In your opinion. Most of the civilized world disagrees with you. So do most Americans.
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Why are republicans now intent on killing the Reconciliation bill?
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In your opinion. Most of the civilized world disagrees with you. So do most Americans.
I know it's difficult for self centered, greedy egomaniacs to comprehend that health care is essential to life, and I know you don't give a rat's ass about the rights of anyone other than yourself, but the Declaration of Independence enumirates "certain unalienable RIGHTS, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
The Preamble to our Constitution states its purpose:
We are not talking about affording luxuries like Xboxes and 3D TV sets. We are talking about ensuring the survival and well being of our children, those in the workforce and people who are too disabled or otherwise unable to afford baseic health care. Helping them to stay healthy and productive certainly goes to insure domestic tranquility and promoting the general welfare.
No. One is a system intended to distribute the costs of basic health care among all of our citizens, not just the privileged few who can afford medical care.
"Insurance," per se, is not "EVIL," but it is beyond stupid to allow the bloodsucking vampires and ghouls who inflate the cost of health insurance and health care by raiding the premiums paid by their customers to reward themselves with mega-buck salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes and prioritizing their glutony over the bare essentials of survival of other human beings.
There is no excuse for such inhumanity. :thumbsdown:
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They are doing it for political purposes. There is only one legitimate reason to oppose the reconciliation bill in the Senate: because it also includes student loan reform.
Most of the reconciliation bill deals with removing some of the most egregious backroom deals, such as the Cornhusker Kickback. They also redo a lot of the taxes so that they don't kick in until 2014.
HR3590 is becoming law tomorrow. The war is over. The Republicans can no longer stop health care reform, because the Senate bill passed on Christmas Eve with super-majority support is becoming law in less than 24 hours. That was what the House passed last night with their first and second votes. The third vote was to fix flaws in that legislation, and that third vote is what the Senate is working on.
The only real thing Republicans can do now is decide what that the final reform will look like. To that end, it's to their political advantage to obstruct as much as possible and prevent reconciliation from passing. That way they can campaign on the cornhusker kickback, ect. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do...and I think the American people will see right through it if they try to.
Note that I'm not saying they should vote FOR the reconciliation bill, but simply not do everything in their power to stop it. All that will do is ensure that Americans end up stuck with a worse overall bill. They've already lost the war, now it's time to decide how they will appear in defeat.
"Insurance," per se, is not "EVIL," but it is beyond stupid to allow the bloodsucking vampires and ghouls who inflate the cost of health insurance and health care by raiding the premiums paid by their customers to reward themselves with mega-buck salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes and prioritizing their glutony over the bare essentials of survival of other human beings.
There is no excuse for such inhumanity. :thumbsdown:
Yet all this has done is force all Americans to pay into those companies. So your desire to see all Americans have health insurance, at the cost of their free will, outweighs your hatred of corporations?
Everybody dies. There are not enough resources nor wealth in our current economic model, to provide full health care service to everyone. I don't care who is running the show. And sometimes we have to recognize when the government is not the best solution. Government is already broke trying to pay obligations for current entitlements, without taking on more expenditures.
"Insurance," per se, is not "EVIL," but it is beyond stupid to allow the bloodsucking vampires and ghouls who inflate the cost of health insurance and health care by raiding the premiums paid by their customers to reward themselves with mega-buck salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes and prioritizing their glutony over the bare essentials of survival of other human beings.
There is no excuse for such inhumanity. :thumbsdown:
Is it not also "beyond stupid" to believe that the government will do any different? Any better?
But regardless, you're demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of how health care prices work in the real world, and why things are as expensive as they are. But then again, you are who you are and I've already been given the boot here twice for arguing with you in the past 🙂 so I'll just leave it at this.
lupi
Lifer
I know it's difficult for self centered, greedy egomaniacs to comprehend that health care is essential to life, and I know you don't give a rat's ass about the rights of anyone other than yourself, but the Declaration of Independence enumirates "certain unalienable RIGHTS, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
The Preamble to our Constitution states its purpose:
We are not talking about affording luxuries like Xboxes and 3D TV sets. We are talking about ensuring the survival and well being of our children, those in the workforce and people who are too disabled or otherwise unable to afford baseic health care. Helping them to stay healthy and productive certainly goes to insure domestic tranquility and promoting the general welfare.
