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Why Are The Progressives Pro Abortion If They Are Anti Death Penalty?

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glenn1 said:
Men "opting out" happens all the time in the inner city, and you fall over yourselves to give them all welfare since their drug dealing income isn't W2 reportable and thus they look poor. Whereas if a man self-identifies as the father and gets a job, you garnish his wages for child support. So in reality you directly support irresponsibility with your policies.
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Do you realize how small a percentage of welfare recipients adult males make up? The major majority of those on welfare are children, and the remaining adults are mostly their mothers.

It's super shocking that Mr. Mandatory Abortions for Progressives might not know what he's talking about before opening his mouth again.
 
nixium said:
I haven't researched this case. As long as this is true, and the father can take custody and force the woman to support it, it's fine. If not, then there's definitely a flaw.

It's a different case before the child is born, and I can understand why this is so. I just wish liberals on the whole would say - yes, men can't have "paper" abortions, and it's inherently unfair, and that the laws do it for the interests of the child. Instead there are calls to "man" up or be chaste - calls that do not apply to a woman who can simply abort if she doesn't want the baby.
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It's not inherently unfair because it is the existence of the child that matters. Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all times. If you believe things are unfair now, a 'paper abortion' would make things even more unfair, just in the opposite direction.
 
eskimospy said:
Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all times.
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You keep saying that, but the custodial parent is not required to provide financially. In fact, the custodial parent is not required to do just about anything. The only real thing the custodial parent is "required" to do is to make sure the child attends school.

The burden of care is not distributed equally.
 
Texashiker said:
You keep saying that, but the custodial parent is not required to provide financially. In fact, the custodial parent is not required to do just about anything. The only real thing the custodial parent is "required" to do is to make sure the child attends school.

The burden of care is not distributed equally.
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They can't pee standing up and have to deal with blood. It's more or less fair. Or are you suggesting that we adopt sharia law? Banana bread.
 
Texashiker said:
You keep saying that, but the custodial parent is not required to provide financially. In fact, the custodial parent is not required to do just about anything. The only real thing the custodial parent is "required" to do is to make sure the child attends school.

The burden of care is not distributed equally.
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Yeah, that's all the custodial parent is required to do.

/facepalm
 
eskimospy said:
It's not inherently unfair because it is the existence of the child that matters. Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all times. If you believe things are unfair now, a 'paper abortion' would make things even more unfair, just in the opposite direction.
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Post birth yes (assuming what you said about a man challenging an adoption is true)

Pre birth, absolutely not.

If the man wants the child to exist, he has no option to make it happen if the woman doesn't.

If the woman wants the child to exist, then the man has no option to not make the child exist.

This is unfair, and I can understand why, but I can't make it any clearer why it's unfair.
 
eskimospy said:
It's not inherently unfair because it is the existence of the child that matters. Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all times. If you believe things are unfair now, a 'paper abortion' would make things even more unfair, just in the opposite direction.
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Wh is it unfair when your plan would be to give them some other people's money via Uncle Sam anyway? Are you mad those being slightly irresponsible this way are taking up money you would rather give to the completely irresponsible?
 
Texashiker said:
You keep saying that, but the custodial parent is not required to provide financially. In fact, the custodial parent is not required to do just about anything. The only real thing the custodial parent is "required" to do is to make sure the child attends school.

The burden of care is not distributed equally.
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I don't believe this is quite true. A friend of mine has a child with a deadbeat Mom, who apart from providing the basic necessities of life, would not go an inch further. He got full custody of the child, and she's forced to pay child support. With the right lawyer and the proper proof, I think it's possible for the father to take custody in such cases.
 
justoh said:
They can't pee standing up and have to deal with blood. It's more or less fair. Or are you suggesting that we adopt sharia law? Banana bread.
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On the whole, women get screwed over more from life, so as long as things are fair post-birth, I can take "paper" abortions not being available for men.
 
glenn1 said:
Wh is it unfair when your plan would be to give them some other people's money via Uncle Sam anyway? Are you mad those being slightly irresponsible this way are taking up money you would rather give to the completely irresponsible?
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It looks like post-birth, things are tricky. Whoever doesn't have custody gets completely screwed over.

