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Why aren't developers locking down framerates more often?

F

futurefields

Diamond Member
Just read the DF performance analysis on Infamous SS and it seems they have an unlocked framerate where the game spends a lot of time in the 30-30 range. IME a locked 30fps is always preferable if it is going to bounce around like that because when the framerate increases it doesnt actually create a smoother game, it creates judder in the form of framerate fluctuation. Havent developers learned yet that a locked 30 is much better than something floating between 30-40?
 
Have you played the game? There's no judder.

I mean maybe the frame rate moves but you can't tell during game play. That's all that matters.
 
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Digital Foundry -

"However, the disadvantages of the unlocked frame-rate are pretty clear when looking at the frame-time graph. Here, we study the amount of time each individual frame is on-screen. A locked 30fps or 60fps gives a level of consistency that is considerably easier on the eye, and helps to ensure a level response in terms of controller input lag. inFamous: Second Son spends much of its time between 30-40fps during gameplay - those additional frames over 30fps manifesting more as judder as opposed to a significantly smoother experience. It's hardly a massive issue, but a Killzone-style frame-rate limiting option would be welcome."
 
Again I say...play the game. You can't see this without looking at graphs so what is the point of worrying about it?

This is worse than slowing down a video to point out that the rock that you just passed didn't have dirt on it with one console.
 
I've not played the game and probably won't, but I have experienced this in other games. GTA 5 on Xbox 360 has a significant amount of judder due to the unlocked framerate. That's another game that would have benefited from a locked 30.
 
futurefields said:
I've not played the game and probably won't
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So you're full of crap and this thread is useless. You just regurgitate what some blogger thought about the game and complain about it to others as if it's fact.

Recap: You're vicariously angry because of what someone else disliked.

Go outside and get some fresh air.
 
cmdrdredd said:
Again I say...play the game. You can't see this without looking at graphs so what is the point of worrying about it?

This is worse than slowing down a video to point out that the rock that you just passed didn't have dirt on it with one console.
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Agree 100%. Absolutely nothing wrong with the frame rates in second son.
 
cmdrdredd said:
Have you played the game? There's no judder.

I mean maybe the frame rate moves but you can't tell during game play. That's all that matters.
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I have not yet played it, but would like to.

Killzone: SF had some judder or similar issues due to the unlocked framerate, most noticeable in multiplayer (SP now has a patch with an option to lock it at 30fps, if you prefer that). Have you or anyone else played both of these games and felt the same about KZSF as me but did not notice any judder in Infamous SS? I am wondering if, perhaps, you are just less sensitive to these sort of things, because I am extremely sensitive when it comes to smooth, consistent motion.
 
Without being able to enable and disable frame lock, there's no way I can know if it's actually smoother or not. All I can go off of is the game as it sits, and it's already smooth. Much smoother than GTA. Everything else is just theoretical.
 
hans030390 said:
I have not yet played it, but would like to.

Killzone: SF had some judder or similar issues due to the unlocked framerate, most noticeable in multiplayer (SP now has a patch with an option to lock it at 30fps, if you prefer that). Have you or anyone else played both of these games and felt the same about KZSF as me but did not notice any judder in Infamous SS? I am wondering if, perhaps, you are just less sensitive to these sort of things, because I am extremely sensitive when it comes to smooth, consistent motion.
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I played both and in MP on killzone the resolution was less and the fps higher(720p/60). In SP it ran 1080p/30 but supposedly wasn't locked. I can't confirm that.

Anyway to compare that to infamous both felt smooth and looked fine. Now it may depend on the TV in use as well. Some TVs don't display motion as well as others.
 
gorcorps said:
Without being able to enable and disable frame lock, there's no way I can know if it's actually smoother or not. All I can go off of is the game as it sits, and it's already smooth. Much smoother than GTA. Everything else is just theoretical.
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I agree. I've got about 8 hours into infamous and haven't noticed any frames issues, but that maybe because I was too busy having fun.

Wingznut said:
You mean some people just like to enjoy a game by playing it, instead of over analyzing resolution comparison videos, frame rate graphs, and sales charts? INCONCEIVABLE!
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Easy there, this kind of talk can get you kicked off the internet.
 
Rakehellion said:
So you're full of crap and this thread is useless. You just regurgitate what some blogger thought about the game and complain about it to others as if it's fact.

