Why buy coverage?

[cubeless]

I don't know if this is addressed in the bill, but wouldn't this problem be fixed by requiring say a wait time, e.g, the plan doesn't kick in until the next first of the month?

that would be pretty unfair...

 

[Sclamoz]

* If you have a catastrophe of any form, buy the insurance at that point in time. You cannot be turned down or charged more.

As far as I know this is wrong. The insurance companies just pay a fine if they turn people down. So if your medical needs > cost of fines you might be SOL.

 

[cubeless]

i guess we'll just have to wait to see if 'was in car crash yesterday' is s pre-existing condition or not...

 

[Jhhnn]

Where did he come up with those numbers?

He pulled them out of his ass, where else?

Standard fearmongering...

 

[Zebo]

Scaming the system by waiting until catastrophe strikes to buy insurance
makes for a good rightwing talking point, but something tells me that in practice it may not work out so well for ya 🙄

What's funny is you think Denninger is RW. Read some of his columns. Considering unpleasant consequences should have been done from the start with this crap bill to get a good bill.

 

[cubeless]

As far as I know this is wrong. The insurance companies just pay a fine if they turn people down. So if your medical needs > cost of fines you might be SOL.

where does it say this? if this is true then the whole thing is moot... i don't believe that this is the case... they're going to make someone take you, and at some maximum of rate...

what i recall reading is that it's like the old assigned risk car insurance pool in ca... all insurers had to take some percentage of bad drivers based on their insured pool size... in this case the ins co's have to take everybody, but if they have to pay out too much vs. premiums they can beg the sate for assistance...

 

[her209]

that would be pretty unfair...

Why? This is standard practice for new hires who pay into their employer's health insurance plan.

 

[cubeless]

Why? This is standard practice for new hires who pay into their employer's health insurance plan.

because of the publicity when hector poorguy starts paying for insurance, his kid gets his head cracked, and he goes bankrupt because the policy hadn't kicked in yet... the publicity will be too good when the repubs parade hector like the dems did the toothless lady...

 

[Zebo]

Denninger's argument is very good IF it's possible to get insurance IMMEDIATELY. Like on the way to the hospital (pre-existing being that you're bleeding out, but they have to take you anyway). If there is a delay of some days or a week or two then it's not meaningful.

I think it's quite clear that with the government now mandating coverage most of us will see rate increases. It's actually inevitable.

Oh really? Say one needs a bypass or has cancer or any number of chronic expensive ailments which could be remedied by simply buying insurance. In the meantime pay cash for office visits to find out above and pocket 20K a year - fine - cash checkups. Emergency medicine cost is all you're risking I believe many will take that risk considering premium price.

PS Auto insurance also mitigates the emergency medical fear.

Course we are talking hypothetical since no waiting period exists.

 

[her209]

because of the publicity when hector poorguy starts paying for insurance, his kid gets his head cracked, and he goes bankrupt because the policy hadn't kicked in yet... the publicity will be too good when the repubs parade hector like the dems did the toothless lady...

Excuse me, but wouldn't Hector Poorguy's kid be covered under Medicaid?

 

[Fern]

i guess we'll just have to wait to see if 'was in car crash yesterday' is s pre-existing condition or not...

Do you people not have cars or auto insurance?

As has been noted, medical expenses from car wrecks are largely a matter for your auto insurance.

Mine insures drivers and passengers, whether in my car or the other one.

Fern

 

[ebaycj]

Zebo - could you turn on your PM's and/or PM me?

 

[ebaycj]

Medicare for all and lose all our jobs and doctors to India and China.

I thought our doctors are entitled to 300k+ per year because of their sheer awesomeness. They'd be lucky to make $100k in either India or China, and would have significantly degraded work conditions. Not to mention not speaking the language.

They're not going anywhere, and we both know it. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[Zebo]

Zebo - could you turn on your PM's and/or PM me?

How you do that? nm I found it. Man I'm still getting used to these new forums....

 

[ebaycj]

1) The government can build the fine into the tax tables. Then when you provide prrof of coverage when you file, you get the "refund of the fine"

2) What is to stop people from getting coverage after XMAss and then dropping it in January. How long must one maintain coverage to avoid the fine. (How to prove it?)

I would imagine insurance companies will have to send a form to the IRS, as well as to you stating that you did indeed have coverage from point a to point b.

 

[Fern]

I think it's funny that some here poo poo the idea that people will forgo insurance coverage to save money etc, when the whole g@d d@mn HC thingy is because people ALREADY do that to the tune of about 30 million, some of whom can easily afford HI.

