Why California needs Proposition 8..........

[jonks]

Originally posted by: tealk
Agreed....I don't want my 5 year old learning that homosexuality is in any way moral.

Nice post OP.

Protect your children from teh gay. Also, don't tell them blacks and whites can intermarry or that women can get jobs.

You folks are on the losing side of history.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: tealk
Agreed....I don't want my 5 year old learning that homosexuality is in any way moral.

Nice post OP.

In fact, don't let him learn that any naturally occuring human condition, like having dark skin, is moral. Bigot.

 

[Moonbeam]

Naturally, it is in the nature of bigoted pigs not to want their children to be free of bigotry. How else do you think your mind was ruined.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: tealk
Agreed....I don't want my 5 year old learning that homosexuality is in any way moral.

Nice post OP.

The world will be a better place when your generation dies.

 

[tealk]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: tealk
Agreed....I don't want my 5 year old learning that homosexuality is in any way moral.

Nice post OP.

The world will be a better place when your generation dies.

May the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on you all.

 

[Jschmuck2]

If this is the same Jesus Christ, in your mind, that wants to take away intrinsic rights from people, I'll take my chances alone, thanks.

I'm not religious but seriously, have you even READ the Bible?

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: tealk

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: tealk
Agreed....I don't want my 5 year old learning that homosexuality is in any way moral.

Nice post OP.

The world will be a better place when your generation dies.

May the Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on you all.

You are the one who needs it. You are the one who is discriminating and bigoted towards people wrongly, instead of loving them as yourself as He instructed.

The right-wing churches, IMO, are the biggest single enemy of Christian teaching now in the world.

 

[tealk]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
If this is the same Jesus Christ, in your mind, that wants to take away intrinsic rights from people, I'll take my chances alone, thanks.

I'm not religious but seriously, have you even READ the Bible?

Have you? But as you said "I'm not religious"

 

[Jschmuck2]

You answer my question first, then we'll talk about me.

 

[zinfamous]

NO ON H8!
NO ON H8!
NO ON H8!

just voted. soooo happy to stick it to the Fundy Ignorance and Hate machine. WOOT!

 

[Jschmuck2]

I also voted no. Straight to Hell, I guess.

*sigh*

Again.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: MH2007

Originally posted by: zinfamous

Originally posted by: MH2007

Originally posted by: Ns1

So you don't think that equal treatment is a right?

/discussion

Wrong

Really, you said exactly that just above this response. here you go

Originally posted by: MH2007
In my opinion at least, equal treatment is not a right. It is an ideal.

You meant to type, "yes, that is my opinion," didn't you?
I can see how your fingers might have slipped.

You might want to clarify because I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

seriously? that confused?

You (in response to someone else): IMO, equal treatment is not a right, it is an ideal.

NS1 (regarding an earlier post): so you don't think equal treatment is a right?
You: Wrong

I guess I can see how you are so easily confused by duplicitous advertising...

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
You answer my question first, then we'll talk about me.

He read it, but read the wrong half.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I voted NO on Prop 8 this morning.

Hope it gets shot down in flames.

 

[tealk]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
You answer my question first, then we'll talk about me.

Don?t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don?t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people?none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Are there are several more. Throughout

 

[mrSHEiK124]

I staunchly believe the whole "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" shtick, and the whole "teh ghey is religiously immoral" bit. But for fuck's sake, VOTE NO. If you actually believe that God will punish teh ghey, then leave it to God. You think homosexuality is wrong, God knows you aren't gay, focus on your own shortcomings and just let teh gheys be gay. Honestly, the fundy right-wing holier than thou attitude has me disgusted, and I like to think I'm religious...

 

[Ns1]

Originally posted by: tealk

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
You answer my question first, then we'll talk about me.

Don?t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don?t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people?none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Are there are several more. Throughout

So I can be a hateful bigot and go to heaven as long as I don't " indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people" rite?

WOOOOOOOOO FREE HATE FOR EVERYBODY, WE'RE ALL GOING TO HEAVEN NOW!

I'm sure that was "His" original intent.

 

[tealk]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
I staunchly believe the whole "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" shtick, and the whole "teh ghey is religiously immoral" bit. But for fuck's sake, VOTE NO. If you actually believe that God will punish teh ghey, then leave it to God. You think homosexuality is wrong, God knows you aren't gay, focus on your own shortcomings and just let teh gheys be gay. Honestly, the fundy right-wing holier than thou attitude has me disgusted, and I like to think I'm religious...

Look back at my post..never did I say I am holier then though...I am not and never will be....you unfortunately are the ones calling names.
Thanks for swearing....really helps your "view".

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: MH2007

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: MH2007

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: MH2007

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: MH2007

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: MH2007
I am still leaning to vote No, but some people that have yet to vote on this Proposition are being lied to brazenly by the No on 8 campaign and may be influenced by those lies. People deserve to make their decision based on facts.

Good. There's hope for you. I'm straight. Nothing's going to change for me, one way or the other. Please don't vote to eliminate a right of some of my friends and business relationships.

Thanks.

As of now I remain undecided, but the more I learn about this the more I am troubled. There are people that feel that things will change for themselves and their families negatively if they do not pass Prop 8, and they have a right to be heard. Even though I disagree with their sentiment it is not right that their voice has been suppressed as it has through the lies and inappropriate actions of State officials.

So you don't think that equal treatment is a right?

I didn't want to expand this to a (potentially dragged on) discussion about rights but stick to the specific examples of what the campaigns are doing, but I'll indulge a bit.

