Why can't developers agree on a Savegame location?

[theprodigalrebel]

So I recently got back into PC gaming and things are going great so far. I don't mind updates, figuring out minor OS incompatibilities, haven't really experienced any showstopper bugs or glitches. The ones I did were mostly x64-compatibility fixes and Compatibility Mode, Windows Action Center and Google are a great help with those. But one annoyance I have experienced is the numerous folders that have now cropped up in my Documents folder.

I thought there was some unwritten rule that came into existence after Vista that all games should now use Documents\My Games as the default location for User Data. Now in my Documents folder, I have:

1) My Games
2) Bioshock
3) Electronic Arts (created by The Sims 3 install)
4) FIFA 10 (Couldn't this be in Electronic Arts? It is a EA Sports title after all)
5) Flight Simulator X Files (even Microsoft didn't bother using My Games)
6) Games for Windows - LIVE Demos
7) NFS SHIFT (which is also an Electronic Arts title /facepalm)
8) Rockstar Games (Created by GTA4. Oddly, they only use this folder for Benchmarks, User Music and Videos. Save files are in Users\PROFILENAME\AppData\Local\Rockstar Games. Why? I don't know.)

This is with just the few games I have installed. At least Crysis and Dirt 2 use My Games.

Does this annoy anyone else or am I alone in this?

 

[jlee]

hahaha yeah, I'm now trying to knock out games one by one so I don't have multiple saves to restore (or lose, as I tend to do) when/if I format. It would be nice if they all went in Documents\Save games\****, but that would be too easy...

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I wish that the developers would just forget about the My Games folder and the Application Data folder and put all of the files in one coherent location--a single folder for the game itself. The My Games and Application Data folders are ideas that sound good on paper but just make things too danged complicated in practice.

Unreal Tournament 3 is a good example of all this. If you compare the folders and organization of UT99 or UT 2004 to UT3 you'll see that UT99 and UT 2004 are nice and neat whereas UT3's organization is horrible.

 

[Bateluer]

I wish that the developers would just forget about the My Games folder and the Application Data folder and put all of the files in one coherent location--a single folder for the game itself. The My Games and Application Data folders are ideas that sound good on paper but just make things too danged complicated in practice.

Unreal Tournament 3 is a good example of all this. If you compare the folders and organization of UT99 or UT 2004 to UT3 you'll see that UT99 and UT 2004 are nice and neat whereas UT3's organization is horrible.

Agreed. With some games, their files are scattered over several different folders and locations, royal pain. Wish they would stick to a single folder wherever the user specifies during the install.

 

[shortylickens]

My installation of Guild Wars is two files. The executable, and a single, 3-GB data file.
Of course, the save games are online so thats a bit of a cheat.

I miss the DOS days when everything you needed was in a single folder. And thats all you needed.

 

[crisium]

Yeah I'm not sure why the trend in the fast few years has been to make save files in weird places outside of the main install folder.

 

[ayabe]

It has more to do with the OS's than anything. Most users on Vista/Win7/Win2008 will only have full unfettered access to these areas so the app can update/read etc as needed.

The security model is just now more complicated, the apps I work on previously utilized an INI pointer file that was located in the Windows root. But with Vista and Win7, it's painful to try to allow access to that area for non-admin users, so we had to relocate ours to the documents folder for all users.

It's for your own good! Or something

 

[tommo123]

would be nice if we could tell windows in a way so that anything that's written/read to/from a specific locale points to somewhere else instead. i'd rather move the saved games section for every game to another drive.

like an equivalent to a hosts file where you can add an url and point it to a dead IP.

 

[GaryJohnson]

I agree with the op, they should all be in My Games.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

What the hell was wrong with putting the save games in the folder the game was installed in? Now, when I run their shitty uninstallers that don't get rid of everything I have to look all over the place for what they left behind. Atleast before it was just a registry search + looking in program files.

 

[GaryJohnson]

What the hell was wrong with putting the save games in the folder the game was installed in? Now, when I run their shitty uninstallers that don't get rid of everything I have to look all over the place for what they left behind. Atleast before it was just a registry search + looking in program files.

Because program files (where games usually go) is a protected location. As it should be. You wouldn't want stuff getting modified in there without admin approval.

Since UAC, this means that every time something wants to write it needs to throw up a UAC prompt. You wouldn't want that to happen every time a game needs to save something.

 

[Dumac]

Since UAC, this means that every time something wants to write it needs to throw up a UAC prompt. You wouldn't want that to happen every time a game needs to save something.

And that is why I turned UAC off as soon as I got my computer. I don't want my OS telling me I can't do shit on my own computer.

 

[Magusigne]

And that is why I turned UAC off as soon as I got my computer. I don't want my OS telling me I can't do shit on my own computer.

Damn straight.

