Why can't people re-invent themselves?

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: her209
Entitlement mentality.

This is what I was going to say. If I lost my job right now, I'd have no problem bagging groceries of flipping burgers to make ends meet until I found another job in my career. I don't see what the big deal is I guess.

Would the employers even hire someone they perceived to be vastly overqualified for the position?

IMO it's all about the presentation. I'd be honest and say I was laid off and looking for a job to fill in the gap. Some managers would turn me away and others wouldn't. I would find something to make it work.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Oh ya, they got what they deserved!!!!!1111!!!!rage :roll:

Ya, they'll go do crap Jobs, some of them anyway. Others won't even be able to find them. With all those Good Jobs gone, even many Crap Jobs will cease to exist. Somebody has to have the money to Spend to support the Crap Jobs.

Exactly. If The Economy Is Shit, Finding Jobs Will Be Harder To Do. EvEn cRaPpY JObS wILl bE hARd To COMe bY.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: her209
Entitlement mentality.

This is what I was going to say. If I lost my job right now, I'd have no problem bagging groceries of flipping burgers to make ends meet until I found another job in my career. I don't see what the big deal is I guess.

The "big" deal is probably dignity, pride and entitlement. When I started looking for a job, it was "I want to find my own job, all by my own, not help from networking" and "I'm a graduate, I no way I'll do anything less".

Well, after about 1 month of failure, I started applying to admin/office jobs with suck-ass salaries. Desperation kicks in quicker for some. During the summer, my volunteer supervisor offered to talk to her friend about getting me a job, I was stupid enough to refuse. Once I go back when it gets warm again, I'm bringing my resume on day one.

I was alluding to the pride and entitlement problem. I agree most of the people who complain about being laid off and not being able to find work suffer from it. I have a wife, house, rental property, and all of the normal responsibilities of an adult, but if I was laid off I would do whatever it takes to get by. We save so we would be ok for a while, but I'd still take any job I could get to earn a paycheck. It doesn't make sense to me any other way.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
What are you, 14?

I concur. I'm the OP of that 'pathetic' thread. I'm 27, have my BA, and 100k in debt. I've helped a ton of people as a counselor in the past, but there are just no jobs now. I've applied for jobs in hospitals, counseling centers, housing communities, restaurants, labs, colleges, universities, consulting firms, market research labs, bars, restaurants, the government, and psychologist's offices just to name a few.

Mr. Pickles do you actually think you can feed a family bagging groceries? Is that 'manning up' watching your family live out of a homeless shelter? Is that 'taking a hit' for you? What are you fucking 12?

That thread was pathetic.

Again, no sympathy, sorry but you aren't looking hard enough or daring enough to take chances (such as moving, if it really comes down to it. I don't know your story in full, moving might not be for you. Doesn't sound like you're having any luck where you are at anyway) to secure you and your family with a job that pays the bare minimum expenses.

You bash bagging groceries but you've applied at a bar and restaurant? Granted they make more than a grocery bagger but they fall under the same definition: a job.

I'm assuming you have a family. What's the minimum bi-weekly pay check you would need in order to support you and your family, excluding all of the bullshit you pay for and enjoy now such as the internet, cable, the car you drive, etc. You'd be surprised at how little you can live on during dire, emergency times.

Find a job that pays that minimum and take the hit. It can be done.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: yllus
The older you are, the less employers are willing to take you on because you may not be around for very long.

If you have a wife or kids, you may find it difficult to move and take them away from their schools, lives and jobs.

Getting an education when you're married and have to fetch groceries, work at the same time and care for the kids can be difficult - even before considering the high costs usually involved.

Talk is easy. Doing what you're speaking of usually isn't.

I think its easier than people think. I just don't think people are daring enough.

And therein lies the problem - you "think" its easier. Until you've had to do it, with the pressures of kids, mortgages, college tuition, your parents needing help in their old age, AND YOU getting older (say over 40 maybe?), then you don't really know do you? The pressure to provide that security to yourself and your family is HUGE, so the ability to "man up" and start a new career when you've already got say 25-30yrs in your current one isn't as easy as just waking up one day and doing it. Can it be done? Of course, but it takes planning, time, resources, support of your family, sacrifice on their part as well as your own, and that level of effort just isn't in the cards for many people.

