Why can't DVD manufacturers get widescreen DVDs right?

[NuclearNed]

Every DVD I buy is in letterbox format. Every single one. And the problem I have with them is common to every last one of them.

With virtually all widescreen DVD's, I put my Sony 16x9 tv in "FULL" mode, which means that the movie is not stretched or skewed in any way. This works fine for the movie, but all the bonus features (including theatrical trailers, interviews, etc.) are always encoded in a different format, even if the content is in letterbox. This means I have to put the tv in a different stretch mode, and the video ends up looking like crap.

Why the crap can't the DVD manufacturer encode every single frame of content onto the DVD in the same way??? WHY??? WHY??? WHY???

 

[tk149]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Every DVD I buy is in letterbox format. Every single one. And the problem I have with them is common to every last one of them.

With virtually all widescreen DVD's, I put my Sony 16x9 tv in "FULL" mode, which means that the movie is not stretched or skewed in any way. This works fine for the movie, but all the bonus features (including theatrical trailers, interviews, etc.) are always encoded in a different format, even if the content is in letterbox. This means I have to put the tv in a different stretch mode, and the video ends up looking like crap.

Why the crap can't the DVD manufacturer encode every single frame of content onto the DVD in the same way??? WHY??? WHY??? WHY???

Just to piss you off.

That, or it costs money.

 

[Viper GTS]

Money, simple as that.

Why spend the money to produce two versions of everything when there is no return on that money? Besides, the people that really care about the anamorphic, high bitrate widescreen presentation probably don't give a sh!t about the extras being in 4:3 (letterboxed or not).

Viper GTS

 

[RaDragon]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Money, simple as that.

Why spend the money to produce two versions of everything when there is no return on that money? Besides, the people that really care about the anamorphic, high bitrate widescreen presentation probably don't give a sh!t about the extras being in 4:3 (letterboxed or not).

Viper GTS

^^ This guy has wisdom.

The "extras" are extras for a reason, and unless you have a super-uber-special edition DVD, then the extras won't be in the same screen format as the movie.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Money, simple as that.

Why spend the money to produce two versions of everything when there is no return on that money? Besides, the people that really care about the anamorphic, high bitrate widescreen presentation probably don't give a sh!t about the extras being in 4:3 (letterboxed or not).

Viper GTS

I think you missed the point by just a hair, so here is an example.

I watched part of Shrek 2 during my lunch break today. All the video (both the movie and the extras) were in letterbox format. The difference (and I may be describing this incorrectly) is that the "black bars" on the film are not actually encoded as part of the film - i.e. they don't take up any information on the disc. However, on the extras, the black bars are encoded as part of the mpeg video, thus taking away precious storage space from the actual video information. And this makes the video on the extras look like crap, as well as the fact that I have to readjust my zoom mode to make the video display in the proper aspect ratio.

 

[lancestorm]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Money, simple as that.

Why spend the money to produce two versions of everything when there is no return on that money? Besides, the people that really care about the anamorphic, high bitrate widescreen presentation probably don't give a sh!t about the extras being in 4:3 (letterboxed or not).

Viper GTS

I think you missed the point by just a hair, so here is an example.

I watched part of Shrek 2 during my lunch break today. All the video (both the movie and the extras) were in letterbox format. The difference (and I may be describing this incorrectly) is that the "black bars" on the film are not actually encoded as part of the film - i.e. they don't take up any information on the disc. However, on the extras, the black bars are encoded as part of the mpeg video, thus taking away precious storage space from the actual video information. And this makes the video on the extras look like crap, as well as the fact that I have to readjust my zoom mode to make the video display in the proper aspect ratio.

I have never ever seen anything like what you are talking about...

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Money, simple as that.

Why spend the money to produce two versions of everything when there is no return on that money? Besides, the people that really care about the anamorphic, high bitrate widescreen presentation probably don't give a sh!t about the extras being in 4:3 (letterboxed or not).

Viper GTS

I think you missed the point by just a hair, so here is an example.

I watched part of Shrek 2 during my lunch break today. All the video (both the movie and the extras) were in letterbox format. The difference (and I may be describing this incorrectly) is that the "black bars" on the film are not actually encoded as part of the film - i.e. they don't take up any information on the disc. However, on the extras, the black bars are encoded as part of the mpeg video, thus taking away precious storage space from the actual video information. And this makes the video on the extras look like crap, as well as the fact that I have to readjust my zoom mode to make the video display in the proper aspect ratio.

