WHY ARE THERE PALESTINIAN 'RESISTANCE' FIGHTERS?

[Rison]

This is a very simple question and it lies at the heart of the current conflict. The fact is Palestine has a legitimate government, which represents the people. It must also take the responsiblilty of protecting and being held accountable of the people. If all this is true then the resistance entities in the Palestinian area of control (the West Bank and Gaza) must be outlawed because they are considered 'resistance' groups when a legitimate government is already established. In essence, they are competing with the Palestinian Authority for influence and control of the territories. Add to the fact their methodology and they should be seen as a hostile agent by all sides.
In practice, these groups are very popular and their actions are condoned by the PA. They enjoy popular throughout the Arab world and are hailed as 'freedom'fighters' by western arab apologists?

If this is the circumstance that Israel is faced with, then what is wrong with its policy of neutralizing PA forces because it is out of their territories that the 'resistance' fighters come out of? Does Israel really have of choice if its 'partner' (and the legitimate government of Palestine) intrinsically supports these groups? And since the PA is doing next to nothing to stop these 'resistance' fighters, doesn't Israel have the right to liquidate them? What is wrong with interdicting them before they commit mass murder? Can anyone answer these questions?

Another 'Resistance' mission accomplished

 

[Czar]

Israel has extremists like Palistinia has.

When Israel attacks Palistinians and kill their citizens that provokes them to revange.
When Palistinians attack Israel and kill their citiziens that provokes them to revange.

Both are to blame, and stop trying to put all the blame on Palistinia.

 

[Aelus]

because they're trying to free their nation which is under occupation?

Aelus

 

[Rison]

But the Palestinians have a legitimate government which is working out a long-term settlement to the occupation problem. The terrorists only make things harder for their government. It lowers their legitimacy. Whose sides are you guys on? The Israeli/Palestinian Authority or the 'resistance' fighters?

Don't forget that Israel occupied the territories as a defensive measure after countless arab incursions.

 

[Aelus]

The occupation of the occupied areas is more about expansian than about safety. This is proven by sharons policy of expansion in those areas, instead of reduction. israel's military is extremely advanced, which lowers the need for the buffers.

furthermore, those groups think that israel doesn't want to comply with the demands of the PA, therefor, they want to fight for their independance. They are probably right that israel doesn't truly want peace, the policy of expansion confirms that.

my loyalties lie with a good/fair agreement on peace in that region, not with any groups.

Aelus

 

[Czar]

Rison,

The Israelis are not the good guys, they are far from innocent.
The Palistinians are also not the good guys and also far from innocent.

You are obviosly on the Israelis side and cant or more like refuse to understand the reason for the Palistininans attacking Israel.

 

[Cyberian]

<< If all this is true then the resistance entities in the Palestinian area of control (the West Bank and Gaza) must be outlawed because they are considered 'resistance' groups when a legitimate government is already established. >>

OK, they are officially outlawed.
Now what?

 

[Rison]

Czar, the Arabs always have a reason for fighting Israel. They fought in 1948 because they were against the Israeli state. They fought several times after that for similar reasonsNow they're fighting because they want the Israelis out of the occupied territories? What will happen if Israel reaches an agreement and leaves the territories? Can you guys guarantee that the Arabs won't find a new reason to fight Israel? No. Next, it might be for the Right of Return of refugees.


There is no Israeli expansion policy. The nationalists simply took advantage of the occupation to build settlements. If there was an expansion policy, Israel would have all of Egypt, Lebanon and Jordan by now.

 

[takhyon]

Maybe because the UN describes Israel as the "Occupying power".

 

[Rison]

OK, they are officially outlawed.
Now what?

The PA should actively outlaw them by destroying their bases and putting their commanders in prison. They are a threat to them. But the PA refuses to do so or only when there is ample amount of pressure. If the PA won't do its job then Israel will have no choice but to do it itself.

 

[Czar]

Rison,
Here is an example why they are a bit pissed
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,604092,00.html

We are talking about a reason why Palistinians are pissed, not arabs in general.

 

[Rison]

You guys still haven't answered my question. Why is anyone recognizing the 'resistance' fighters when they pose a threat to all sides?

 

[Czar]

<< Why is anyone recognizing the 'resistance' fighters when they pose a threat to all sides? >>


Because Israel has a high tech army to attack the Palistinians while the Palistinians have nothing but the "resistance" fighters.

 

[Rison]

And here is why the Israelis are pissed.

The Palestinian Authority condemned Thursday's attack, saying it was working in its "full capacity to end attacks against Israeli civilians".

BUS TRAGEDY

 

[SuperTool]

Of course the PA secretly supports these groups. If it wasn't for these terrorists, what bargaining position would they have against Israel? They have no tanks, planes or ships, nor would they know what to do with them. Terrorists are their weapon of choice. Take away these maniacs, and they got nothing. The degree to which the PA clamps down on these groups is what they bring to the table in negotiations. What do you think the peace process is all about?

 

[ToBeMe]

IF this is the point Rison is trying to make, I somewhat agree................

In the not to distant future I believe Arafat will be overthrown/killed. His influence over these groups is diminishing rapidly it seems and if these more "extreme" groups were to acheive a takeover, then I do believe all hell would break loose in that region. I mean, you have to admit, it was only a few weeks ago that Arafat himself asked for Israeli assistance in controling these people and they do not seem to adhere to his leadship anymore......