If you're single with no one to be responsible for I'd agree with you, particularly looking at the thread you referenced. But don't apply that broad brush to an older worker with a family to support.

Why not? Why is it just not in the cards? I think its in the cards for everyone. I just don't think people realize all of their options.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..the liberal media has been talking down the economy for the last 8 years. they'll do a flip when the obama is the seat. then it'll be all your fault you'er failing not the obama.

THREAD CRAP THREAD CRAP THREAD CRAP! WOOO WOOO WOOO WOOO

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: Descartes
I've thought about it. The trouble is there's almost nothing I could ever do to come close to making what I make now, and it makes little sense to throw everything away.

It's a far different story when you get laid off and are in dire straights. It's another to willfully give everything up and start over.

For me, my goals are to maximize my earnings while I can and use that to essentially fund my other initiatives a little later. I'd rather pay more dues now and enjoy more freedom later.

Right. It is a different story, but you can swim out of both issues. Maybe there isn't anything that you could ever do that could come close to what you are making now, but there are a lot of things that you can do to reduce your standard of living (if you needed to) so you could survive making something less.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Imp

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: her209
Entitlement mentality.

This is what I was going to say. If I lost my job right now, I'd have no problem bagging groceries of flipping burgers to make ends meet until I found another job in my career. I don't see what the big deal is I guess.

The "big" deal is probably dignity, pride and entitlement. When I started looking for a job, it was "I want to find my own job, all by my own, not help from networking" and "I'm a graduate, I no way I'll do anything less".

Well, after about 1 month of failure, I started applying to admin/office jobs with suck-ass salaries. Desperation kicks in quicker for some. During the summer, my volunteer supervisor offered to talk to her friend about getting me a job, I was stupid enough to refuse. Once I go back when it gets warm again, I'm bringing my resume on day one.

I was alluding to the pride and entitlement problem. I agree most of the people who complain about being laid off and not being able to find work suffer from it. I have a wife, house, rental property, and all of the normal responsibilities of an adult, but if I was laid off I would do whatever it takes to get by. We save so we would be ok for a while, but I'd still take any job I could get to earn a paycheck. It doesn't make sense to me any other way.

Nor does it make sense to me any other way as well. You do what you have to in order to provide. You move on, even if it means doing something that puts you in a stalemate in regards to career progression. And even if it means doing something you never thought you would find yourself doing.

 

[wwswimming]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles
Inspired by this pathetic thread right here.

I'm sorry. I just don't have sympathy for people that aren't willing to either lose a bit of dignity and take a random job to pay the bills or re-invent themselves and begin another career path with a focus on a different trade.

i'd like to see that thinking applied to about 200,000 financial services industry
professionals. you know, the bank managers that gave themselves big bonuses
using the federal bail-out money.

i don't think the auto workers got a shortfall in the "manning up" department,
but i do think the recipients of our tax largesse via bail-out do.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: racolvin

And therein lies the problem - you "think" its easier. Until you've had to do it, with the pressures of kids, mortgages, college tuition, your parents needing help in their old age, AND YOU getting older (say over 40 maybe?), then you don't really know do you? The pressure to provide that security to yourself and your family is HUGE, so the ability to "man up" and start a new career when you've already got say 25-30yrs in your current one isn't as easy as just waking up one day and doing it. Can it be done? Of course, but it takes planning, time, resources, support of your family, sacrifice on their part as well as your own, and that level of effort just isn't in the cards for many people.

If you're single with no one to be responsible for I'd agree with you, particularly looking at the thread you referenced. But don't apply that broad brush to an older worker with a family to support.

Why not? Why is it just not in the cards? I think its in the cards for everyone. I just don't think people realize all of their options.

There you go with that "I think .." stuff again. Until you yourself have had to do it and face the issues some of these folks face, it's all an academic exercise in your head. It's not in the cards for some people because they can't just change their lives on a whim - their entire identity, their ego, their sense of self, is wrapped up with the pressures to provide at the same level or higher that they have in the past. It's one thing to get laid off and have to find any sort of work just for a bit of cash flow, it's an entirely different thing to say "ya know, I think I'll reinvent myself next week.."

Yes, making a living may require you to make sacrifices to put a roof over your head and food on the table. If I had to have 3 part time jobs and move across the country to care for my family I'd do it in a heartbeat. But that's me and I don't have my entire sense of self-worth tied to my job, but other people do. Their job, their career they've built, education they pursued, everything is tied together and it's not a simple thing for them to unravel them.