No, I got your point completely.

Same basic issue, the feature presentation is anamorphic whereas the rest is not.

The extras are letterboxed widescreen, producing a 4:3 final frame. They can then use the same exact data on the FS version of the DVD.

It costs money to do another transfer.

Viper GTS

 

[DurocShark]

How many pushes of buttons on your remote control while you're sitting on your A$$ on the couch does it take to change your TV's perspective?

:roll:

 

[NuclearNed]

<sigh> it always boils down to money. I hate fullscreen.

 

[ActuaryTm]

Originally posted by: tk149
Just to piss you off.

While the monetary costs seem logical, the above is the real reason.

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: DurocShark
How many pushes of buttons on your remote control while you're sitting on your A$$ on the couch does it take to change your TV's perspective?

:roll:

Its irritating to have to do it just because everyone's grampa refuses to get a widescreen tv.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
<sigh> it always boils down to money. I hate fullscreen.

If you were truly anal (like me) you would want your DVD's without any extras.

I want to be able to buy a DVD that has nothing but an anamorphic OAR presentation + a DTS track. No extras, no Dolby track, no 2.0 track, commentary, or alternate languages.

I don't even need a menu, if they must put a menu I want it static with a solid color background &amp; only one option.

SuperBit is about as close as you can get. Not ideal, but certainly better than the garbage that gets put out in regular release.

Viper GTS

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Money, simple as that.

Why spend the money to produce two versions of everything when there is no return on that money? Besides, the people that really care about the anamorphic, high bitrate widescreen presentation probably don't give a sh!t about the extras being in 4:3 (letterboxed or not).

Viper GTS

I think you missed the point by just a hair, so here is an example.

I watched part of Shrek 2 during my lunch break today. All the video (both the movie and the extras) were in letterbox format. The difference (and I may be describing this incorrectly) is that the "black bars" on the film are not actually encoded as part of the film - i.e. they don't take up any information on the disc. However, on the extras, the black bars are encoded as part of the mpeg video, thus taking away precious storage space from the actual video information. And this makes the video on the extras look like crap, as well as the fact that I have to readjust my zoom mode to make the video display in the proper aspect ratio.

No, I got your point completely.

Same basic issue, the feature presentation is anamorphic whereas the rest is not.

The extras are letterboxed widescreen, producing a 4:3 final frame. They can then use the same exact data on the FS version of the DVD.

It costs money to do another transfer.

Viper GTS

Granted, it is most likely because of a money issue. But it can't be that difficult to do another encode - heck, TMPGENC offers the "enhanced widescreen" encode as a standard feature, and it only takes a few hours to encode a film in this way. So it can't be saving the manufacturers all that much cash.

 

[purbeast0]

get a new tv. my tv seems to not have that problem. anthing that is ws will display in ws when my tv is on. i will still have black bars at top/bottom if the movie ratio is greater than 16:9, but thats kinda obvious since my tv is 16:9, unless i wanted some stretched crap. when the extras are in ws, my tv is also in ws. i guess it 'auto-renders' it or something, i dunno.

 

[nakedfrog]

Sweet! Clothing optional thread! 😀
How much data does a black bar actually require?

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Sweet! Clothing optional thread! 😀
How much data does a black bar actually require?

On some films, I estimate that the black bars take up about a third of the screen size. I don't know how that translates into megabytes, but the point is that all that space could be better used making the actual video content better. I have rented some very old widescreen dvd's that did not have the "enhanced widescreen" encoding, and there was a major loss of video quality noticable.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Sweet! Clothing optional thread! 😀
How much data does a black bar actually require?

DVD has a fixed 4:3 encoding space (720x480 pixels).

Anamorphic widescreen makes use of entire the 4:3 frame to store a 16:9 image, the resultant frame then has to be compressed vertically by 33% to restore the correct aspect ratio. The advantage is an essentially free 33% increas in vertical resolution for widescreen titles (very noticeable difference in quality).

The issue is poor use of available space AND the annoyance of having to switch display modes to move between segments on a DVD.

More info for the geek in you:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/anamorphic/

Viper GTS

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Sweet! Clothing optional thread! 😀
How much data does a black bar actually require?

On some films, I estimate that the black bars take up about a third of the screen size. I don't know how that translates into megabytes, but the point is that all that space could be better used making the actual video content better.

