Why are the Jews so stubborn?

[highme]

If we are to discuss atrocities of WWII, The Holocaust, and its affects. Please don't forget the 20,000+ US soldiers who were sent to POW camps in Siberia because the US Government didn't want to attract attention to the fact that they were smuggling all the best German scientists into the US. (This is a very abriged version, but dangit the CIA is a great organization.)

As far as the Israel/Palestine argument, I don't know enough to contribute. Sorry.

 

[zippy]

As a Jew with 2 grandparents who miraculously survived the Holocaust I can tell you why the Holocaust is so remembered.

Firstly, proportionally, there are more Jews in public positions. 10% of Senate is Jewish, yet about 2% of the US population is Jewish. Many movie companies are owned by Jews and Steven Spielberg is Jewish. Spielberg has set up an organization that tapes interview testimonies from Holocaust survivors; there have been 50,000 interviews. Finally, because we refuse to forget and we refuse to let the world forget. History repeats itself, that is why we have/had to take History class in school. The Jewish people have been persecuted for thousands of years and we want to end that streak, that is why we refuse to forget, if we do forget, then it will just happen again.

I do not know of any Jewish person who feels that we deserve pity for the Holocaust. I know that about 99% feel that those 6million deserve rememberance.

I'm sure that Armenian and Russians feel the same way, yet, there isn't an overwhelming Armenian or Russian group in the USA or Europe that gets media attention. Russia is worried about the here and now because it has some issues so it can't make big organizations for the rememberance of those killed under tyrannical rule.

The Armenians were virtually wiped out, unfortunately. However, at "Hebrew High School" (one night a week for two hours during the school year I go to it) when we were studying the Holocaust we actually watched a few videos about the Armenians and one video that was an interview of a son of Armenian survivors.

Prodigy^, I have no respect for you, your posts have been of ignorance, bigotry, and malice. If you wanted to learn more, you could have simply said something to the effect of "Why did Ehud Barak AND Yassir Arafat both back out of negotiations? Whats going on there, why do both feel that they are entitled to that land?" Instead of your comments.

I had 11 relatives murdered in the Holocaust, anyone who puts down the Holocaust is, as mosdef put it, spitting on those graves.

Jerusalem is in Israeli hands, but is a city which literally has three sections; Jewish, Muslim, and Christian.

Impact55:

<< but I will tell you that I kind of hate when the jews think they should be praised for being in a holocaust >>



WTF? Why would we want praise for having 6 million of our relatives, friends, and bretheren murdered by an ignorant sadist (Hitler)?

Also, in the &quot;Old Testament&quot; (Torah) G-d says that the Jews are His chosen people and that they are to have Palestine (actually larger than Israel).

This is most likely my last post in this thread, it is making me too angry to read some of this (mostly people putting down the Holocaust or saying ignorant things) and I don't wanna start crudely flaming someone.

BoberFett: BTW, we didn't choose to leave, we had no choice.

 

[DABANSHEE]

Ah, highme the CIA didnt even exist during the dark days of WWII &amp; is actually a post war invention. I wouldn't beleive all you hear about 20000 Americans POWs being sent to Siberia. Especially seeing as the American POWs were prisoners of Germany &amp; Japan, they couldnt really send then to Siberia as it was in the hands of one of their enamies, Russia. Maybe you are referring to the Korean War, where its known that some American POWs were sent to Russia, but most expert doubt more than about 20 were actually sent there, let alone 20000.

The fact is most of these conspiracies people hear are undoubtably false.

MosDef Israel was in fact the agressor in both the 1956 war &amp; the 1967 war, only in the 1973 war were they a victim of agression (the 1948 war was realy a civil war). Also the worlds countries did not vote to make the British give Palestine to the Jews. The British made that decision unilaterally back in 1917 in there 'Balfour Declaration' to gain support from Jewish financiers for their war effort against Imperial Germany. The funny thing is they also promised Palestine to the indigenous Arabs to, if they help Lawrence in his campaign against the Turks. We in Australia know quite a bit about this as it was the 'Australian Light Horse' that was mainly responsable in driving the Turks out of Palestine (they actually took part in the last successful cavalry charge in history)

I've got nothing against Jews themselves (among the Russian, Danish, Dutch, German, Italian, French, English, Scottish, Irish &amp; Javanese in me, I'm part Jewish too). I just think the whole philosophy of Zionism is flawed.

 

[zippy]

Sorry, my mistake, I'll fix that now.

 

[lavince]

Sure we have to remember the history, but the fact is, Jews and Arabs should live peacefully. For the Jews, do you think you guys deserve to take over other people's land and send them to camps just because God gave you the land long long time ago? Yes, Jews could buy the land (much like japanese did to US), but not invade others.