In stating the above, I also admitt that it's doubtfull there is any way to successfully control/take out this threat because in doing so, the whole area would most likely become active militarily. That situation is one I fear will never end without a LOT of bloodshed.......even if the U.S. would suddenly halt aid/support of Israel, they have the means available to them already to inflict massive casualties upon Arab countries and without outside intervention I'm not to sure they (Israel) could not defeat most of the region.........

 

[Czar]

ToBeMe
Very much agree.

 

[SuperTool]

Isn't Israel destroying PA offices?
Kinda hard to clamp down on other groups when you are being clamped down on and there is no police infrastructure.
I think Arafat is safe. Israelis love to hate him, but I doubt they will find more cooperation from anyone else. They could have taken him out long time ago, but they know what's good for them. Arafat is not the cause of this problem that they got.

 

[jjones]

<< I think Arafat is safe. Israelis love to hate him, but I doubt they will find more cooperation from anyone else. They could have taken him out long time ago, but they know what's good for them. Arafat is not the cause of this problem that they got. >>


it's not the israelis that arafat has to worry about; it's his own people.

 

[Bushi]

umm... ok

The basic problem was, and still is, the Israeli occupation of parts of palistine and Israeli attempts to deny such an occupation, as we always hear, where Israeli polititians used terms such as "territories under Israeli administration", which reflects an ideological vision, the essential aim of which is colonizing the land and preventing the Palestinian people from realizing their national rights on their own land.

here is the key word: Israeli occupation forces

The problem is that while some parts are officially under palistinian control, they are accually being controled by the israeli authorities. The palistinian Goverment is too weak to "protect" it's citizens. There is too much to say about this but in an answer to the question I'll just quote some recent headlines:

November 27, 2001
JENIN, West Bank ? Israeli occupation bulldozers razed Tuesday night vast areas of Palestinian arable lands and destroyed a road in Jenin.

The UN Commissioner on Human Rights, MS Marry Robinson said in a press briefing ? Israeli occupation of the Palestinian land is principally a violation of human rights and it urgently have to be ended.

GAZA CITY (AFP)

November 20, 2001
Israeli tanks and bulldozers entered an autonomous Palestinian sector of the Gaza Strip overnight, witnesses said early Tuesday. Israeli troops encroached 100 meters (yards) inside the Rafah refugee camp, near the Egyptian border, destroying three houses in the process.

I'm not going to mention the countless civilians who die weekly from israeli bullets because palistinian militants have done the same thing too.. but I'd like to make a note that the number of palistinians who die are far far more than the israeli's.



Here is a nice news article if you want more of the same.


Israel is occuping land that is officially not Israeli dispite world wide renouncement which results in people trying to take the law in their own hands.

 

[Rison]

If the PA is using the 'resistance' fighters as a bargaining tool, then he has his work cut out for him.

First off all, he doesn't control them since they won't listen to his 'cease-fires.'

Second, they are popular and that spells danger for the PA.

Third, by dealing with local PA commanders, Israel can marginalize the true power of the PA.

In the end, their 'bargaining chips' will gain the upper hand and do away with them. Arafat has no choice but to clamp down on these 'resistance' fighters, aka terrorists, end the tight control of the IDF on his villages, and provide economically for his people. The PA and terrorists' campaign is a self-defeating campaign and Arafat should realize that. The terrorist must know that they cannot defeat the third most powerful army in the world. Arafat needs to be practical by getting rid of these terrorists, get rid of the right of return of refugees to Israel proper, and become more friendly towards the Israelis. He has very little room to maneuver. He must help his people by seeing the world from their eyes. They care more about jobs than resistance. It is only because of the tightening of the noose by Israel that they support terrorists.

 

[ToBeMe]

<<

<< I think Arafat is safe. Israelis love to hate him, but I doubt they will find more cooperation from anyone else. They could have taken him out long time ago, but they know what's good for them. Arafat is not the cause of this problem that they got. >>


it's not the israelis that arafat has to worry about; it's his own people. >>


EXACTLY!!! I think you misunderstood me Supertool.........I don't think the Israelis will "take out" Arafat.......No, if it happens it will be his own people, but, the "extremist" end of it............

 

[Aelus]

Arafat is losing control of his people because of all the israeli murders on terrorist leaders. Having a bunch of martyrs, which were caused by israel putting down nearly every principle of modern justice, helps their popularity alot.

ofcourse, this might all be part of sharons master plan to start a full scale genocide to end what he started 20 years ago.

edit: israel has benefits to keep this conflict going, because every day that passes, a new house erects in the occupied areas, and the claim to a piece of land diminishes. Ofcourse i'm not in sharons head, so i don't know he weighs the national interest to constant terrorism.

Aelus

 

[Rison]

Supertool and Bushi, look at my first post. It'll clarify some things for you guys.

Sharon is more of a realist than Arafat, who hasn't realized the demise of his own authority yet. Just about two weeks ago, his head of Preventive Security in gaza resigned.

 

[SuperTool]

Terrorists can't defeat an army, but they can disrupt a country.
Look what 9.11 did in the U.S. So much damage to the economy, the country's psyche. There is one way of life in peace and another in fear. It's hard to run normal business and attract investment in a volatile environment. Israel will not be defeated, but I don't think they want to live in this situation for decades. To be denied normal peaceful existance, to always be on alert. To have to relive the anger and the fear everytime a bomb goes off. It's draining.
Palestinians don't want to live like this either, but they don't have much going for them, and their lives are already disrupted.
This issue needs to be settled once and for all by the United States. We gave Israelis a long time to do it themselves, and it's pretty clear they can't do it.