No. One is a system intended to distribute the costs of basic health care among all of our citizens, not just the privileged few who can afford medical care.
"Insurance," per se, is not "EVIL," but it is beyond stupid to allow the bloodsucking vampires and ghouls who inflate the cost of health insurance and health care by raiding the premiums paid by their customers to reward themselves with mega-buck salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes and prioritizing their glutony over the bare essentials of survival of other human beings.
There is no excuse for such inhumanity. :thumbsdown:
and yet how much did those members, several of whom were skilled slightly more at being a doctor than yourself, who created those documents direct the government to provide in this area?
That's still not an excuse for allowing a handful of greedy insurance execs to pay themselves more money than they can spend in their entire lives to squander on chateaus and yachts when doing so denies basic health care, including preventive care that would reduce overall healthcare costs, to thousands or millions of people would fall ill and/or die if they don't receive it.
And sometimes, we have to recognize that government of the people, by the people and for the people is EXACTLY the right solution to problems that affect all of the people. That's why we have government oversight and supervision of infrastructure, including roads, bridges, building codes, utilities, etc.
We have a health care crises for the same reason we have a financial crisis -- because, for far too long, government abandoned all oversight over big financial interests who plundered the life savings of working people, and we allowed the insurance industry to do the same thing without oversight to hold working Americans hostage to being gouged by their insurance policies because the threat if they didn't pay was to their very lives.
I see you failed arithmetic, too... Or was it reading? Or didn't you read that the CBO reports that the current bill, including reconciliation, will reduce the deficit?... Or did you just not notice?... Or did you even care? 😕
It would have been "beyond stupid" to believe that government will do any better while Republicans were in power and under the thumbs of their insurance and Wall Street overlords. That's why Americans vote for change.
It is way "beyond stupid" to believe that government will do any worse than leaving control of health insurance when we know how badly they've raped the rest of us for decades.
I understand quite well how health care prices work in the real world. What you demonstrate is is that you have forsaken your own basic humanity when you piss and moan that "everybody dies" and accept the idea it's OK for a few greedy vampires and ghouls to gorge themselves on the blood and lives of other American citizens and allow them to die.
IT IS NOT!
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
You tell em Harvey :thumbsup:
And what continues to baffle me is that the vast majority of those here who support the current for profit model, and scream "free trade", "no government intervention" etc... etc... are the most vunerable. They are one catastrophe from a medical bancruptcy and they just believe it can't happen to them.
They naively think bad things don't happen to good people, and when it does they try and explain it away with "bad lifestyle choices". They must be fatasses or drugies or chain smokers
And what continues to baffle me is that the vast majority of those here who support the current for profit model, and scream "free trade", "no government intervention" etc... etc... are the most vunerable. They are one catastrophe from a medical bancruptcy and they just believe it can't happen to them.
They naively think bad things don't happen to good people, and when it does they try and explain it away with "bad lifestyle choices". They must be fatasses or drugies or chain smokers
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
"Insurance," per se, is not "EVIL," but it is beyond stupid to allow the bloodsucking vampires and ghouls who inflate the cost of health insurance and health care by raiding the premiums paid by their customers to reward themselves with mega-buck salaries, bonuses and golden parachutes and prioritizing their glutony over the bare essentials of survival of other human beings.
There is no excuse for such inhumanity. :thumbsdown:
So where are the executive compensation restrictions in the health care legislation? Are there caps or not? I'm sure that since your pals turned over 30 million new customers to the "greedy" insurance companies, surely they would have put a stake through the heart of the "vampires," as you call them. Right?
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
I can't speak for others, but for me, I supported reform -- just not this turd that was passed. You just handed over 30 million new customers to the insurance companies, the same greedy insurance companies you, Harvey, and others of your ilk complained endlessly about. Explain this to me, please.
