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Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan
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IronWing
No Lifer
Well, Biden did it.
Muse
Lifer
Doesn't surprise me at all. Since they thought that more terrorist attacks were likely before the deadline the smartest thing to do was BEAT IT!
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pauldun170
Diamond Member
Years of cowards scared of the political aftermath of withdrawal. All the major players from the last 20 years would have pussied out and stuck to status quo once the optics looked bad.
Credit to Biden for having the balls to stick with the decision.
brandonbull
Diamond Member
Trump is a lot of things but being President the last 7 months isn't one of them. Biden is the guy with the title of President and it was his admin that managed the withdrawal from Afghanistan. Time and time again Biden and other senior leadership showed lack of candor and or competency when assessing the Tallyban.
Fanatical Meat
Lifer
For once I feel this is fair commentary from you & I agree it was Biden’s dance we likely won’t know the terms of the withdrawal deal with the taliban for a while. I suspect the former President put little though & effort into the deal. Gonna guess it was structured as we won't shoot or fire at this and that location but the deal is only valid until 9/1/2021 and you won’t shoot hellfire drone strikes at this guy and that guy.
Again a total guess on my part and on the surface that isn’t a horrible deal just comes with what we saw with places being overrun.
[DHT]Osiris
Lifer
Not a fan of this line of reasoning, given that every other intelligence agency on the planet had a similar timeline on the Taliban takeover. Everyone knew it was inevitable, nobody thought it would happen within a week.
K1052
Elite Member
You should probably extend that to every administration over the past 20 years.
Afghanistan is as bipartisan as it gets.
IronWing
No Lifer
Indeed, Biden withdrew the troops from Afghanistan after Bush lied, Obama lied, and Trump lied about their intent to do so. This one is all on Biden. It's a better day for America.
Fanatical Meat
Lifer
I want to add Congress shirking its war power responsibly even when requested by the President, the Military giving far too optimistic outlooks and either provided completely inadequate training or misreported how it was going
But who knows Taliban has a big role to fill we gave Afghanistan 20 of its best years ever regarding safety and income and food availability. Plus we increased the average lifespan there dramatically (forgot how much).
Gonna be tough to run it like pre 9/11 medieval society.
Personally I feel there is a great chance Afghanistan will ultimately be like Vietnam.
sportage
Lifer
And THAT is exactly why the right-wingers are sooooo upset.
They sit there in their little offices at Fox and pretend they would have a clue of what to do had they been in Joe Biden's shoes. And you can see this in Donald Trump as well, obviously very pissed off because Biden did something that Trump failed to do. Sure.... leaving Afshitastan was never going to be pretty but it simply had to be done. The loss of American life was indeed tragic, however.... that is what happens when America plays god to these third world shit-holes. You wouldn't want to live there.... THEY don't want to live there... No one wants to live there....
I predict that after the dust settles, Joe Biden and his determination to leave will be praised, and the messiness of it forgotten. History will remember this as a Biden achievement, not so much as a victory but certainly as an achievement. And thru all of this Joe Biden was right.... The buck does stop at his desk and presidents must make extremely difficult decisions every day.
And you know what's funny.... I just DARE any future president to even consider returning troops into the region. No future president would have the ignorance except maybe another Bush kid like old Jeb. A president Jeb Bush is dumb enough to try it.
pauldun170
Diamond Member
Check ebay for helicopters.
The Afghans couldn't keep them flying without US contractors and complex aircraft require an ecosystem of parts and materials.
Without parts, and maintenance they will be lucky to get a few flights out of them (assuming they can find pilots) for photo ops until things start require servicing and parts.
The Russian aircraft are more valuable at this point since they are old, familiar and common to the region.
chowderhead
Platinum Member
you mean like when Trump abandoned the Kurds after withdrawing from
Syria? https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ly-for-trump-s-reckless-withdrawal-from-syria
Yeah, I'm sure that's the case. I note the papers today all carry footage of "the Taliban airforce" flying a Blackhawk, but presumably they won't get many flights out of it before something malfunctions that they can't fix - actually a little surprised they have the expertise to pilot it at all.
e.g.
Taliban appear to fly US Black Hawk helicopters over Kandahar
The Afghan Air Force reportedly had 167 operational aircraft, including 33 Black Hawk attack helicopters, before the Taliban took over
www.independent.co.uk
I wonder more about the personal-equipment those guys are wearing. At first glance I'd have assumed they were US soldiers. Are those M4 carbines for example?
From what I read India seems particularly nervous about the Talibannies getting this stuff...though surely Pakistan already has plenty of it, and I'd presume some of that makes its way to cause trouble for India?
Fanatical Meat
Lifer
People were trying to hold on to a jet to fly away, there is no chance they will be able to maintain an aircraft.
Indus
Lifer
Yeah, I'm sure that's the case. I note the papers today all carry footage of "the Taliban airforce" flying a Blackhawk, but presumably they won't get many flights out of it before something malfunctions that they can't fix - actually a little surprised they have the expertise to pilot it at all.
e.g.
Taliban appear to fly US Black Hawk helicopters over Kandahar
The Afghan Air Force reportedly had 167 operational aircraft, including 33 Black Hawk attack helicopters, before the Taliban took over
I wonder more about the personal-equipment those guys are wearing. At first glance I'd have assumed they were US soldiers. Are those M4 carbines for example?
From what I read India seems particularly nervous about the Talibannies getting this stuff...though surely Pakistan already has plenty of it, and I'd presume some of that makes its way to cause trouble for India?
Black hawk down.. sometime in the next decade due to lack of maintenance without any Americans on board.
brandonbull
Diamond Member
Joe Biden's disaster is not going to be praised except by the Tallyban, Russia, and China. Not long ago Biden proclaimed that under no circumstances would there be a hasty exit and no embassy rooftop evacuations. Biden was determined to leave so he chose the "hold my beer" option. Now that Afghanistan is over, Biden can get back to making racist remarks and insults.
Biden’s full flop on messages about Afghanistan withdrawal
President Joe Biden told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that it wouldn’t have been possible to get out of Afghanistan witho
www.politifact.com
A month after Biden said there was no chance 'you see people being lifted off the roof' of a US embassy in Afghanistan, helicopters rushed to evacuate diplomats
The US scrambled to evacuate diplomats from the helicopter landing pad next to the embassy despite Biden and his aides trying to avoid exactly that.
www.businessinsider.com
IronWing
No Lifer
If you see a disaster, there's still no reason you can't pack your jammies for Afghanistan and do what you think is in America's interest over there, big boy.
Oh, and fuck off, traitor.
MrSquished
Lifer
brandonbull is the kind of guy that might get the balls if there is a right wing fascist insurrection again in 2024-2025, he might shoot some peaceful protestors off in the distance with his gun while getting all excited about his chance to protect democracy, or, aka, the entire world of lies and delusion he lives in. He'll be dressed up like GI Joe when he does it too.
dank69
Lifer
Cry moarJoe Biden's disaster is not going to be praised except by the Tallyban, Russia, and China. Not long ago Biden proclaimed that under no circumstances would there be a hasty exit and no embassy rooftop evacuations. Biden was determined to leave so he chose the "hold my beer" option. Now that Afghanistan is over, Biden can get back to making racist remarks and insults.
Biden’s full flop on messages about Afghanistan withdrawal
President Joe Biden told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that it wouldn’t have been possible to get out of Afghanistan witho
A month after Biden said there was no chance 'you see people being lifted off the roof' of a US embassy in Afghanistan, helicopters rushed to evacuate diplomats
The US scrambled to evacuate diplomats from the helicopter landing pad next to the embassy despite Biden and his aides trying to avoid exactly that.
It really shows you how biased towards endless war so much of the US foreign policy establishment is where the deaths of 13 servicemembers are treated as so much more important than the ~2,500 deaths that preceded them. And what did all those deaths and $2 trillion buy us? A government that collapsed in a week.
Biden did the right thing and took on the military/foreign policy/industrial complex. He finally did what the previous three presidents failed to do and history will look on him kindly for it.
Biden did the right thing and took on the military/foreign policy/industrial complex. He finally did what the previous three presidents failed to do and history will look on him kindly for it.
K1052
Elite Member
The press is mostly avoiding the bigger scarier questions about how the US spent over 2T and 20 years in Afghanistan for this outcome.
Oh the withdrawal was a "fiasco" eh? Well maybe ask the neocons that are all over your shows tut tutting about this what their ownership is of the situation.
This is also my judgment. The hit to US pride over the defeat will fade quickly, relief that it is over more likely to endure. Republicans seem to want to go all in on impeaching him for something that is likely to be durably quite favorable (not to mention entirely within his powers).
Dulanic
Diamond Member
Joe Biden's disaster is not going to be praised except by the Tallyban, Russia, and China. Not long ago Biden proclaimed that under no circumstances would there be a hasty exit and no embassy rooftop evacuations. Biden was determined to leave so he chose the "hold my beer" option. Now that Afghanistan is over, Biden can get back to making racist remarks and insults.
Biden’s full flop on messages about Afghanistan withdrawal
President Joe Biden told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos that it wouldn’t have been possible to get out of Afghanistan witho
A month after Biden said there was no chance 'you see people being lifted off the roof' of a US embassy in Afghanistan, helicopters rushed to evacuate diplomats
The US scrambled to evacuate diplomats from the helicopter landing pad next to the embassy despite Biden and his aides trying to avoid exactly that.
Because trimp would had done... the same thing but left the afghans most likely?
John Bolton said Trump 'fully supported' withdrawing from Afghanistan and would have done so if reelected, despite criticizing Biden for the decision
Trump criticized Biden for pulling US troops from Afghanistan. Trump's former national security advisor said Trump and Biden agreed on the decision.
www.businessinsider.com
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