Why can't the CIA capture the 9 other most wanted fugitives?

[The Green Bean]

This was discussed on one of the Pakistani talk shows I was watching. Pakistan has been severely critisised for not being able to find OBL who was hiding within their territory. So why have the collected American intelligence agencies failed to capture the other 9 shown here?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten

Some have been active for more than 10 years in the USA, and some have been committing crimes regularly. Does this mean the CIA, FBI and NSA are either (i) incompetent or (ii) plotting with the criminals?

 

[Brigandier]

The CIA can't operate inside the US borders.

 

[JEDIYoda]

This was discussed on one of the Pakistani talk shows I was watching. Pakistan has been severely critisised for not being able to find OBL who was hiding within their territory. So why have the collected American intelligence agencies failed to capture the other 9 shown here?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten

Some have been active for more than 10 years in the USA, and some have been committing crimes regularly. Does this mean the CIA, FBI and NSA are either (i) incompetent or (ii) plotting with the criminals?

stop your trolling!!
You have no clue what you are talking about!

 

[bfdd]

lol... you're asking why the CIA, which doesn't operate in the USA, doesn't capture people on the FBI's most wanted list which is a completely different entity? Also, these are our own home grown fugitives, they are not comparable to an enemy combatant which we were engaged in a war with. Your country was harboring our enemy. That makes whomever in your country who was harboring him our enemy. Does Pakistan want to be our enemy?

 

[The Green Bean]

lol... you're asking why the CIA, which doesn't operate in the USA, doesn't capture people on the FBI's most wanted list which is a completely different entity? Also, these are our own home grown fugitives, they are not comparable to an enemy combatant which we were engaged in a war with. Your country was harboring our enemy. That makes whomever in your country who was harboring him our enemy. Does Pakistan want to be our enemy?

What agency operates where is beside the main point. Why has America, with all its superior intelligence (whether it be CIA or FBI or whichever agency...), been unable to capture those fugitives? The first question is about capability, not intention. If they have the capability why have they not caught them? If they don't, why have the Pakistanis been blamed for not capturing a criminal inside their territory. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Lemon law]

stop your trolling!!
You have no clue what you are talking about!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In short, JediY you have no honest rebuttal and no logic to stand on, so you resort to telling TGB to shut up and stop, because you have nothing else you can say. Of course at least you did not yet resort to TGB Mushrooms and a Condo in Gaza, or are you just holding that further desperation lack of logic in reserve.

 

[Lemon law]

The CIA can't operate inside the US borders.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sad truth is that the CIA is not supposed to operate inside of the US borders, but as has been demonstrated they too often do.

 

[Lemon law]

In terms of finding a logical basis for the USA being critical of Pakistani co-operation we need look no further than the Pakistani ISI. There have been countless examples where the US intel has shared known terrorists locations with their Pakistani counterparts, and almost always before those terrorists can be nabbed, they are evidently forewarned and escape.

The problem with that as proof in the case of OBL, is that there is no evidence YET one way or the other that anyone in the ISI knew the location of OBL either.

In the case of the 9 on the FBI list, its quite clear that many of them get organized crime support, move around, and often shelter in foreign countries. As long as they don't stir up local trouble, or get stopped in some routine traffic bust, the only other way they are often nabbed is for some ordinary citizen to see their face and ID them. As for the CIA, they bought a nearby house and had been watching since last August, and as we now know, in eight months they never saw OBL show his face even once.

And if the Pakistani ISI was so damn good at protecting OBL, why didn't they detect and arrest the CIA agents that bought the house next door on the sneak?

 

[TechAZ]

They probably ran off to Pakistan.

 

[zinfamous]

It's because they are obviously in Pakistan.

also, yeah, CIA doesn't work here.

 

[JEDIYoda]

In short, JediY you have no honest rebuttal and no logic to stand on, so you resort to telling TGB to shut up and stop, because you have nothing else you can say. Of course at least you did not yet resort to TGB Mushrooms and a Condo in Gaza, or are you just holding that further desperation lack of logic in reserve.

What i said was more substatial than any logic or prediction that you could ever rant about...