You asked the same question, earlier, and I answered it. Are you one of the children George W. Bush left behind? 😕
I said, previously, that I'm not happy about it. I blame that on those in Congress who opposed ANY change and their corporate overlords who succeeded in blocking the kind of health care reform we really need, but it's a start, and it can and should be improved.
Personally, I would prefer a single payer system. Every penny that now goes to executive bonuses and golden parachutes should instead be spent treating and curing patients. The current legislation, even without the reconciliation act, mandates that at least 85% of health insurance revenues must be applied to patient care. That's not as good as Medicare does, and it's certainly not enough, but it IS a start in the right direction.
The very lives and blood of American citizens should not be held hostage, the pockets of American citizens should not be picked, and the life savings of American citizens should not be private mining grounds for a few greedy execitove vampires and ghouls from the insurance companies.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
Nice try, but NO, I did not ask the same question earlier. Better read again!
Earlier I pointed out the fact about 30 million being pushed to insurance. You answered that you did not like it. Fair enough, but I did NOT ask about exec compensation limits earlier. I am now.
Here we go:
So I am assuming from the rest of your post that you would consider this an essential component, correct?
EDIT: Here is my earlier post:
No questions there.
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No, you should assume that you missed the rest of my post so again, it's my turn to quote:
Yes, answer is there.
JSt0rm
Lifer
GuitarDaddy
Lifer
Yes, it was such a gift to them that they have spent billions upon billions to try and defeat it. You think those 30mil new customers won't be using their bennies? You think immediately removing lifetime caps won't hurt the insurance co's?
You guys all now seem to be spouting "gift to the evil ins cos" and frankly it's about the most dumbass backwards argument possible. It's like when you tell a 10yo he can't have someting and he replies "I didn't want it anyway" When you guys lose you say look we won 🙄 If this bill was a handout to ins you would have been pimpin it to begin with
flavio
Diamond Member
They had healthcare. I was just reading about plants they used for healing in pamphlet I picked up hiking.
I think they had free healthcare for all even.
JSt0rm
Lifer
Starbuck1975
Lifer
Kind of like saving political face and passing health care reform at all costs, regardless of what the final legislation actually contains or the political shenanigans required to achieve that ends...we can always "fix" it later...we were only kidding when we promised transparency in government...the Democrats have made that abundantly clear.
her209
No Lifer
You have to wonder how much the stocks of health insurance companies would have gone up or down if the bill was defeated Sunday.
No painter crafted the Mona Lisa on his first try.
This HCR bill is just the beginning. There is more to come, trust me on that.
AzureNightmareX1
Member
The sad reality here is that the only place you are right is in your mind.
There is nothing that republicans can do? I guess you haven't heard that the vast majority of the states are moving to block that bill from becoming law in their state. Additionally the Supreme Court has the final say on this matter. They may yet still decide that this reform bill is unconstitutional and block its enforcement and implementation. This "war" is still far from over.
As frightening and dangerous as the health care reform bill is, I agree that it is just the beginning. What it is however, is not "the mona lisa of reform". It is a terrifying set of changes that will destroy the American dollar's value, socialize one of the last truly free democracies in the world, and eventually put every aspect of our life under the microscope to be watched by the careful eye of the federal government. I pray that the republicans, as much as I hate them, are able to restore the balance of power in Congress before this insanity goes too far. Pelosi, Obama and co. need to be stopped as soon as possible, before the monstrosity they conjured up in their minds has a chance to be completed by them.
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I love how the resident nutcases are trying to pretend there's this huge groundswell of opposition.
Wrong.
But nice try. Maybe if you believe it enough, it will happen right? Like the second coming. Oh.. oh wait, sorry.
flavio
Diamond Member
The bill isn't socialism, it will not destroy the dollar, and it does nothing to put every aspect of our life under the microscope.
Canada's healthcare is actually socialized to an extent and they are not under the microscope.
The republicans actually introduced a very similar bill awhile back.
http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2010/February/23/GOP-1993-health-reform-bill.aspx
But now they're all like "OMG the sky is falling!".
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