Being flippant and saying "man up and do it" may be the correct statement if you know that someone could be working and isn't just because they're ego tells them they're "too good" for a job like that. In that instance, I agree with you. But "reinventing" oneself and changing careers is another matter entirely ...

 

[Wheezer]

Career, job...does it really matter where the money comes from when the bills are due?

Everyone starts out at a job...only after time does it become a career.

I don't see what the problem is.....if I had to I would pick up garbage for a living to pay the bills

good money
decent hours

hell with the way they do things now you rarely have to touch it....wheel the can to the back of the truck, and let the hydraulic arm do the hard work.

by 2 p.m. you're done and home.

is it glamorous?
high profile?
something to brag about?

probably not but then neither is being homeless and addicted to crack.

I would rather throw away other peoples shit than have to eat it to stay alive.

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles
Inspired by this pathetic thread right here.

I'm sorry. I just don't have sympathy for people that aren't willing to either lose a bit of dignity and take a random job to pay the bills or re-invent themselves and begin another career path with a focus on a different trade.

For example, here's my take on the auto industry: The people that sat back, loving life working in the auto industry making thousands of dollars more than they are worth are finally going to get what's coming to them. If you depend on something other than your own hard working will, such as a union, to protect yourself from the indignities of your employer then you deserve everything that happens to you.

That being said, how hard is it to re-invent yourself? I'm not saying you need to flip burgers, but its about time people realize that the trade you may have learned years and years ago can now be done faster, cheaper, better. Or its time to realize that what you went to school for, like IT, is a flooded market right now and you need to be willing to look towards other careers.

I don't care how old you are. I don't care about how many kids you have. I don't care about what lifestyle you've built for yourself. I don't care about the standard of living you think you deserve. Sometimes you need to take a hit, man up and take a fucking hit.

Or how hard is it to just lay low for a bit and get a job bagging groceries until you find what you are looking for?

People have this "the world is ending" idea when they lose their job or can't find another one. I could just imagine people in suits and ties starving to death right in front of a Home Depot that says "now hiring" on the window.

Edited for spelling.

When you are young, the world is black and white. It is nice to have the luxury of seeing things so clearly and having no doubt in your conclusions. Get back to us when you have a little more life experience.

p.s. for the record, I believe you have some great points, they just get lost in the black/white fervor...

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

There appears to be some confusion over coping with unemployment and re inventing yourself which, is a whole nutter critter. Coping is simply the willingness do anything for gainful employment to pay the bills. Some folks have it and some don't. Re inventing yourself means to completely change skill sets in order to pursue a different career. I liken the unwillingness of people to re invent themselves to the unwillingness of people to relocate a significant distance from home.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles
Inspired by this pathetic thread right here.

I'm sorry. I just don't have sympathy for people that aren't willing to either lose a bit of dignity and take a random job to pay the bills or re-invent themselves and begin another career path with a focus on a different trade.

For example, here's my take on the auto industry: The people that sat back, loving life working in the auto industry making thousands of dollars more than they are worth are finally going to get what's coming to them. If you depend on something other than your own hard working will, such as a union, to protect yourself from the indignities of your employer then you deserve everything that happens to you.

That being said, how hard is it to re-invent yourself? I'm not saying you need to flip burgers, but its about time people realize that the trade you may have learned years and years ago can now be done faster, cheaper, better. Or its time to realize that what you went to school for, like IT, is a flooded market right now and you need to be willing to look towards other careers.

I don't care how old you are. I don't care about how many kids you have. I don't care about what lifestyle you've built for yourself. I don't care about the standard of living you think you deserve. Sometimes you need to take a hit, man up and take a fucking hit.

Or how hard is it to just lay low for a bit and get a job bagging groceries until you find what you are looking for?

People have this "the world is ending" idea when they lose their job or can't find another one. I could just imagine people in suits and ties starving to death right in front of a Home Depot that says "now hiring" on the window.

Edited for spelling.

When you are young, the world is black and white. It is nice to have the luxury of seeing things so clearly and having no doubt in your conclusions. Get back to us when you have a little more life experience.

p.s. for the record, I believe you have some great points, they just get lost in the black/white fervor...