 

[Tremulant]

And that is why I turned UAC off as soon as I got my computer. I don't want my OS telling me I can't do shit on my own computer.

Show that computer who's boss! :awe:

I turn off UAC also. Honestly, I don't find it that useful anyways; most people I've spoken to just see it as an extra step before being able to do anything. Eventually it becomes another pop-up to click "OK" on, which defeats the purpose. /offtopic

The save game thing bugs me too; it'd be nice if you could just choose the location or if Windows forced all games to save in the My Games folder.

 

[ayabe]

I keep UAC on, I don't find it very intrusive in Win7.

Just the way it is guys, I'm sure game developers would prefer to keep everything together, it would be easier for them.

 

[Golgatha]

It would be nice if they all went into the "My Games" folder, and the saved game files were stored in a file folder named after the folder you created when you installed the game.

e.g. F: \Bioshock

Saved Game Folder would be - \...\My Games\Bioshock

Alternatively, I'd be happy with C: \Game Name\Saved Games in the folder where the main game is installed and not have the game install to the protected "Program Files" folder at all. I do a custom install to a separate drive for every game I own, so my files aren't protected in the Program Files folder anyway.

 

[GaryJohnson]

And that is why I turned UAC off as soon as I got my computer. I don't want my OS telling me I can't do shit on my own computer.

It's not about you doing shit on your computer; it's about the application you're running doing shit on your computer.

If you run with UAC off then every application running on your PC has total and uninhibited control of it. Some of those applications might contain exploits that would allow content embedded with malicious code to also have total control. UAC effectively prevents that, and with a negligible foot print.

 

[Modelworks]

Games that are part of the MS program are required to store saves in the same locations. MS doesn't license games on the pc like console so they cannot control all the software. Any developer is free to place files where ever they like.

Windows is a mixed up mess when it comes to how programs access and store information. They made some bad choices in the past, left them in too long, programmers wrote code depending on it and now those 'features' are here to stay.


As for UAC , it is flawed in many ways. No application I give permission to run or install should have the right to access any folder but its own. There is no reason a game program should have access to everything just because it has permission to install. That is where UAC fails.

UAC has many other issues that give a false sense of security to users making them think they are safe as long as they use it. It does have some benefits though so I recommend leaving it on.

My personal setting is using the program tweak UAC to set the notifcation to quiet so programs that I have given permission to run as administrator do not prompt.


I wish games followed the portable apps method. You place everything the application needs to run in the directory with the application, all the dll, registry settings, saves, etc. Then you can control what the application does or remove other applications all without effecting anything else. Worst case the application screws up its own directory but can't touch anything else.


One thing you can do with games and anything else is to run it in sandboxie to see what data it is saving and where.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

It's not about you doing shit on your computer; it's about the application you're running doing shit on your computer.

If you run with UAC off then every application running on your PC has total and uninhibited control of it. Some of those applications might contain exploits that would allow content embedded with malicious code to also have total control. UAC effectively prevents that, and with a negligible foot print.

Applications should have control of their own folders; no matter how much you want to scream what amounts to won't someone please think of the children, this is taking "security" too far.

 

[GaryJohnson]

As for UAC , it is flawed in many ways. No application I give permission to run or install should have the right to access any folder but its own. There is no reason a game program should have access to everything just because it has permission to install. That is where UAC fails.

That's not accurate. UAC doesn't even give programs access to their own folders; it tricks them into using the virtualstore.

 

[GaryJohnson]

this is taking "security" too far.

No matter how much you want to scream to the contrary, it's not.

 

[BladeVenom]

Applications should have control of their own folders; no matter how much you want to scream what amounts to won't someone please think of the children, this is taking "security" too far.

I agree with that. The program has already been granted install permission, and allowed to run. That should be enough to change it's own files.

The extra "security" hasn't slowed down malware, it's just made things more inconvenient.

 

[Modelworks]

That's not accurate. UAC doesn't even give programs access to their own folders; it tricks them into using the virtualstore.

Only if the program is not trying to circumvent UAC. If I want I can make the program do whatever I want. MS has been told about the problem but has not produced a fix.

 

[ayabe]

Bitch and moan to MS or teach your mom how to keep her PC clean, it's not the developers fault.

This is what it boils down to, just because most enthusiasts know how to protect themselves isn't applicable at all to the vast majority of computer users.

This is the model going forward, perhaps it'll get better as we go along, but we won't be returning to the 98/XP file system.

 

[CP5670]

Applications should have control of their own folders; no matter how much you want to scream what amounts to won't someone please think of the children, this is taking "security" too far.

I also preferred it back when programs just put their stuff in their own folders.

Security is not a good justification for this if it comes at the expense of usability and convenience. If you want perfect security, that can be achieved by simply turning off your computer.