Why are they doing this?

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I think Dari is asking the question "why are they doing this?" because like Machiavelli who said something like this; "injuries ought to be done all at one time, so that, being tasted less, they offend less; benefits ought to be given little by little, so that the flavour of them may last longer." I think I'm quoting him... the point being that; do it (war) and get it over with and slowly help them back (those left alive)... I think this is Dari's point.. but, how would I know... I know..

WE HAVE A WINNER. You're on point.

To grasp the implication is not to agree to the point. You fail to provide a reason why they should go to war and get it over with. Why, is it making you wet your pants. Do you not like the tension of anticipation, or the fear you'll be asleep? What feeling drives you to ask your crazy question? You equated war to justice which is absurd. You made absurd assumptions based on the worst aspects of man. You clarify nothing regarding any benefits of strength. Where's the cleverness or loftiness of points you can't defend?

The obvious and profound defect in your reasoning is that societies can progress. Your Koreas are all about saving face as they try to grow out of their mess. They want to fly and carry their cabbage too. All that's necessary for progress is to negotiate with an eye to satisfying the unconscious needs of the other. There is no enemy and us. There is only the enemy and he is us. Androids do indeed dream of electric sheep. Photonic sheep, though, are always a surprise.

 

[DealMonkey]

Dari, your push for war, as usual, neglects the possibility that peace can be found and war averted. Wouldn't it be foolish to rush into war only to find out later you could have just worked harder towards peace and no one would have to die unnecessarily?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Zebo
Dari is mentally ill PS. He's the ugly fat kid everyone, even the girls, beat up in 6th grade. Now he projects his "manlyness" on the intraweb so we really think he's a big man not the sandbox kid.

I thought Dari was the "starwars kid." No? At least, that's how I pictured him. ;P

Since we are giving our views of what posters look like.....
You know that vid clip of that monkey who is "relieving" itself? Thats how I picture you.

J/K

CkG

Heh, relieving himself in your gas tank maybe! Despite the whole "monkey" theme, I sort of imagine you as a young Newt Gingrich. It would be interesting though, to have a rogue's gallery of P&N regulars...

 

[LunarRay]

I'm intrigued by Dari's issue. Let them (I assume just them) go to war and presumably end what ever issues between the Koreans exist... in effect reunite the survivors establishing a united Korean government at the expense of the folks both military and civilian, the infrastructure and the rest that gets killed or destroyed in the process. This, I further assume, will be the least painful road to a conclusion that will occur in any event. Sorta destiny of inevitability..
These are today Sovereign nations. They are populated by very different people although of similar ancestry. One is Capitalist the other is Communist (sorta). One is rich and the other poor. There is a popular movement among the youth toward unification in the South and possibly the same in the North, but, who knows for sure. The US has said it has strategic reasons to keep the status quo. Japan has said this as well. (As I understand it) The South would not benefit from the unification financially. The North has nukes (probably) and is hungry. An all out war would cost more than 10m Korean lives or if the South is fully infiltrated by the Northern spies and insurgents maybe less.. the South will lose and the North will prevail and install an unfriendly government.
Can the UN just stand by and let it happen? No, I don't think so. Can the US? No, I don't think so. How could we let all those folks just die and not get involved as we are now?
The big query I have; is why would anyone want this to happen? More importantly; what is our roll to be if it is destined to occur. Can we fight a land war in Korea and have the support of the US people? Not now, I don't think... A nuke war? And, finally; do the North Koreans see this as an opportune time to launch an invasion into the South given the climate in the US today and our military and economy being as it is today?
Sounds to me like someone in Washington see this and knows it can't do anything about it anyhow... It could but, at what cost...
Interesting...

 

[povertystruck]

In a land war the U.S. would lose miserably, but would be threatened with nukes first that can hit the U.S.A. itself.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: povertystruck
In a land war the U.S. would lose miserably, but would be threatened with nukes first that can hit the U.S.A. itself.

Yeah.. I think that the folks in DC are prepping us for this scenario via Dari and his like minded thinkers. We don't want a nuke issue and should stay out of it and use the 'better now and quick than later and slow' argument.. it is better for them in other words and us too... let em battle each other and we'll deal with the winner... a cagy philosophy...

 

[povertystruck]

Reality check: South Korea and North Korea try to get along, the north is taking tourists fom the south. The two that are not getting along is the U.S. and NK. the south trys to keep things calm. The north is currently using nuclear blackmail against the U.S. and that is what the the 6-way(Russian,China,Japan,South Korea, U.S., and North Korea) talks are for, to spread out the cost.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: povertystruck
Reality check: South Korea and North Korea try to get along, the north is taking tourists fom the south. The two that are not getting along is the U.S. and NK. the south trys to keep things calm. The north is currently using nuclear blackmail against the U.S. and that is what the the 6-way(Russian,China,Japan,South Korea, U.S., and North Korea) talks are for, to spread out the cost.

I assume by this you mean that it may be destiny that the North and South unite and it will be peaceful. or That they will remain separate and just visit each other and the status quo will remain.
I think the latter is supportive of the former and I just don't see it as a peace full endeavor... not with out the support of the big six.. whom I've not heard support a unified Korea..

 

[Moonbeam]

In other News.

 

[Drift3r]

Damn double post !

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Dari


And Yes, we are quoting Machiavelli. I've read the Prince at least 5 times. It is the second most influential book in history. Now I'm reading Thoughts on Machiavelli.

I much prefer Sun Tzu.

'War is a matter of vital importance to the State; the province of life and death; the road to survival or ruin. It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied..'

'Weapons are tools of ill omen.' War is a grave matter; one is apprehensive lest men embark upon it without due relfection.'

or

''War is like unto fire; those who will not put aside weapons are themselves consumed by them.'

Of course there is much more to Sun Tzu then these lines. He starts his thesis warning men of the folly of jumping into wars without clearly thinking them through and then precedes to take the application and philosophy of waging war to a whole new level that even Machiavelli in a lot ways fails to grasp. Machiavelli is good don't get me wrong but Sun Tzu is ahead in some many areas and in so many ways it's not even funny.

 

[Moonbeam]

War is a purely mechanical event in which the self hate building within groups of people reaches the point where it begins to leak out as paranoia. At that point, the course of human events will always supply some triggering mechanism and the group launches into a mass purging as it self destructs. The psychotic episode can be revolution or war, it matters not which. What is important is the electric contact high produced by mass psychosis and mob rule. The disease of self hate blows off steam through loss of self control, the casting aside of the repressive self, the conscience, and moral code. Human life is characterized by boring stretches of repressive self control interspersed by periods of psychotic but intense life. We are waiting for the signal.