 

[Prodigy^]

Ok I'm gonna let it out.....

the replies I've gotten from Jews here CLEARLY show that you ARE stubborn, take critique personally and immediately turn offensive instead of argueing normally.

steelthorn: To me, an atheist, there's NO way I'd buy the &quot;God gave us the country&quot;-story. And how would you think the world would work if we based our lives and laws on religion? all stuff with no proof? hah....it would be anarchy. you need to get out of your cage and face reality.

I don't mean to sound racist, but it seems like most of the Jewish people here really are as some of the stories go.....stubborn, and on the inside, not at all as friendly and holy as they seem on the outside.

 

[Prodigy^]

oh, and it's very sad that you, zippy, whom I've always thought was a nice and fun guy, turns out to be like this

 

[Raspewtin]

I really think people are people, whether they be Jews, or otherwise. I've found tha many very-religious people are stubborn and close-minded b/c making sense of these religions as time goes on gets more and more difficult, as they become more and more outdated. Thus it seems easier to put the blinders on. If all of the MiddleEast was Jewish and Isreal was Muslim, I doubt anything would be different.

 

[MrPALCO]

The &quot;Jews&quot; have a Written Contract with God.

A firm resolve regarding Territory is the result.

Others have made claims as well. These claims are based on the... words... of their god.

Ultimately it is a contest of whose Words will Rule.

Answer...the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

 

[BowDown]

Ha! Holy-War... What a crock of $hit.

 

[DABANSHEE]

That's a gross generalisation Prodigy.

In North America Jewish incomes are almost double that of non-Jews, 16 of the 40 wealthiest Americans are Jews, 40% of Nobel prizewinners in science and economics are Jewish, 20% of professors at main universities are Jewish, as are 40% of partners in law firms in New York and Washington. Which is remarkable for a basically immigrant group.

There's no way the Jews could have progressed so far in just a few generations, if they were stubborn beyond reason.

The simple fact is that of the Jewish population that lived in what was to become occupied Europe at the outbreak of war, less than 100000 survived the holocaust. Many others managed to get out in the nick of time, but they also survived with not much more than the shirts on their backs. They had lost everything, including many of their relatives &amp; were desperate for any sort of security they could get. So many migrated to Israel. Most were not enthused by any sense of Zionist ideals. They just wanted security &amp; a chance to start afresh &amp; this was their opportunity. Here in the Hollyland they could have a new home in the sun funded by the American taxpayers &amp; the many support groups, on its own little block too. They didsn't care that a Palestinian family or two was dislocated to make room for them. Afterall they, the Jews had suffered worse than anyone &amp; the Palestinians will just have to make do like they did - so another little holocaust was in the making, created by the victims of the Holocaust (with a capital H) - Really it was Hitlers Leibensraum all over again.

But over time feelings of guilt crept in so the 'Israelis' then had to sell to themselves &amp; others those original Zionist ideas about how &quot;god promised us this land&quot;, &quot;its the promised land of the Jews&quot;, &quot;we were here first&quot; (can any contemporary Jew prove he/she is descended from the Hebrews of antiquity), &quot;we earned this by our suffereing in the holocaust&quot;, &quot;Jordan is Palestine&quot;, &quot;they (the Palestinians) lost it so god must want us to have it&quot;, &quot;A country without people, for people without a country&quot; (which negates the existence of Palestinians), &quot;giving in to the Palestinians is giving in to terrorism&quot; (even though many more Palestinians have been victims to Israeli terrorism than the number of Israelis that have been victims to Palestinian terrorism), &quot;We offer to share these land with them but they said no&quot; (what sort of deal is that, giving 50% of the country to the 20% of the population that were mainly immigrants &amp; letting the indigenous Palestinians who had been there since Roman times &amp; made up 3/4 of the population the other 50%? What if a bunch of foreigners decided to give half of the US to the 10% of the population made up of Latino immigrants, because god promised America to the Conquistadores?), &quot;we can't change history, generations have come 'n gone since 47&quot; (well a lot of generations came &amp; went between the start of the diasporia, in 70AD &amp; the inaugoration of Israel in 47), etc, etc - this list of Zionist rhetoric could go on all night.

This guilt thing is really clawing at Israel's pysch, which is influencing the majority of Israelis to come to terms with the Palestinians in a equatable fashion. Really the only resistence to the peace movement comes from the Orthadox Jews &amp; the 'Settlers' who have let themselves be conned by all this Zionist rhetoric. The US has also let itself be conned by all this silly Zionist rhetoric over the last 50 years, which is understandable seeing as Jews own quite a proportion of the US Media. Henc the US is the only country that continually &amp; unconditionally supports Israel (well things maybe starting to change in that regard) - look at that UN resolution that demanded that Israel must give all Palestinians a right to return, &amp; should return their properties too - the US was the only country in the world to vote against that resolution, other than Israel of course - have any of you noticed it seems all the most militent of the 'settlers' have American accents.

 

[Prodigy^]

sorry banshee but the jews who have replied showed me a bad side of them, unfortunately.

oh, and it's 'Lebensraum'....whatever it had to do with this