Eg. Woman + custody gets welfare from the government for not having a job.

Man without custody gets threatened with jail if he doesn't pay up.

The reverse is probably true if the man gets custody, but courts generally award custody to the woman.
 
It comes down to practicality: Conservatives want live babys so they can turn them into dead soldiers. Progressives feel that is too much bother, though, and would rather kill the kid right away.
 
Scotteq said:
It comes down to practicality: Conservatives want live babys so they can turn them into dead soldiers. Progressives feel that is too much bother, though, and would rather kill the kid right away.
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So who is the true conservative?
 
eskimospy said:
It's not inherently unfair because it is the existence of the child that matters. Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all times. If you believe things are unfair now, a 'paper abortion' would make things even more unfair, just in the opposite direction.
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In what way would a "paper abortion" make things unfair?

In such a case men and women would both have the choice to be parents or not.

The only disadvantage for the woman would be a couple hours and $500 spent at PP. I think the fact that she could choose to be a parent without needing the guy to also consent more than makes up for that.

EDIT:Sayng that "it is the existence of the child that matters" has nothing to do with whether it is unfair or not. And your exact argument also works for pro-life people. It is not unfair that the woman should be forced to carry the child for 9 months because it is the existence of the child/fetus that matters. Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all time; after all if the guy kills the fetus he goes to jail.
 
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nixium said:
I don't believe this is quite true. A friend of mine has a child with a deadbeat Mom, who apart from providing the basic necessities of life, would not go an inch further. He got full custody of the child, and she's forced to pay child support. With the right lawyer and the proper proof, I think it's possible for the father to take custody in such cases.
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Funny I have seen the court order for a man that got custody and the woman did not have to pay a cent.

And this is after she kept collecting child support for 2 months after abandoning her children.
 
nehalem256 said:
In what way would a "paper abortion" make things unfair?

In such a case men and women would both have the choice to be parents or not.

The only disadvantage for the woman would be a couple hours and $500 spent at PP. I think the fact that she could choose to be a parent without needing the guy to also consent more than makes up for that.

EDIT:Sayng that "it is the existence of the child that matters" has nothing to do with whether it is unfair or not. And your exact argument also works for pro-life people. It is not unfair that the woman should be forced to carry the child for 9 months because it is the existence of the child/fetus that matters. Everyone's responsibility to the child is the same at all time; after all if the guy kills the fetus he goes to jail.
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What did you and your girlfriend do last valentines day?
 
glenn1 said:
The boon to civilization is less progressive babies being born due to abortion. Again, I support abortion, would mandate it for progressives if I could.
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A disgusting bloody thread by this trolling member. P&N cesspool it is.

The likely serious avocation of politically oriented eugenics. Violent fascists remain present and are enabled to ruin the forum.
 
Do like I did, reversible vasectomy, Never worry about unwanted pregnancy, whether the woman took her pill, no child support to worry about. And if they do become pregnant, you know they cheated. Best thing I ever did.
 
Texashiker said:
nehalem256 has a valid point as society holds men and women to different standards.

Man knocks woman up, too bad for him, he should have kept his penis in his pants. Men are told to "man up", take responsibility, get a job and provide for his family.

Woman gets knocked up, she has the choice to get an abortion and avoid the responsibility of having a child. The woman is also told to sign up on all the social programs she can get.




Its called taking responsibility for your actions.
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On top of that if man kills woman (pregnant) he is charged with double murder.
(See Scott Peterson.)
 
soundforbjt said:
Do like I did, reversible vasectomy, Never worry about unwanted pregnancy, whether the woman took her pill, no child support to worry about. And if they do become pregnant, you know they cheated. Best thing I ever did.
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I just don't see how you could bring yourself to go back under the knife for the second time. You'd really, really have to want to have some kids.
 
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