The constituency of the state of California has the right to voice what they feel should be in the Constitution of the State of California, including a restrictive definition of marriage. Obviously, this a very old right, much older than the right to marry that gays gained when judges recently interpreted the State Constitution to grant them that right.

Is this equal treatment? To you and me this may seem obvious that it is not. But for many people marriage between a man and a woman is intrinsically different than gay marriage so they should NOT be treated equally. Obviously, equal treatment regarding gay marriage is currently an unobtainable ideal. I don't know how to portray this more obviously than to point to the most relevant example that 96% of the States in the US do not allow gay marriage.

But to answer your question succinctly, no. In my opinion at least, equal treatment is not a right. It is an ideal.

Ok, so if the US decided to discriminate against YOU in such a way, you wouldn't demand equal treatment? (actually you define it as protection in the US but the meaning is the same).

Basically you're saying that segregation can be re-instituted and it would be no probleme because that is what the law says, discrimination is up to the people of the states?

My understanding is that the Fourteenth Amendment would prevent that from happening in any way that I can readily conceive.

If I do suffer in some way in the future that I perceive to be discrimination, then my recourse would likely be to take it to the courts as the was done to obtain right for gays to marry. At that point it would likely be parties with rights that are in conflict, which is exactly what we have in Prop 8.

Like I said before, I believe that Equal Treatment is not a right, it is an ideal. We can all want it but in reality, even as the law evolved, it will likely never be achieved.

Equal protection, if you like, it's the same thing, only reason i referred to equal treatment is because it's in our constitution, it means the same thing.

So basically, you're not too keen on the constitution? Except when it suits your purposes, i suppose?

I do apologize, you even tried to clarify and I missed it.

When you said Equal Treatment I read it as the ideal of Egalitarianism ... and even missed it when you tried to correct me

Of course I think the Fourteenth Amendment should apply to gays but obviously (as a point of law) it does not right now. The fact that 96% of states do not allow gay marriage should make this plainly obvious.

Perhaps in the future it will. It may require that Prop 8 pass and then the Supreme Court get involved. I don't know when it will happen but hopefully soon. But in the meantime I do not believe that trampling on other peoples' rights is the correct way to go.

Whose rights does prop 8 passing trample on? you only deny rights by passing on it. It grants the "right" to legally discriminate against people. ....you can have the right to believe what ever you want. As idiotic as it is, the belief that gays deserve discrimination is a right. But no one has the right to legally discriminate.

Your argument would grant legal powers to a discriminatory belief. Gay marriage does not trample on the rights of heterosexuals to marry. It does not trample on school education. For those that strangely fear that their kids will be taught to marry gays, they can take them to another school. They have the right to choose their own childrens' education. They have NO right to choose how others educate their children.

They exercise their right over education by withdrawing their children to another district, not by enforcing their belief on everyone. They may argue that others are enforcing a contrary belief on the system, but again, I don't think the situation has merit, as no one is required to teach GAY MARRIAGE in school.

 

[Jschmuck2]

Oh this is going to be so delicious. This thread has no reached epic proportions.

So you're equating homosexuality with thieving, drunkenness, greed, adultery, prostitution and abuse (though, not as much mental abuse as reading your posts)?

Fantastic.

What, pray tell, would you (or Jesus, if you can differentiate) have us do with these "social degenerates"?

 

[tealk]

Lord Jesus...forgive them for they know not what they say. Bring everlasting life of your breath to their lives. Amen!

 

[Jschmuck2]

Further more, you really think Jesus would want your dumbass discriminating against different groups of people?

 

[tealk]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2
Oh this is going to be so delicious. This thread has no reached epic proportions.

So you're equating homosexuality with thieving, drunkenness, greed, adultery, prostitution and abuse (though, not as much mental abuse as reading your posts)?

Fantastic.

What, pray tell, would you (or Jesus, if you can differentiate) have us do with these "social degenerates"?

Pray for them

 

[Jschmuck2]

Originally posted by: tealk
Lord Jesus...forgive them for they know not what they say. Bring everlasting life of your breath to their lives. Amen!

No, I know exactly what I'm saying and I'm saying that you've missed the entire point of your religion.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: tealk

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
I staunchly believe the whole "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" shtick, and the whole "teh ghey is religiously immoral" bit. But for fuck's sake, VOTE NO. If you actually believe that God will punish teh ghey, then leave it to God. You think homosexuality is wrong, God knows you aren't gay, focus on your own shortcomings and just let teh gheys be gay. Honestly, the fundy right-wing holier than thou attitude has me disgusted, and I like to think I'm religious...

Look back at my post..never did I say I am holier then though...I am not and never will be....you unfortunately are the ones calling names.
Thanks for swearing....really helps your "view".

Your post was made as I was writing mine, but I've just now read it, and I'm not indulging in any of those sins that would keep me out of the Kingdom of God. And I'm not Christian, I'm Muslim, I don't believe someone had to die for my sins, I am accountable for what I do in front of God and that's what matters. I'm not a homophobe, and I'm not gay (come on, boobs > *, everyone knows that); and I'm open minded enough to not give a shit about gays getting married because again, if you actually believe what you preach, then they will not enter the Kingdom of God and it's no sweat off your back.

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: tealk
Lord Jesus...forgive them for they know not what they say. Bring everlasting life of your breath to their lives. Amen!

No, I know exactly what I'm saying and I'm saying that you've missed the entire point of your religion.

This. Jesus didn't want you walking around thinking you're better than anyone else, you use his teachings to to make the world a better place, not spread hate; whatever happened to humility?