Why Biden is pulling the US -- and NATO -- out of Afghanistan

[VRAMdemon]

The United States body politic spent the lion’s share of the last 20 years not giving a shit at all about Afghanistan, I am pretty certain that whatever the bullshit Republican rhetoric, no one is choosing which candidate to vote for in 2024 based on a country most Americans simply don’t care about.

The Washington Post has a pretty good series up right now on it, called the “Afghanistan Papers” (a reference to the Pentagon Papers leak back in the Vietnam War that revealed our government had known for years Vietnam was an unwinnable mess, and that they had no idea what they were doing). It highlights how after an initial 5 year period of bumbling ignorance, we actually did deep research and study and found out just how bad the situation in Afghanistan really was. The government’s response was to hide this information and just keep doing what the top brass wanted, which always boils down to more, troops, more money for training the Afghan allies. None of the underlying issues were ever meaningfully addressed. The fact that the Taliban was able to buy a country for likely pennies compared to the vast treasure we sunk into it, should be a major lesson for America going forward.

 

[fskimospy]

Exactly. His supporters hear his words but some reason still disbelieve him. The Trump administration boxed Biden in. Honestly, presidencies should end immediately when the election is over.

Yes, I strongly agree. We should have a turnover period of like 1-2 weeks.

 

[K1052]

Yes, I strongly agree. We should have a turnover period of like 1-2 weeks.

7 days tops. If the incoming admin f's up the transition then that's on them.

 

[NWRMidnight]

7 days tops. If the incoming admin f's up the transition then that's on them.

How about we put the blame where it really belongs: On the afghan government and their soldiers who just abandoned their posts and just let them walk in. By blaming Biden, you are saying that the US would never have been able to leave Afghanistan, as the result would have been the same no matter what, or who was President.

 

[K1052]

Whole lotta tankers in the air. AC-130Js. Various A400Ms, C-17s, etc other military cargo aircraft coming and going.

 

[K1052]

How about we put the blame where it really belongs: On the afghan government and their soldiers who just abandoned their posts and just let them walk in. By blaming Biden, you are saying that the US would never have been able to leave Afghanistan, as the result would have been the same no matter what, or who was President.

My reasons for a nearly non-existent transition period are myriad and extend well beyond foreign policy. The election's looser fomenting a violent insurrection while perched on top of the government is certainly near the top of that list, well above this.

I think Biden's worst offense here is a genuine belief or perhaps hope that the country would not fall to pieces so quickly. An assessment that the nation's intelligence services and military had fed him and us all along, despite the numerous warning signs that this wasn't going to be the case. If he knew two months ago it would all go to shit so rapidly different choices likely would have been made in how the US finalized its pull out but we still would have pulled out. Though I'm ultimately unsure how you avoid all the chaos of a country falling because it's usually this bad or much much worse.

 

[brycejones]

Apparently our resident military genius wanted the US to disarm the afghan military on our way out of the country as part of our withdrawal plan. Lol.

2) Begin mass evacuations much earlier? This would have signaled to Afghanistan and the world to surrender immediately. You can argue this happened anyway but I also guarantee you the exact same people would have shit on that decision too.

So…what?

At least one of these assholes here immediately deflected from it being Trump's agreement to "Don't point fingers" but Biden needs to be do SOMETHING.

Fuck the dishonest shits. Looking at you ultimateboob.

 

[Indus]

The United States body politic spent the lion’s share of the last 20 years not giving a shit at all about Afghanistan, I am pretty certain that whatever the bullshit Republican rhetoric, no one is choosing which candidate to vote for in 2024 based on a country most Americans simply don’t care about.

The Washington Post has a pretty good series up right now on it, called the “Afghanistan Papers” (a reference to the Pentagon Papers leak back in the Vietnam War that revealed our government had known for years Vietnam was an unwinnable mess, and that they had no idea what they were doing). It highlights how after an initial 5 year period of bumbling ignorance, we actually did deep research and study and found out just how bad the situation in Afghanistan really was. The government’s response was to hide this information and just keep doing what the top brass wanted, which always boils down to more, troops, more money for training the Afghan allies. None of the underlying issues were ever meaningfully addressed. The fact that the Taliban was able to buy a country for likely pennies compared to the vast treasure we sunk into it, should be a major lesson for America going forward.

This.

If only could open Trumpanzee's eyes but they belong in a fucking zoo.

The major point I take from this is.. this is what Jan 6th could have been but we fought back. If we don't fight back.. its easy as hell for the taking.

 

[ultimatebob]

At least one of these assholes here immediately deflected from it being Trump's agreement to "Don't point fingers" but Biden needs to be do SOMETHING.

Fuck the dishonest shits. Looking at you ultimateboob.

Hey... you can hate on Trump all you want, but Afghanistan fell on Biden's watch. Blaming him for what happened over the past two weeks when he hasn't been in office for over six months now just makes you look foolish.

 

[fskimospy]

Hey... you can hate on Trump all you want, but Afghanistan fell on Biden's watch. Blaming him for what happened over the past two weeks when he hasn't been in office for over six months now just makes you look foolish.

So should he have torn up the agreement Trump made?

 

[brycejones]

Hey... you can hate on Trump all you want, but Afghanistan fell on Biden's watch. Blaming him for what happened over the past two weeks when he hasn't been in office for over six months now just makes you look foolish.

How many American lives are you willing to spend?

 

[ultimatebob]

So should he have torn up the agreement Trump made?

The Taliban didn't exactly hold up their end of the deal, did they?

 

[MrSquished]

It is kind of funny how Republicans are attempting to pretend that

1) Trump didn't strike the deal that's now being enforced and
2) Afghan government/security forces didn't notice they weren't even consulted in it.

As soon as the US signed a separate peace with the Taliban that didn't include the current Afghan government we were implicitly acknowledging the Taliban would win, it was only a question of when.

The Republicans are already trying to erase history Open SmartNews and read "RNC busted for deleting campaign page touting Trump’s ‘historic peace agreement’ after Afghanistan implodes" here: https://share.smartnews.com/osMpY
To read it on the web, tap here: https://share.smartnews.com/ARrDa

Do you expect piece of shit human beings that are the conservatives these days like nobodysmind to be honest about any of this?

Not like they give a single fuck about the lives of brown Muslims overseas anyways.
Such disgusting people.

 

[MrSquished]

You probably cheered for the Muslim ban, and now all of a sudden you're worried about Afghan civilians?

"C'mon man."

You are talking to a literal piece of human filth, hypocritical and a liar about almost everything he posts. It's a skill of the GQP to be as horrific as they are, it's their superpower.

 

[ultimatebob]

How many American lives are you willing to spend?

I think that this is a rhetorical question, but the damage is done at this point. We just need to get out allies out of there as quickly as safely as possible.

Don't be surprised if we need to go back to defeat "Al Qaeda 2.0" in the future, though.

 

[NWRMidnight]

My reasons for a nearly non-existent transition period are myriad and extend well beyond foreign policy. The election's looser fomenting a violent insurrection while perched on top of the government is certainly near the top of that list, well above this.

I think Biden's worst offense here is a genuine belief or perhaps hope that the country would not fall to pieces so quickly. An assessment that the nation's intelligence services and military had fed him and us all along, despite the numerous warning signs that this wasn't going to be the case. If he knew two months ago it would all go to shit so rapidly different choices likely would have been made in how the US finalized its pull out but we still would have pulled out. Though I'm ultimately unsure how you avoid all the chaos of a country falling because it's usually this bad or much much worse.

NON existent transition period? How so? This has been in the works for months.. how much time do you think the afghan government needed to prepare after 20 years of help, training, and knowing for months that we would be leaving?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

How about we put the blame where it really belongs: On the afghan government and their soldiers who just abandoned their posts and just let them walk in. By blaming Biden, you are saying that the US would never have been able to leave Afghanistan, as the result would have been the same no matter what, or who was President.

Afghanistan doesn't have a real government, not in the way we would describe one. It's a pile of tribes loosely identified by other governing bodies' borders.

The real fault lies with the ego and hubris of those who thought they could force a populace to behave in a way we wanted and expected them to.

 

[K1052]

NON existent transition period? How so? This has been in the works for months.. how much time do you think the afghan government needed to prepare?

My post was about the handover from one US presidential admin to the next. We have an unacceptably long lag time from election to inauguration.

 

[K1052]

Germans saying it out loud too:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427304720687898624

 

[NWRMidnight]

My post was about the handover from one US presidential admin to the next. We have an unacceptably long lag time from election to inauguration.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand, other than the out going President (Trump) and his administration blocked Biden at every turn, and did everything to make the transition as hard as possible. Regardless, what does this have to do with Afghanistan?

 

[fskimospy]

The Taliban didn't exactly hold up their end of the deal, did they?

They didn't have many responsibilities under the deal, it was basically Trump surrendering to them.

Regardless, even if that's the case do I understand you correctly as saying Biden should have recommitted to combat operations against the Taliban? This will require surging thousands of additional troops for an indefinite time period.

 

[fskimospy]

Matt Yglesias, as usual, hits this on the head:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1427293840143273988

 

[K1052]

What does this have to do with the topic at hand, other than the out going President (Trump) and his administration blocked Biden at every turn, and did everything to make the transition as hard as possible. Regardless, what does this have to do with Afghanistan?

I don't believe I made a specific claim on that but you want to keep responding to things I didn't say have at it.

 

[K1052]

They didn't have many responsibilities under the deal, it was basically Trump surrendering to them.

This is the essence of the Doha deal. Pompeo is all over the news disingenuously aghast that the Taliban did not abide by even their limited end of the agreement which was extremely evident all through the rest of 2020 when he was still SecState. Once the Taliban knew we were leaving the game was up and the only real question is how long the Afghan state would survive. A lot less time than everybody though it turned out!

 

[NWRMidnight]

I don't believe I made a specific claim on that but you want to keep responding to things I didn't say have at it.

WTF??

did you not say:

My post was about the handover from one US presidential admin to the next. We have an unacceptably long lag time from election to inauguration.

How can you sit there and say you didn't say anything about it? Are you so out of touch you don't know what you post? Or did the election to inauguration have nothing to do with the transition between Trump and Biden? What other US Presidential admin to the next are you talking about if you didn't say anything about it, and are not talking about the election to the inauguration that YOU brought up?