Recap: You're vicariously angry because of what someone else disliked.

Go outside and get some fresh air.
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Wow, calm down son.

You not noticing something doesn't = it not being there, thus the question remains. I used a DF article on Infamous as one example and I used my own experience with GTA5 as another.
 
futurefields said:
Wow, calm down son.

You not noticing something doesn't = it not being there, thus the question remains. I used a DF article on Infamous as one example and I used my own experience with GTA5 as another.
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GTA5 is also running on hardware nowhere close to the PS4.
 
futurefields said:
That has literally nothing to do with the topic.
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You brought up GTA5 which doesn't even run in any form on the PS4 hardware. It's not comparable at all. It doesn't prove anything in the slightest. What you think you see on GTA5 is hardware limitations. Nothing to do with not locking the FPS. In fact they couldn't lock the FPS in that game since it never holds 30.
 
futurefields said:
I don't understand why you think this thread has anything to do with PS4 or Xbox.
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You must have hit your head or something. Is second son available on any other console or PC? No...and if you think unlocked framerate = stutter then try turning off vsync on a PC and tell me the game stutters. It won't, and if it does it's hardware limitations.
 
cmdrdredd said:
You must have hit your head or something. Is second son available on any other console or PC?
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You must have hit your head or something. I used Infamous as an example, that doesn't mean this thread is about Infamous.

The question is why do developers choose to leave framerate unlocked so it goes slightly over 30, when locking it down to 30 would eliminate any judder caused by said framerate fluctuations leading to a subjectively smoother experience? If your game is mostly locked to 30 there is no reason to let it go to 31, 32, 33, 34 fps. It doesn't enhance the experience at all. Either lock it to 30, 60, or use some kind of triple buffering V-Sync to lock it at 40 or 50 if you have the means to do so. IMO every game should have locked framerate, it totally removes that immersion-killing framerate fluctuations.
 
OP, it depends on the game. If you read Digital Foundry they'll usually explain why they might have done one thing or another. I forget why some of them opt for unlocked framerates when the game consistently stays 30fps and above though.

cmdrdredd said:
Again I say...play the game. You can't see this without looking at graphs so what is the point of worrying about it?

This is worse than slowing down a video to point out that the rock that you just passed didn't have dirt on it with one console.
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No its not.

Fact is, if it wasn't for people delving into the technical aspects we wouldn't have a lot of the improvements that games have seen. Its basically the only area that games have, in absolute terms, improved. Unfortunately, it also highlights just how much further games can go.

What I don't get is if people discussing technical issues bothers you so much why you never take your own advice and stop worrying about it and not post in threads about it, copping the attitude you always do?

Also, believe it or not, its not just about graphics, this is stuff that actually does impact gameplay due to latency. If its good enough for you then fine, but stop acting like there's no point to analyzing games to this level since there's absolutely things that can be improved. Latency will also make a huge impact with stuff like VR.

Rakehellion said:
It isn't.
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Yes it is because a lot of displays don't manage framerates that aren't 30 or 60 well, and so you do get judder, tearing and other problems. Of course some games can limit this, hence why Digital Foundry does the in depth analysis that it does.
 
As a longtime PC gamer, I never heard of anyone complaining about "judder" on unlocked frame rates in the 30-60 range before.

I honestly think that DF is just trying to downplay the massive performance advantage the PS4 has over the Xbox One in an attempt to sound more "neutral". Since they know full well, how their write ups help fuel a lot of fanboy "discussion" about console performance.
 
futurefields said:
You not noticing something doesn't = it not being there
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You can't possibly notice it because YOU DIDN'T PLAY THE DAMNED GAME.


And if you don't notice a graphical detail, then it isn't there. If you need specialized tools to analyze the framerate of a game because you an't tell if it's 30fps or 40, then you're going out of your way to make yourself miserable.
 
futurefields said:
The question is why do developers choose to leave framerate unlocked so it goes slightly over 30, when locking it down to 30 would eliminate any judder caused by said framerate fluctuations leading to a subjectively smoother experience?
Click to expand...

You just answered your own question there, sweetie.

Dark Souls 2 on the Xbox 360 and PS3 are identical except the PS3 uses Vsync. Since you have no opinion other than what bloggers tell you, go read reviews of those two games and see what they think.
 
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