 

[MomentsofSanity]

This was discussed on one of the Pakistani talk shows I was watching. Pakistan has been severely critisised for not being able to find OBL who was hiding within their territory. So why have the collected American intelligence agencies failed to capture the other 9 shown here?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten

Some have been active for more than 10 years in the USA, and some have been committing crimes regularly. Does this mean the CIA, FBI and NSA are either (i) incompetent or (ii) plotting with the criminals?

That list has seen about 500 people listed in it's history with almost a 95% capture/locate success rate. They're doing just fine.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

What agency operates where is beside the main point. Why has America, with all its superior intelligence (whether it be CIA or FBI or whichever agency...), been unable to capture those fugitives? The first question is about capability, not intention. If they have the capability why have they not caught them? If they don't, why have the Pakistanis been blamed for not capturing a criminal inside their territory. Doesn't make sense.

Because they hide well. If you go off the grid and don't use credit cards or put yourself where you are likely to be identified just how are you supposed to be traced? We're 300 million people who can move however we wish and don't require papers.

Ain't easy.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In terms of finding a logical basis for the USA being critical of Pakistani co-operation we need look no further than the Pakistani ISI. There have been countless examples where the US intel has shared known terrorists locations with their Pakistani counterparts, and almost always before those terrorists can be nabbed, they are evidently forewarned and escape. The problem with that as proof in the case of OBL, is that there is no evidence YET one way or the other that anyone in the ISI knew the location of OBL either.

A real difference between the ISI and the FBI is they can kill you openly. The ISI supports Al Qaeda for it's own purposes. They aren't the FBI they are the Shah's secret police.

 

[NoStateofMind]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In short, JediY you have no honest rebuttal and no logic to stand on, so you resort to telling TGB to shut up and stop, because you have nothing else you can say.

But thats normal for him. Rarely, if ever adds anything of value to the topic. Dead space IMO.

On the topic though. I think the reason we haven't found them is because (other than their "wanted" status) they really don't care. It was all fear tactics to usher in a new era of war. Just like the drug war its never ending and thus ever expanding. If we wanted them, we would have them, end of story.

 

[sportage]

Well this points out one important issue. The right wing anti Obama group are saying "Hey, the Bush era water boarding was the trick getting OBL". But in fact this thread proves that NOT TRUE. As Obama supporters have been saying, the success in getting OBL was NOT a simple case of Bush era water boarding. That actually had nothing to do with getting OBL. The success was hard investigation and fact following over the last 3 years. NOT bad info from water boarding some guy 6+ years ago.
Finding and getting to these terrorist is not a simple process, as GW Bush supporters would want everyone to believe. Those Fox news talking heads. Blow hards.
Finding and having any success is a long hard intelligence gathering process. ""Reliable intelligence"". Fact finding. Torture and water boarding had absolutely NOTHING to do with getting OBL, nor will it have any role in finding other terrorist.

The "give Bush the credit" right wing wish it were so simple as to just water board someone, get reliable info out of them, and directly make connections.
It doesn't, has NEVER worked that way.
Thank God Obama is a president that knows his business. Knows how to lead.
If GW were still in office, we'd NEVER have taken out OBL to this very day.

This myth where republicans are hard on crime and terrorism is just that, a myth.
Now that Obama is president, maybe we can finally gain the upper hand on terrorism and put a number on the final days of organized terrorism against Americans.
For that, President Obama not only deserves full credit, Obama is the master architect in getting that job done. And done correctly. Thank God...!

The price we as a country have paid under Bush was a high price, very high price. Wasted money, lost lives, misguided invasions, and plain stupidity.
That is now finally over under President Obama's leadership.

 

[Double Trouble]

Comparing the FBI's most wanted list with OBL makes no sense. OBL was the most wanted man in the world. The folks on the FBI list can probably move around and walk around anywhere in the country and likely not be recognized by anyone. OBL on the other hand would be recognized by anyone. There's absolutely no doubt that at least certain elements within the ISI are terrorist helpers. The only question is how far up the chain the support for OBL went.

Heck a pretty good portion of the people of Pakistan are islamist crazies and supportive of terrorists, it would be hard to imagine that the ISI is any different.

