of it, it's borne of people that are too cowardly to confront it and stand up for civilization.
 

Zaap

Diamond Member
Jun 12, 2008
7,162
424
126
Thats weird. I thought you did not pay slaves, give slaves benefits, pay for slave children to get an education. I cant believe I had slave history so wrong.
You did. From a pure economic standpoint, the original model of slavery was extremely expensive. The pretense of 'owning' a human being is highly costly, as even though you aren't perse 'paying' the person, you're paying their every (meager of course) expense to merely live. Even at a bare minimum this is extremely costly, and is cradle to grave.

The modern version of it simply jettisons all the pretense of ownership (and the costs associated as well, to say nothing of the 'never going to win any PR points) and just goes straight to the exploited labor benefit. Just dangle an economic carrot to lure your 'slaves' in willingly, exploit the labor, pay them a fraction of what the old model would cost you for cradle/grave pretend 'ownership' and give not a flying fuck if the person drops dead tomorrow- just lure in more after that. And the bow on top? Dress it all up as exactly the opposite of the original version- you're now a civil rights CHAMPION rather than a villain. Win-win.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,401
10,711
136
Why did Europeans open their arms to Muslims so much?

Why did Americans open their arms to illegals? Same answer but fewer crazy fundies involved.

Immigration occurs from poor nations to rich nations. Happens across the world.
 

inachu

Platinum Member
Aug 22, 2014
2,387
2
41
Hugo Drax,

Will not read other posters replies on here but just to your topic headline.

The #1 reason and person for the mighty influx as of late into europe can be pinpointed
to just one and only one person.
Her name is Barbara Lerner Spectre.
Type in her name in youtube and watch and see how uppity she is as she tries to raise her own people up by putting others down then on top of that saying EUROPE WILL FAIL IF THEY DO NOT MIX!

It is all lies from her mouth.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
image-795326-galleryV9-twne.jpg


Der Spiegel
"I see serious threats coming our way from outside Europe. I feel especially pessimistic about the overpopulation of Africa and Asia," says Menzel, looking serious. "And I believe that what is unfolding in Iraq and Syria at the moment is a clear harbinger of the first global civil war."...

Far-right groups like the xenophobic National Democratic Party of Germany (NPD) see the protests as a chance to take their worldview directly to the middle class. Populist movements that have attracted little attention until now, like the so-called "identitarian movement," are suddenly in the spotlight, as is the aimlessly wandering Reichsbürgerbewegung, or Reich Citizens' Movement, which asserts that the German Reich still exists within its pre-World War II borders....

But the interior ministers failed to develop a convincing plan to effectively combat the problem. "We cannot label 10,000 people as right-wing extremists. That creates more problems than it solves," says Saxony Interior Minister Markus Ulbig, a member of the center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU). According to Ulbig, there were many "middle-class citizens" among the Dresden demonstrators, "and you can't toss them all into the same Neo-Nazi pot."...

In Dresden on Dec. 8, an anonymous Pegida speaker even began his speech by quoting the words of US black civil rights leader Martin Luther King, "I have a dream." He too had a dream, the demonstrator in Saxony said, a dream of the peaceful coexistence of all human beings and cultures. But then he arrived at what he called the hard reality: that we are in a state of war....

Was there an "objective reason," the speaker asked rhetorically, to invade Iraq, overthrow Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, intervene in Tunisia, depose Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and "provoke Russia with Ukraine?" "No!" the crowd shouted each time. "He who sows war will reap refugees," the Pegida speaker shouted to his audience of 10,000 Dresden citizens, and warned against the "perverse ideas" that are coming to Germany...

But many of those who take to the streets every week don't believe the official statistics. Instead, they are convinced that a cartel of politicians and "main-stream media" are audaciously misleading the public over the true state of affairs...

...Nazi-era terms like "Volk" (the people) and "Vaterland" (the fatherland) are back in vogue.

...Many citizens apparently believe that politicians and the media are treating an important issue -- the effects of immigration on society -- as a taboo.

"He who sows war will reap refugees..."

Its an interesting time.

Uno
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
You did. From a pure economic standpoint, the original model of slavery was extremely expensive. The pretense of 'owning' a human being is highly costly, as even though you aren't perse 'paying' the person, you're paying their every (meager of course) expense to merely live. Even at a bare minimum this is extremely costly, and is cradle to grave.

The modern version of it simply jettisons all the pretense of ownership (and the costs associated as well, to say nothing of the 'never going to win any PR points) and just goes straight to the exploited labor benefit. Just dangle an economic carrot to lure your 'slaves' in willingly, exploit the labor, pay them a fraction of what the old model would cost you for cradle/grave pretend 'ownership' and give not a flying fuck if the person drops dead tomorrow- just lure in more after that. And the bow on top? Dress it all up as exactly the opposite of the original version- you're now a civil rights CHAMPION rather than a villain. Win-win.

Slavery was more than giving enough to allow someone to live. Yes, slave owners gave food and some basic resources to survive, but that is not even close to what you call the modern version.

Slaves had almost zero freedom to do anything. Yes, wages are low for some workers, but its not even close to slavery. I think you are getting lost because some things are the same. Slave owners talked to their slaves, and bosses talk to their employees. That does not mean its equal in any real way.

Slaves did not have choice, workers do.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,801
3,084
136
A: post war guilt. they dont want to repeat the holocaust, so they've been pavloved into accepting everyone and everything.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
Slavery was more than giving enough to allow someone to live. Yes, slave owners gave food and some basic resources to survive, but that is not even close to what you call the modern version.

Slaves had almost zero freedom to do anything. Yes, wages are low for some workers, but its not even close to slavery. I think you are getting lost because some things are the same. Slave owners talked to their slaves, and bosses talk to their employees. That does not mean its equal in any real way.

Slaves did not have choice, workers do.

Let's not forget; beatings, torture and being worked to death built a stronger worker - so, the slaves should be grateful for being made stronger.

And, they didn't have to worry about what to do with their lives,.. their masters were there to tell them how to live (and if they even could live).

So, let me just update my slavery apologists list,...
- slavery wasn't THAT big of a deal
- slavery was so long ago, get off it
- slaves won't amount to anything anyway, someone was needed to carry the burden of deciding how they should live their lives
- slavery was never the issue, it was about being having the freedom to enslave a human being
- slavery actually made black people stronger and better (Jimmy The Greek's comments)
- slavery was actually quite a good set up for the slave, so much money was poured into 'maintaining' them
- slavery was a bad deal for the owner, not the slave, the masters incurred a huge hit to their wallets, just to keep slaves,.. when are the children of the slave owners going to get reimbursed???

You know, for something that we are told we should just drop and not speak of, since it happened so long ago, there sure are always new arguments for it,..

:hmm: