Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan

[emperus]

I already admitted I'm happy to miss a few trees rather than confusing a forest for the landscape on Mars as you continue to do. But believe whatever you want to, I don't really care why you felt it necessary to dredge up a quiet thread on AF to discuss Ukraine. We have a pretty vibrant thread on Ukraine.

At any rate, you fundamentally misunderstand what happened with the embassies. We didn't close the embassy; we temporarily moved it from Kyiv to Lviv. Some pundits have indeed disagreed with this decision, but it's clear what the political play was. The administration felt snake bit over last summer's AF end game, and recalling the GOP nonsense over Benghazi, decided to preemptively protect American diplomatic workers. Again, you're trying to draw an equivalence between moving what, a few hundred Americans to Lyiv vs. not planning to get 200k Afghans out of their country entirely?

In AF, the Marines defending the U.S. embassy told the State dept. they could no longer guarantee their safety. Tony Blinken was forced to close up shop permanently, destroying sensitive paperwork before we left the building. We had egg on our faces because just a couple weeks earlier, we were projecting an air of stability that didn't truly exist. Personally I'm still rather offended that at this point, NSA Jake Sullivan went on TV to emphatically state that the rapid unraveling of AF leading into August was actually all of the plan.

But I'll admit at least you've apparently changed your verbiage from Ukraine is exactly the same as AF. Now it's that the "two were similar situations." Again, whatever you want to believe is fine by me. We're actually both on Team Biden LOL.

I think the facts disagree with you. As I said you're circling the issue and playing semantics to not be wrong.
U.S. Is Closing Kyiv Embassy, Relocating Diplomatic Operations to Western Ukraine

U.S. Is Closing Kyiv Embassy, Relocating Diplomatic Operations to Western Ukraine

The U.S. is relocating diplomatic operations 340 miles west to Lviv in Western Ukraine, as allies warn that an attack by Russian forces on Ukraine may be imminent.

www.wsj.com

And some more quotes for ya:
-Zelensky of the Embassy closing
When it came to the evacuation of some staff by some embassies, Ukraine's leader was openly peeved: "Diplomats are like captains," Mr Zelensky said. "They should be the last to leave a sinking ship. And Ukraine is not the Titanic."

-Zelensky on talk about the war
"There are signals even from respected leaders of states, they just say that tomorrow there will be war. This is panic - how much does it cost for our state?" he told the press conference in Kyiv.
The "destabilisation of the situation inside the country" was the biggest threat to Ukraine, he said.


Ukraine crisis: Don't create panic, Zelensky tells West

Ukraine crisis: Don't create panic, Zelensky tells West

President Volodymyr Zelensky says warnings of a Russian invasion are putting the economy at risk.

www.bbc.com

Don't have patience to go into the rest of the stuff you said. There's been plenty written on it. Read it. But as I said the rational for not closing the embassy and pulling people out were similar in both situations. They didn't want to telegraph either as being the Titanic (as heard from Zelensky's own mouth), but made a different choice for Ukraine.

 

[manly]

In other words, you don't understand what relocation means. The U.S. Embassy consists of our State Dept. workers and the diplomatic services they provide. As an issue of safety, we've moved all our personnel to Lviv. Did we destroy our work in progress before closing the building? Did Tony Blinken recall our embassy workers back to D.C.? Does the State Dept. intend to return to Kyiv if Russia pulls back its forces? You make it seem like the embassy building itself is the most important part of the equation. The building was closed, not the diplomatic operations.

So no, "closing the Kyiv Embassy" is not the same as permanently leaving the embassy in Kabul. As I said, some pundits disagree on the immediate necessity of moving to Lviv. But it's plainly obvious what the domestic political considerations are for the Biden administration. If the crisis is resolved, we can and will move back to Kyiv.

Accuse me of playing semantics, but you ignore the entire preponderance of facts by fixating on an "image" issue. Again, it's ludicrous to compare moving our embassy to Lviv vs. deciding if, when and how to evacuate 200k Afghan nationals to multiple allied countries. Not American citizens, but Afghans who worked for our coalition. I've explained numerous ways in which UA is unlike AF, but you insist that the image issue proves your thesis. Whatever man, go ahead and have the last word.

 

[IronWing]

Hmm, it's been a year with no American troops killed in Afghanistan. It seems that this Biden fella was on to something.

 

[fskimospy]

Hmm, it's been a year with no American troops killed in Afghanistan. It seems that this Biden fella was on to something.

An interesting thought experiment would be if anyone can articulate how the US would be better off if we were still there.

 

[skyking]

or the people there, for that matter.

 

[IronWing]

My fair state is getting 1600 Afghan refugees in this wave. I hope at least one of them opens a restaurant because the Afghan restaurants I've been to in other states have been most excellent.

Score! Afghan restaurant opened last month and it is excellent!

 

[evident]

still the right choice as far as im concerned.

 

[Lanyap]

Score! Afghan restaurant opened last month and it is excellent!

OMG, you survived all those Afghan refugees coming into your state.
/s

What do you normally order from their menu?

 

[IronWing]

OMG, you survived all those Afghan refugees coming into your state.
/s

What do you normally order from their menu?

We tried it for the first time yesterday. We had:

Qabuli Palaw - lamb shank with basmati rice, sauteed carrots, almonds, and raisins​

Teka Kabob - marinated lamb kabob with basmati rice, chutney, naan, fresh yogurt​

Doogh - Yogurt drink with fresh cucumber and mint​

Hot green tea​

Everything was very good. The yogurt is made daily on premises. The lamb is very similar to what we've had in Persian restaurants though the kabob was more heavily seasoned. The naan is somewhere between Indian naan and a baguette, sort of a flat baguette.

Next trip we'll try:

Banjan Burani - eggplant and tomato dish​

Do Piaza - lamb curry with onions​

Bolani Gandana - leek and herb turnovers​

 

[Muse]

We tried it for the first time yesterday. We had:

Qabuli Palaw - lamb shank with basmati rice, sauteed carrots, almonds, and raisins​

Teka Kabob - marinated lamb kabob with basmati rice, chutney, naan, fresh yogurt​

Doogh - Yogurt drink with fresh cucumber and mint​

Hot green tea​

Everything was very good. The yogurt is made daily on premises. The lamb is very similar to what we've had in Persian restaurants though the kabob was more heavily seasoned. The naan is somewhere between Indian naan and a baguette, sort of a flat baguette.

Next trip we'll try:

Banjan Burani - eggplant and tomato dish​

Do Piaza - lamb curry with onions​

Bolani Gandana - leek and herb turnovers​

I'll have to look for Afghani restaurants around here, there's gotta be. We are diversity central in the Bay Area. Fact: It's been years since I ate a hamburger!

Edit: An online search turns up double digits hits and they're getting very positive reviews.

 

[cytg111]

We tried it for the first time yesterday. We had:

Qabuli Palaw - lamb shank with basmati rice, sauteed carrots, almonds, and raisins​

Teka Kabob - marinated lamb kabob with basmati rice, chutney, naan, fresh yogurt​

Doogh - Yogurt drink with fresh cucumber and mint​

Hot green tea​

Everything was very good. The yogurt is made daily on premises. The lamb is very similar to what we've had in Persian restaurants though the kabob was more heavily seasoned. The naan is somewhere between Indian naan and a baguette, sort of a flat baguette.

Next trip we'll try:

Banjan Burani - eggplant and tomato dish​

Do Piaza - lamb curry with onions​

Bolani Gandana - leek and herb turnovers​

Omg the food. SO good. I dont know why middle eastern cooking is so good but *god damn* that shit goes straight to my heart. Go to Turkey and get an iskender kebab off the street. Heaven.

 

[uallas5]

We tried it for the first time yesterday. We had:

Qabuli Palaw - lamb shank with basmati rice, sauteed carrots, almonds, and raisins​

Teka Kabob - marinated lamb kabob with basmati rice, chutney, naan, fresh yogurt​

Doogh - Yogurt drink with fresh cucumber and mint​

Hot green tea​

Everything was very good. The yogurt is made daily on premises. The lamb is very similar to what we've had in Persian restaurants though the kabob was more heavily seasoned. The naan is somewhere between Indian naan and a baguette, sort of a flat baguette.

Next trip we'll try:

Banjan Burani - eggplant and tomato dish​

Do Piaza - lamb curry with onions​

Bolani Gandana - leek and herb turnovers​

omfg, came into this thread after reading the Boebert one and, of course, I read the first dish as being lamb skank!!
food sounds delicious btw!

 

[K1052]

Score! Afghan restaurant opened last month and it is excellent!

Hm this place looks good and is very convenient to my dad's place. Have to make a note of this one.

 

[HomerJS]

An interesting thought experiment would be if anyone can articulate how the US would be better off if we were still there.

Since 2017 100 US soldiers were killed. From then until the withdrawal is about 50 months. 2/month

We withdrew Aug 2021 so if we were still there an additional 72 soldiers would have been killed. While losing 11 during the withdrawal is tragic keeping them there would have been far worse.

 

[ivwshane]

Since 2017 100 US soldiers were killed. From then until the withdrawal is about 50 months. 2/month

We withdrew Aug 2021 so if we were still there an additional 72 soldiers would have been killed. While losing 11 during the withdrawal is tragic keeping them there would have been far worse.

Yeah but you aren’t using 9/11 math! You have to keep in mind, 2996 9/11 deaths is equal to 7000 soldier deaths. So 72 is really only 35 and since 11 is from a withdrawal and not an unjustified war, 11 is actually more like 1000 deaths.

It’s simple logic.