See, I don't think it would take all that much data, as it's constant (with no movement) and is a solid color.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: DurocShark
How many pushes of buttons on your remote control while you're sitting on your A$$ on the couch does it take to change your TV's perspective?

:roll:

Its irritating to have to do it just because everyone's grampa refuses to get a widescreen tv.

ehh im 23 and i refuse to get a WS TV

 

[NuclearNed]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Sweet! Clothing optional thread! 😀
How much data does a black bar actually require?

On some films, I estimate that the black bars take up about a third of the screen size. I don't know how that translates into megabytes, but the point is that all that space could be better used making the actual video content better.

See, I don't think it would take all that much data, as it's constant (with no movement) and is a solid color.

See Viper GTS's post immediately above. There is a definite improvement in the video quality with the anamorphic widescreen enhancement.

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
Sweet! Clothing optional thread! 😀
How much data does a black bar actually require?

On some films, I estimate that the black bars take up about a third of the screen size. I don't know how that translates into megabytes, but the point is that all that space could be better used making the actual video content better.

See, I don't think it would take all that much data, as it's constant (with no movement) and is a solid color.

See my explanation, the data space occupied by the final MPEG compressed frame is meaningless.

Viper GTS

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: DurocShark
How many pushes of buttons on your remote control while you're sitting on your A$$ on the couch does it take to change your TV's perspective?

:roll:

Its irritating to have to do it just because everyone's grampa refuses to get a widescreen tv.

ehh im 23 and i refuse to get a WS TV

i turned 23 last saturday and i purchased my first WS tv last friday.

trust me, you are missing out 🙂

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: DurocShark
How many pushes of buttons on your remote control while you're sitting on your A$$ on the couch does it take to change your TV's perspective?

:roll:

Its irritating to have to do it just because everyone's grampa refuses to get a widescreen tv.

ehh im 23 and i refuse to get a WS TV

i turned 23 last saturday and i purchased my first WS tv last friday.

trust me, you are missing out 🙂

no not really, normal TV looks like crap on a WS TV because its either stretched or only showing on 1/2 the TV, HD TV looks fine but then there are only like 8 HD channels available none of which i watch very often, and i could care less about black bars on DVDs seeing as i watch less then 1 a month, i have not rented a movie in over 3 years and NO i dont download them either

 

[pulse8]

Most extras are shot on video (unless they are deleted scenes) and the video is 4x3.

Most deleted scenes are 4x3 because it's too expensive to retransfer and color the film for the DVD release.

 

[purbeast0]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: purbeast0

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: NuclearNed

Originally posted by: DurocShark
How many pushes of buttons on your remote control while you're sitting on your A$$ on the couch does it take to change your TV's perspective?

:roll:

Its irritating to have to do it just because everyone's grampa refuses to get a widescreen tv.

ehh im 23 and i refuse to get a WS TV

i turned 23 last saturday and i purchased my first WS tv last friday.

trust me, you are missing out 🙂

no not really, normal TV looks like crap on a WS TV because its either stretched or only showing on 1/2 the TV, HD TV looks fine but then there are only like 8 HD channels available none of which i watch very often, and i could care less about black bars on DVDs seeing as i watch less then 1 a month, i have not rented a movie in over 3 years and NO i dont download them either

umm just to let you know, half of 16:9 is not 4:3 ... that would be 8:9 which would be about 2.6:3 ... so its not halfway filling the screen. when you have a 16:9 tv in 4:3 mode, it looks fine. the problem is that if you have such a big tv and you have a normal signal (like comcast), since its so big you realize jst how much noise is in the picture and how crappy the picture is. that would be the same if you have a 50" 4:3 tv, it would look like crap as well. it has nothing to do with the 16:9 thing.

if you are saying the little side bars will bother you, then the bars on top of WS movies must REALLY bother you. the ones on top of the 16:9 movies (on a 4:3 tv) are like 2x or 3x thicker than the ones on the side of a 4:3 show on a 16:9 tv (depending on the aspect of the WS movie).

okay i see if you dont like movies, then yes, that would be pointless to get a WS tv as well, i completely understand that. they are obvoiusly geared more towards movies, and also HD is going in the 16:9 direction too. also, playing games on a WS tv is awesome, giving you more screen space to see things. and having it all in 480p + doesn't hurt 😛