Don't patronize me. The black and white is that everyone is capable of surviving. The cases are different for each individual, but I can't agree with the "some people just don't have those options." Not to say it suffices, but my father made those choices for us when he gave up his slow commercial irrigation company and started driving a taxi to pay the bills. Granted, thats not me at the lead of that decision but I was effected by it and experienced it. Its harder for others in different situations but like it or not the black\white fervor you're talking about is there, it's fact.

p.s. Thank you.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

I was alluding to the pride and entitlement problem. I agree most of the people who complain about being laid off and not being able to find work suffer from it. I have a wife, house, rental property, and all of the normal responsibilities of an adult, but if I was laid off I would do whatever it takes to get by. We save so we would be ok for a while, but I'd still take any job I could get to earn a paycheck. It doesn't make sense to me any other way.

Nor does it make sense to me any other way as well. You do what you have to in order to provide. You move on, even if it means doing something that puts you in a stalemate in regards to career progression. And even if it means doing something you never thought you would find yourself doing.

I'm not sure what the American statistics are, but in Canada, I think a recent survey said that something along the lines of 47% of "adults" under 30 are still living at home. This generation younger CAN afford to hold back, and many never have to worry about doing whatever it takes to provide. Let's not even get into the having kids at later ages thing...

 

[Fritzo]

I see what you're saying. I went to school with a lot of kids that said "I don't need college, I'm going to work at Jeep/GM/Ford/etc.". A full generation of people expected to get high wages for low skill labor. Unions made it worse, and now that the well has dried up, they're all saying "If you don't pay me $30/hr to put bolts on a car, what else am I going to do?"

Manufacturing in the US is drying up. People expect too much money for too little labor. Other countries are happy to get ANY money for working, therefore can make things much more cheaply and efficiently than the US can.

The US is eventually going to be the leader in services. People eventually are going to look at us for expertise, and other countries to put our ideas into practice. The problem with other countries looking at us for expertise is that it requires everyone to have a high amount of education. Therefore, Joe Factoryworker is going to end up on the low end of the payscale.

 

[brandonbull]

Good luck finding a real job while working double shifts flipping burgers. I'm sure a potential employer would like to know that you currently sling fries.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: brandonbull
Good luck finding a real job while working double shifts flipping burgers. I'm sure a potential employer would like to know that you currently sling fries.

If you have something valuable to offer, there are ways to work past your current situation.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: brandonbull
Good luck finding a real job while working double shifts flipping burgers. I'm sure a potential employer would like to know that you currently sling fries.

If you have something valuable to offer, there are ways to work past your current situation.

So what have you done when times got tough? Please, enlighten us.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: brandonbull
Good luck finding a real job while working double shifts flipping burgers. I'm sure a potential employer would like to know that you currently sling fries.

If you have something valuable to offer, there are ways to work past your current situation.

So what have you done when times got tough? Please, enlighten us.

I simply stated that if you truly have something valuable to offer, the fact that you could be flipping burgers isn't really what is holding you back. If the economy is bad and there are no jobs, there isn't much you can do, but when it starts to get better you can present yourself to an employer and explain your current job situation while selling your skills. In the mean time, you could be stuck flipping burgers and there is nothing wrong with this unless you have an ego problem. This isn't very complicated.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles
Inspired by this pathetic thread right here.

I'm sorry. I just don't have sympathy for people that aren't willing to either lose a bit of dignity and take a random job to pay the bills or re-invent themselves and begin another career path with a focus on a different trade.

For example, here's my take on the auto industry: The people that sat back, loving life working in the auto industry making thousands of dollars more than they are worth are finally going to get what's coming to them. If you depend on something other than your own hard working will, such as a union, to protect yourself from the indignities of your employer then you deserve everything that happens to you.

That being said, how hard is it to re-invent yourself? I'm not saying you need to flip burgers, but its about time people realize that the trade you may have learned years and years ago can now be done faster, cheaper, better. Or its time to realize that what you went to school for, like IT, is a flooded market right now and you need to be willing to look towards other careers.

I don't care how old you are. I don't care about how many kids you have. I don't care about what lifestyle you've built for yourself. I don't care about the standard of living you think you deserve. Sometimes you need to take a hit, man up and take a fucking hit.

Or how hard is it to just lay low for a bit and get a job bagging groceries until you find what you are looking for?

