Why are regional airline pilots paid so poorly?

[apac]

Heard some story on the news this morning about the investigation into the Buffalo plane crash. They concluded that it was due to pilot fatigue and ignorance of policy. Blame was placed on the pilots for not getting enough sleep to work, and chatting in the cockpit under 10,000 feet (sterile cockpit rule).

Also mentioned but not touched on was the fact that the pilot made 24K/year and the co-pilot only 16K/year. WTF. The co-pilot of an airplane responsible for 49 people makes as much as a full time McDonalds employee? Man I'd feel like shit if I had that job, no wonder they don't care about coming in to work at 100%.

 

[waggy]

yeah i heard that and was shocked. $16k? wow

 

[Crono]

They must love to fly enough to take so low pay.
Actually, I got nothing.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Because we as the customers want to be able to fly for next to nothing. And the airlines are still in the red. Cuts have to come from somewhere.

 

[mb]

Must have been some nubs

Check out these commercial and airline pilot salaries *

American Airlines: 1st yr F/O: $31,080 and 10th yr Captain $123,420

Delta Airlines: 1st yr F/O: $50,400 and 10th yr Captain $204,636

UPS: 1st yr F/O: $26,004 and 10th yr Captain $200,508

Southwest: 1st yr F/O: $42,960 and 10th yr Captain $159,000

ATA: 1st yr F/O: $36,000 and 10th yr Captain $136,632

Airborne Express: 1st yr F/O $28,536 and 10th yr Captain $146,184

http://www.pea.com/imd/airline-pilot-salary.asp

http://www.payscale.com/resear...Flight_Engineer/Salary

 

[silverpig]

What really? I know a girl who's dad is a pilot for Air Canada. He's in the $150k range I think, and he can get more money flying for a US airline.

 

[trmiv]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_...000_a_year.html?page=1

Like many other pilots, Renslow sometimes worked a second job. He quit stocking groceries at a supermarket near Orlando about a year before the crash. Jonathan Skrodski, a produce clerk, said he often overheard Renslow talking about his love for flying and "I was very shocked. In my head, I was going, 'What the hell is this guy doing here?' "

I guess this was because it was such a small airline? Still, if I and 49 other people are putting my life in the hands of someone they better be getting paid well enough to not have to work a frigging second job stocking shelves at a grocery store.

 

[hiromizu]

They don't paid much until they start flying the big boys. I remember when I was training I had flight instructors that had been out of school for over 6 years making a measly 20k to rack up hours and would be making just as little had they moved on to smaller charter airlines but yes, once you reach your 40's and flying 737's you'll hit the 6 figure range.

 

[Pepsei]

they need the flight hours... so the regional carriers take advantage of that by giving shitty pay so that the pilots could get enough hours before the bigger carriers would even look at their resume.

 

[Codewiz]

Small plane and young pilots = start pay.

Pilots get paid big $$ once they have experience and fly the big planes.

 

[Svnla]

OP, you need to change the title to "regional" or "feeder" airline.

 

[PottedMeat]

Originally posted by: Svnla
OP, you need to change the title to "regional" or "feeder" airline.

Yep, I heard the same story. Regionals start with the same low pay as the big airlines, difference is regionals top out pretty low while the big ones go into 100K+.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Entry level pilot positions pay for shit. However, they all do it because the top end guys make the big bucks... at least that's how it was when they were growing up or in school. The problem is now that the top end ranks are being thinned so a lot of those big money jobs are no longer in passenger airlines. I've got a lot of friends who are pilots and they all tell me they want the same thing... a cushy cargo gig with Fed Ex or UPS.

 

[Zolty]

Because the advantage to taking that job on a Q400 is to get the turboprop hours required by larger airlines.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: silverpig
What really? I know a girl who's dad is a pilot for Air Canada. He's in the $150k range I think, and he can get more money flying for a US airline.

Which in American Dollars equals $26K

 

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: silverpig
What really? I know a girl who's dad is a pilot for Air Canada. He's in the $150k range I think, and he can get more money flying for a US airline.

Which in American Dollars equals $26K

*sigh*

One of the best ways to get into a good flying gig I've heard is to fly with the military first. If I could do it all over again, I'd probably go to the Royal Military College, train as a pilot, then spend 4 years flying the C-17s or whatever else I could get my hands on. Then, hop on over to Air Canada and you're in the money right off the bat.

 

[TangoJuliet]

The regionals generally start at a lower salary then when you progress to the larger planes/airlines you get a bump in salary. For example, Southwest requires that you have a minimum of 3,000 flight hours when applying for the job. Now, I don't know about you but on average to rent a plan it costs $150/hr so that would be around $450,000. Most pilots become flight instructors and get hired with a regional until they have x amount of hours to apply for the big boys.