 

[Craig234]

Some answers include:

The US has a double standard of 'don't use a lot of intrusive avtivities against us, but you can do almost whatever you like to anyone else for us.'

And, that the resources put into OBL are hugely more - really, billions - than anything put into any criminal in the US.

OBL was practically treated as a superpower threat for our resources on him.

Remember what was key to his capture, one single phone call his courier made a fatal mistake having, that was monitored and used. We don't do that here.

We don't have a fleet of drones in the skies of the US.

 

[Lemon law]

That list has seen about 500 people listed in it's history with almost a 95% capture/locate success rate. They're doing just fine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Three factors punch some holes in the that doing fine contention.

1. An over all 95% capture locate may be somewhat impressive over a thirty year term, but if we look at the other 9 on the FBI list, some have have been on the list longer than Bin Laden.
And if we scan the average for the 9 other on the list, rapid results ain't exactly the FBI's forte.

2. Ten years ago Bin Laden was not even in Pakistan, and we may never know exactly where OBL was in the interim until he moved into his safe house only five or six years ago. So at best the ISI had a chance for only five or six years. And as sportage pointed out, it was only a somewhat lucky break by very careful Obama era policework that led us to OBL. US policework we did not make Pakistan privy to.

3. We have to realize, at least in terms of the USA, getting OBL had a much much higher priority than anyone ever on the most wanted list.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Some answers include:

The US has a double standard of 'don't use a lot of intrusive avtivities against us, but you can do almost whatever you like to anyone else for us.'

And, that the resources put into OBL are hugely more - really, billions - than anything put into any criminal in the US.

OBL was practically treated as a superpower threat for our resources on him.

Remember what was key to his capture, one single phone call his courier made a fatal mistake having, that was monitored and used. We don't do that here.

We don't have a fleet of drones in the skies of the US.

The correct answer is that the CIA has no authority to act in the US and the others on the list pale in significance to the damage Al Qaeda has done and can do. That answers why resources were allocated as they were.

As has already been explained it's not easy to find needles in haystacks, which is what a few people among hundreds of millions amounts to.

 

[Lemon law]

As this thread after 20 posts and a lot of words goes on and on, we this thread do little of nothing to really answer the the very important OP question.

And that question is and remains, DO WE IN THE USA HAVE ANY REAL JUSTIFICATION TO BLAME PAKISTAN FOR OBL NOT BEING CAUGHT EARLIER?????????

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

As this thread after 20 posts and a lot of words goes on and on, we this thread do little of nothing to really answer the the very important OP question.

And that question is and remains, DO WE IN THE USA HAVE ANY REAL JUSTIFICATION TO BLAME PAKISTAN FOR OBL NOT BEING CAUGHT EARLIER?????????

Which Pakistan?

 

[irishScott]

The Green Bean: "HAHAHA you got Osama Bin Laden but America still sucks nah, nah, nah nah, nah bla bla bla haha stupid Americas I smartest than you!!!!!!"

Stop trolling and go educate yourself. The CIA, NSA and military have no jurisdiction in the US mainland outside of their own bases (unless you count the Coast Guard). We also don't have secret police, papers, warrantless searches, etc. If you live a spartan life it's pretty easy to hide.

And Pakistan hasn't been criticized because OBL was in Pakistan, it's been criticized because he was living in a large compound 1000 yards away from a military base. In a country whose government supposedly rules with an iron fist in a lot of ways (certainly much more so than here in the US), that level of incompetence, corruption, or whatever combination is kinda embarrassing.

 

[Lanyap]

No one on that list even comes close to what OBL did.

As this thread after 20 posts and a lot of words goes on and on, we this thread do little of nothing to really answer the the very important OP question.

And that question is and remains, DO WE IN THE USA HAVE ANY REAL JUSTIFICATION TO BLAME PAKISTAN FOR OBL NOT BEING CAUGHT EARLIER?????????

Yes. If one of the most highly saught international terrorist was found in the US you would blame the US.

 

[SandEagle]

they're all living in Pakistan, wearing burqas to avoid getting captured. jk yaar