People have this "the world is ending" idea when they lose their job or can't find another one. I could just imagine people in suits and ties starving to death right in front of a Home Depot that says "now hiring" on the window.

Edited for spelling.

most older people cant learn new things.

ie: computer, much less trying to be tech support

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
What are you, 14?

I concur. I'm the OP of that 'pathetic' thread. I'm 27, have my BA, and 100k in debt. I've helped a ton of people as a counselor in the past, but there are just no jobs now. I've applied for jobs in hospitals, counseling centers, housing communities, restaurants, labs, colleges, universities, consulting firms, market research labs, bars, restaurants, the government, and psychologist's offices just to name a few.

Mr. Pickles do you actually think you can feed a family bagging groceries? Is that 'manning up' watching your family live out of a homeless shelter? Is that 'taking a hit' for you? What are you fucking 12?

That thread was pathetic.

Again, no sympathy, sorry but you aren't looking hard enough or daring enough to take chances (such as moving, if it really comes down to it. I don't know your story in full, moving might not be for you. Doesn't sound like you're having any luck where you are at anyway) to secure you and your family with a job that pays the bare minimum expenses.

You bash bagging groceries but you've applied at a bar and restaurant? Granted they make more than a grocery bagger but they fall under the same definition: a job.

I'm assuming you have a family. What's the minimum bi-weekly pay check you would need in order to support you and your family, excluding all of the bullshit you pay for and enjoy now such as the internet, cable, the car you drive, etc. You'd be surprised at how little you can live on during dire, emergency times.

Find a job that pays that minimum and take the hit. It can be done.

Most people have leases if they rent. I'd still be on the hook. You need money to move. I didn't bash grocery baggers I said I can't even get jobs like that at this point. I would need a minimum of 281.96/week to survive.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Find a job that pays that minimum and take the hit. It can be done.

Finding a minimum wage job around here would take some doing. Even the fast food places have big banners up saying that they are hiring all shifts, looking for managers, et cetera, and they are offering a few bucks above minimum wage for even basic burger flipping, with cash bonus incentives if you work for them a minimum amount of time once hired.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Find a job that pays that minimum and take the hit. It can be done.

Finding a minimum wage job around here would take some doing. Even the fast food places have big banners up saying that they are hiring all shifts, looking for managers, et cetera, and they are offering a few bucks above minimum wage for even basic burger flipping, with cash bonus incentives if you work for them a minimum amount of time once hired.

Read that again dude I didn't say find a job that pays minimum wage. I said find a job that pays the minimum that would need in order to support your current situation. That's not always going to be minimum wage.

 

[Mr Pickles]

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: Mr Pickles

Originally posted by: DomS

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
What are you, 14?

I concur. I'm the OP of that 'pathetic' thread. I'm 27, have my BA, and 100k in debt. I've helped a ton of people as a counselor in the past, but there are just no jobs now. I've applied for jobs in hospitals, counseling centers, housing communities, restaurants, labs, colleges, universities, consulting firms, market research labs, bars, restaurants, the government, and psychologist's offices just to name a few.

Mr. Pickles do you actually think you can feed a family bagging groceries? Is that 'manning up' watching your family live out of a homeless shelter? Is that 'taking a hit' for you? What are you fucking 12?

That thread was pathetic.

Again, no sympathy, sorry but you aren't looking hard enough or daring enough to take chances (such as moving, if it really comes down to it. I don't know your story in full, moving might not be for you. Doesn't sound like you're having any luck where you are at anyway) to secure you and your family with a job that pays the bare minimum expenses.

You bash bagging groceries but you've applied at a bar and restaurant? Granted they make more than a grocery bagger but they fall under the same definition: a job.

I'm assuming you have a family. What's the minimum bi-weekly pay check you would need in order to support you and your family, excluding all of the bullshit you pay for and enjoy now such as the internet, cable, the car you drive, etc. You'd be surprised at how little you can live on during dire, emergency times.

Find a job that pays that minimum and take the hit. It can be done.

Most people have leases if they rent. I'd still be on the hook. You need money to move. I didn't bash grocery baggers I said I can't even get jobs like that at this point. I would need a minimum of 281.96/week to survive.

You would need a minimum of 281.96 a week to survive? Minimum wage gets you 320 before taxes. Dude, you can find a job.