Now, if you think the regionals are low paying you should also look at air traffic controllers. On average the vets make $100,000/yr whereas a new hire is making $18,500 to start $30,000 after the academy and maybe an increase to $50,000 after 3 years. I say maybe because you can be failed out at any point during training. You don't see a raise until you check out on 25% of the positions which can take anywhere from a year to 3 years.

All of that was imposed on the new controller workforce back in 2006 and the union and FAA have been at odds since. It is being worked on as I type as both sides have gone back to mediation on getting a new contract for the controllers.

Sure in this CJC case the pilot made $24,000 and the co-pilot $18,000 and they were responsible for about 50 people. Controllers are responsible for much more then that - for example LGA has 1400 daily operations a day. Say on average there are 100 people on each plane we are talking about 140,000 passengers/day that controllers are responsible for.

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Entry level pilot positions pay for shit. However, they all do it because the top end guys make the big bucks... at least that's how it was when they were growing up or in school. The problem is now that the top end ranks are being thinned so a lot of those big money jobs are no longer in passenger airlines. I've got a lot of friends who are pilots and they all tell me they want the same thing... a cushy cargo gig with Fed Ex or UPS.

No doubt. 200k to fly boxes around? Sweet!

 

[Gooberlx2]

My next door neighbor is a pilot. He spends a LOT of time "on call", where he's paid less than when he's flying. Still, he makes much more than 24K/year...but he's not just regional, and he still probably flies more than they did.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: silverpig
What really? I know a girl who's dad is a pilot for Air Canada. He's in the $150k range I think, and he can get more money flying for a US airline.

Which in American Dollars equals $26K

Did you just forget a digit? $150K CAD = ~$128K USD.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
The regionals generally start at a lower salary then when you progress to the larger planes/airlines you get a bump in salary. For example, Southwest requires that you have a minimum of 3,000 flight hours when applying for the job. Now, I don't know about you but on average to rent a plan it costs $150/hr so that would be around $450,000. Most pilots become flight instructors and get hired with a regional until they have x amount of hours to apply for the big boys.

Now, if you think the regionals are low paying you should also look at air traffic controllers. On average the vets make $100,000/yr whereas a new hire is making $18,500 to start $30,000 after the academy and maybe an increase to $50,000 after 3 years. I say maybe because you can be failed out at any point during training. You don't see a raise until you check out on 25% of the positions which can take anywhere from a year to 3 years.

All of that was imposed on the new controller workforce back in 2006 and the union and FAA have been at odds since. It is being worked on as I type as both sides have gone back to mediation on getting a new contract for the controllers.

Sure in this CJC case the pilot made $24,000 and the co-pilot $18,000 and they were responsible for about 50 people. Controllers are responsible for much more then that - for example LGA has 1400 daily operations a day. Say on average there are 100 people on each plane we are talking about 140,000 passengers/day that controllers are responsible for.

I think your opinion might be a little bit biased. 18k while you are in training is good. A lot of people have to pay to be trained. 30k after you graduate is not bad, especially considering that you still aren't a fully certified controller, and you rarely act outside of a team.

I'm not surprised to see this post from you...I've seen it a few times before.

 

[DainBramaged]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: silverpig
What really? I know a girl who's dad is a pilot for Air Canada. He's in the $150k range I think, and he can get more money flying for a US airline.

Which in American Dollars equals $26K

*sigh*

One of the best ways to get into a good flying gig I've heard is to fly with the military first. If I could do it all over again, I'd probably go to the Royal Military College, train as a pilot, then spend 4 years flying the C-17s or whatever else I could get my hands on. Then, hop on over to Air Canada and you're in the money right off the bat.

lol...sorry

 

[tk149]

Medical residents don't make much either...and you're already sick or injured when you go seen them...

 

[EarthwormJim]

I wish I was being payed while going through my training, i.e. College.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: silverpig
What really? I know a girl who's dad is a pilot for Air Canada. He's in the $150k range I think, and he can get more money flying for a US airline.

Which in American Dollars equals $26K

*sigh*

One of the best ways to get into a good flying gig I've heard is to fly with the military first. If I could do it all over again, I'd probably go to the Royal Military College, train as a pilot, then spend 4 years flying the C-17s or whatever else I could get my hands on. Then, hop on over to Air Canada and you're in the money right off the bat.

My GF's dad flew for the Navy for 4 years, and went to Pan Am out of the Navy and was flying the big boys until Pan Am tanked.