JFC, I think the world is getting dumber by the minute. Not long ago I saw a thread where it seems people can't believe HI costs are going to rise. A major freakin point of this HC reform is to get coverage for people with expensive pre-existing conditions by the REST OF US SUBSIDIZING them through our own policies. How the h3ll can our policies NOT go up?

Fern

 

[GuitarDaddy]

What's funny is you think Denninger is RW. Read some of his columns. Considering unpleasant consequences should have been done from the start with this crap bill to get a good bill.

Your right I shouldn't have categorized the line of reasoning as RW. It's a typical strawman type reasoning that can be applied to any political bent. I've just come to equate the strawman logic to the rightwing 😳 They have become quite adept at creating a theoretical problem and give it life🙂


It's pretty easy to predict pleasant or unpleasant consequences when you make up the rules and variables as you go. As much as I appreciate your exploring potential theoretical pitfalls, they are just that! theoretical, based on your own assumptions.

I'll wait till they become actual proven problems before calling it flawed, and have at least a small level of faith that glaring loopholes the size of a dump truck might be addressed before the theory is put into practice.

 

[Zebo]

I think it's funny that some here poo poo the idea that people will forgo insurance coverage to save money etc, when the whole g@d d@mn HC thingy is because people ALREADY do that to the tune of about 30 million, some of whom can easily afford HI.

JFC, I think the world is getting dumber by the minute. Not long ago I saw a thread where it seems people can't believe HI costs are going to rise. A major freakin point of this HC reform is to get coverage for people with expensive pre-existing conditions by the REST OF US SUBSIDIZING them through our own policies. How the h3ll can our policies NOT go up?

Fern

It's got to be partisanship. My team can do no wrong type of stuff.

Here's the deal. The only way to cover everyone under these terms is strip large profits out of HC on every level , increase costs, or reduce services. Or some combo of three. Many don't want to deal with that and want cake and eat it too. Not happening.

 

[cubeless]

Excuse me, but wouldn't Hector Poorguy's kid be covered under Medicaid?

would he be? if hector was self employed and making enough to not qualify, but not enough to choose to afford coverage from the current system? and schip, etc... don't cover everyone...

all of these are, of course, hypotheticals, but you don't know the rest of the story on the toothless lady, either...

i'm just very curious about the details...

 

[EagleKeeper]

I won't be earning a great deal after I retire. I simply won't need to. The good thing about this bill is that I'll be sure to see that those who loved this will pay through the nose. 😛

Take care of me!

You have spent 20+ years taking care of them - should not they recipricate by suffering for 20 years for you:hmm:

Making the leap of faith that neither they nor you are angels()🙂

 

[her209]

would he be? if hector was self employed and making enough to not qualify, but not enough to choose to afford coverage from the current system? and schip, etc... don't cover everyone...

all of these are, of course, hypotheticals, but you don't know the rest of the story on the toothless lady, either...

i'm just very curious about the details...

Ah, I see you're back to your fishing expedition.

 

[Zebo]

Your right I shouldn't have categorized the line of reasoning as RW. It's a typical strawman type reasoning that can be applied to any political bent. I've just come to equate the strawman logic to the rightwing 😳 They have become quite adept at creating a theoretical problem and give it life🙂


It's pretty easy to predict pleasant or unpleasant consequences when you make up the rules and variables as you go. As much as I appreciate your exploring potential theoretical pitfalls, they are just that! theoretical, based on your own assumptions.

I'll wait till they become actual proven problems before calling it flawed, and have at least a small level of faith that glaring loopholes the size of a dump truck might be addressed before the theory is put into practice.

That's cool too. Many bridges are better crossed when crossing them. But don't say you weren't warned like medicaid being off by an order of magnitude (base 10) this will be too.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I thought our doctors are entitled to 300k+ per year because of their sheer awesomeness. They'd be lucky to make $100k in either India or China, and would have significantly degraded work conditions. Not to mention not speaking the language.

They're not going anywhere, and we both know it. You just refuse to acknowledge it.

100k in India is a lot more than it is here. Nevertheless I agree that providers won't move. They will retire and leave a shortage because it's not worth being shit on for what they could earn in other fields.

 

[Zebo]

Anyone with a mind today interested in getting paid would do accounting > MBA > Wall Street .... Math, science and medicine are not going to be profitable.

 

[cubeless]

Ah, I see you're back to your fishing expedition.

i'm always fishing!!! i want to try to be just a half a cast in front of the masses... in my real life my job is to be just that far in front of a (metaphorical) train wreck... you can't always stop the wreck, but you can be sure to have your puts in on the railroad stock...