Why are the stuffs we're building nowadays don't last?

[Amused]

Originally posted by: skace

- Capitalism does not reward the best product, it rewards the best profit margin

A very cynical and incorrect statment.

Actually, capitalism rewards the best product at the best price sold by a company that can remain profitable.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Take new cars for example they only last a few years under normal conditions, but then take an old car and some are actually still running today.

Cars today last longer and go further than EVER before, by a HUGE margin. Before the Japanese led the way in the 1970's, getting 100,000 miles out of a car was considered a MAJOR development. Now it is everyday and beyond.

I've seen trucks less then 1 year already start to rust. Like, wow. Manufacturer's defence is "well it's because of the salt on the road" well, we've been putting salt/sand on roads since winter existed, why is it only affecting cars now?

Vehicles of today are more rust resistant than they have EVER been. There was a period in the 1970's when both Japanese and American cars alike used thinner steel and hence rusted faster, but that has LONG since passed.

Use your own eyes. Count the number of severely rusted vehicles you see on the road tomorrow. Back in the 50's-60's-70's you'd typically see far more.

And we have NOT been putting salt on the roads "since winter existed." Not even CLOSE. Wide scale use of salt for road de-icing didn't even ramp up here until the late 1960's. Just look at this chart.

Inform yourself better, please.

LOL, anyone old enough to remember the Chevy Vega? On a quiet evening you could actulally hear that thing rust away.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Amused
A very cynical and incorrect statment.

Actually, capitalism rewards the best product at the best price sold by a company that can remain profitable.

Cynical yes, Incorrect no.

 

[sao123]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Like fueling an airliner they know exactly how much fuel to meter in the plane including a surplus for safety margins.

Today CAD/CAM can design a structure to withstand exactly what needs to be done. In the old days trial and error resulted in a lot of things being overbuilt and efficiency was about as good as a tree stump.

rubbish. there is no such thing as being overbuilt.
if companies would stop wasting money on advertising and upper management, and then put that money into their products... they would sell equally well.
the only reason for having a CEO is because your product sucks and you need someone who is shady who can figure out how to sell a crappy product and stay in business.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: sao123

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Like fueling an airliner they know exactly how much fuel to meter in the plane including a surplus for safety margins.

Today CAD/CAM can design a structure to withstand exactly what needs to be done. In the old days trial and error resulted in a lot of things being overbuilt and efficiency was about as good as a tree stump.

rubbish. there is no such thing as being overbuilt.
if companies would stop wasting money on advertising and upper management, and then put that money into their products... they would sell equally well.
the only reason for having a CEO is because your product sucks and you need someone who is shady who can figure out how to sell a crappy product and stay in business.

That's a tad cynical too. Not that I'm prone to defend CEOs, but some are a little better at it than that.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Amused
A very cynical and incorrect statment.

Actually, capitalism rewards the best product at the best price sold by a company that can remain profitable.

Cynical yes, Incorrect no.

So quality and price competition do not exist? Consumer demand means nothing?

 

[Regs]

It does not make much sense to me. We rather save to buy cheap crap so we can buy more cheap crap. Mean while we're sucking on China's tit.

 

[Muse]

I see people talking a lot about China making cheap goods and there's a lot of stuff coming out of China that's suspect in quality but my perspective is this:

China's economy is exploding. Japan was in a similar circumstance during the 1950s and to a lesser degree in the 1960s, recovering from WW II. They flooded the US market (and probably a lot of others) with very cheap inferior merchandise. Made in Japan at that time meant that it was junky, flimsy, wouldn't last at all. Japan completely turned around that image! Especially in the the auto industry they developed and implemented design and manufacturing methods that became the envy of the world. China's goods nowadays (ever since I've seen the pronounced influx of their goods into the US) are an order of magnitude better than what Japan was known for 50 years ago. Much of it is quite decent. I have a fair number of China made tools that are on a par with comparable US made tools and cost much less. No, they aren't sophisticated tools, but they are decently designed, well made and will last. They don't always do it, but they often take the trouble to design their stuff adequately, evidently analyzing what's in the marketplace in doing so.

 

[Regs]

Well yes, Muse, blaming china for all our problems is an unfair generalization. If there is anything I don't like about China other than their poor environmental responsibility and awful standards of living, it's that they purposely deflate their currency to attract more international business . They do this to in sacrifice of their citizens that are making 6 cents an hour living in 6 ft x 6ft boxes. Their economy is booming, but it's booming from a unjust balance or bubble waiting to pop. If they do pop, god help us all.

 

[Kev]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Compare to the stuffs that were built with archaic methods and primitive materials? On one side you got monuments and bridges and buildings and whatnots that lasted through millenniums or centuries that were built with stones and other unrefined materials, on the others we got bridges that can't even last a 100 years.

Aren't we supposed to be advancing? Granted that the materials nowadays have higher strength and tensile but why can't we design them to last as well?

Are you purposely pluralizing words that shouldn't be pluralized to annoy people?

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: RedSquirrel
Take new cars for example they only last a few years under normal conditions, but then take an old car and some are actually still running today.

Cars today last longer and go further than EVER before, by a HUGE margin. Before the Japanese led the way in the 1970's, getting 100,000 miles out of a car was considered a MAJOR development. Now it is everyday and beyond.

I've seen trucks less then 1 year already start to rust. Like, wow. Manufacturer's defence is "well it's because of the salt on the road" well, we've been putting salt/sand on roads since winter existed, why is it only affecting cars now?

Vehicles of today are more rust resistant than they have EVER been. There was a period in the 1970's when both Japanese and American cars alike used thinner steel and hence rusted faster, but that has LONG since passed.

Use your own eyes. Count the number of severely rusted vehicles you see on the road tomorrow. Back in the 50's-60's-70's you'd typically see far more.

And we have NOT been putting salt on the roads "since winter existed." Not even CLOSE. Wide scale use of salt for road de-icing didn't even ramp up here until the late 1960's. Just look at this chart.

Inform yourself better, please.

LOL, anyone old enough to remember the Chevy Vega? On a quiet evening you could actulally hear that thing rust away.

When I stop to think about it I am amazed at how absolutely reliable and maintenance free cars today are compared to the way it was when I first started driving. Back then you had to do plugs, points, and condensor, and retime every 3000 miles just for starters. As for rust it was rare for a car to make it to 5 years anyplace that has seasonal weather and associated road treatment without having some rust along the rocker panels and fender wells etc.

 

[illusion88]

Originally posted by: jagec
We can easily design them to last as well, or much longer.

But people don't want to pay the premium that this would require.

Governments always go with the lowest bidder, even if the quality is terrible and it ends up costing them more in the long term. Individuals would rather buy 10 Made-In-China pieces of crap which break in a week than a single quality lifetime item. And people demand more and more "features", which leads to more complexity and lower reliability.

If you want things that DO last, check out simple items like skis...much more reliable, lighter, and harder to break today than the wooden skis of yesteryear.

Bikes, too, if you compensate for the multiple-speeds thing.

heh, that's funny you mention skis. I go through one pair of skis a year. But then again, I also ski 140+ days in a year.