Why is it that some cards with PCI-express and AGP interface cost the same amout? even though they are the same card, but isn't PCI-Express faster than AGP? like the 6600GT PCI-Express cost around $200, 6600GT AGP cost $200 aswell. Shouldn't the PCI-Express cost more? If someone offer you a 6600gt PCI-express or AGP, shouldn't you pick the Express? I believe the only reason why AGP cost just as much is that the majority of people dont have Express slots on their motherboard, but still, PCI-express should cost a bit more.
Why are PCI-Express card and AGP cost about the same price?
- Thread starter Solodays
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YOyoYOhowsDAjello
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Actually depending on the card it seems like either AGP or PCI-e can be significantly different in price...
X800XL
PCI-e = about $280
AGP = about $330
6800gt
PCI-e = about $360
AGP = about $300
obviously not having to do with performance differences because as JBT mentioned, there is basically no difference.
X800XL
PCI-e = about $280
AGP = about $330
6800gt
PCI-e = about $360
AGP = about $300
obviously not having to do with performance differences because as JBT mentioned, there is basically no difference.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
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Current video cards are not limited by AGP yet really. In fact running an 8x AGP card in 4x mode gives less than 1% performance hit in most games and only around 10% difference in the latest ones.
This will change eventually though as card will need increasing speed, but right now cards aren't really limited by the AGP speed.
You're saying that video cards are not taking AGP's full protential?
You mean games right? instead of video card?
You mean games right? instead of video card?
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
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Right, the cards themselves are not limited by AGP yet. I mentioned the 4x example to show that they are barely limited by the 4x spec yet even.
Yeah, there is no real reason to upgrade to PCI-e yet for most people as there is pretty much no performance advantage. Futureproofing or SLI is the only reason to switch to PCI-e, especially if you recently dropped alot of cash on a new AGP video card.
There are benchmarks out there that will prove it. I'm too tired right now to go find them though.
There are benchmarks out there that will prove it. I'm too tired right now to go find them though.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
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I don't agree with the "futureproofing for SLI" statement, but I do agree that as time goes on AGP is going to die out and you'll have a lot more options down the road in PCI-e flavor.
Technically, but no cards today and for awhile will show it. The only real reason for such large amounts of bandwidth is to store textures on system RAM. But with the next gen video cards comming with 256MB of ram and even 512MB there really is no use. We are really trying to use as little as we can as even with those speeds system RAM is just to slow for gaming.
Megatomic
Lifer
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What's your point Solodays? I'm not really understanding what you're trying to get at. They've already stated that the same GPU is as fast on AGP8X as it is on PCI-e. They've also already stated that GPUs do not push the bandwidth of the AGP8X bus yet as proven by the fact that an AGP8X card runs as fast in an AGP4X slot as it does in an AGP8X slot.
If you want to go PCI-e, fine, go for it. If you have a newer AGP8X system and need a new video card, feel free to get an AGP8X card. Lots of us are doing it. My current system is going to last me through to spring 2006. ATI knows that there are gamers out there sticking to AGP systems, they've just released the X850XT PE in AGP8X format.
If you want to go PCI-e, fine, go for it. If you have a newer AGP8X system and need a new video card, feel free to get an AGP8X card. Lots of us are doing it. My current system is going to last me through to spring 2006. ATI knows that there are gamers out there sticking to AGP systems, they've just released the X850XT PE in AGP8X format.
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
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Ok... say you have a road with a speed limit of 1000 miles per hour.... is that better than a road with a limit of 500 miles per hour? Not really.... because you're not going to use it. Eventually we might have cars that will go faster than 500 miles per hour and then it will be a good idea to get some 1000mph roads. (This is a really dumb analogy but I just wanted to talk about it another way).
Unlike my car example, we will certainly need something faster than AGP someday, but right now there aren't and cards that are going to benefit from it.
If you're getting a new system, I think PCI-e is the way to go because companies recognize that we're going to need PCI-e eventually so they're moving over to the new technology and phasing out AGP. Right now there isn't any performance increase, but eventually there will be.
Does that answer your "has more limit" question?
Yes, PCIe has fewer limits, or a higher limit, than AGP. Game devs write for the LCD, so PCIe won't be exploited for a little while. For now, the bus seems to make no difference on performance. The main benefit of PCIe will be that it should allow game devs to use system memory as a slower, secondary storage. This should, in turn, allow for prettier games. But as we've still got a big mix of AGP, PCIe, bridged-AGP, and bridged-PCIe cards, we haven't yet seen PCIe in full effect.
nVidia's HyperMemory and ATI's TurboCache cards do show that PCIe offers decent bandwidth, and maybe the next generation of cards (I'm guessing they'll all be PCIe-native) will allow game devs to explore using PCIe more fully. But game devs will use it primarily for nicer effects, not more speed. Card makers use it primarily to save money (use cheaper system rather than pricier onboard memory).
nVidia's HyperMemory and ATI's TurboCache cards do show that PCIe offers decent bandwidth, and maybe the next generation of cards (I'm guessing they'll all be PCIe-native) will allow game devs to explore using PCIe more fully. But game devs will use it primarily for nicer effects, not more speed. Card makers use it primarily to save money (use cheaper system rather than pricier onboard memory).
yeah, that's what i'm trying to say. but why would they release video cards in pci-ex if there aren't any performance increase over agp?
If i'm gonna build a system, it's better to go with PCI-e even though it doesnt increased in performance?
If i'm gonna build a system, it's better to go with PCI-e even though it doesnt increased in performance?
YOyoYOhowsDAjello
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Megatomic
Lifer
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The only real reason to buy an AGP8X card is if you have a competent system already and want to boost your video power. For example, I have a s754 NF3-250Gb 3400+ computer. It is still a viable system and will be for some time so I bought an X800XL AGP8X card for it. But if I had an older NF2 or P4 computer that was having trouble in games I'd give serious thought to building an entirely new computer with a PCI-e graphics card.
Um, because (as I said) it offers greater and bidirectional bandwidth (making it practical to use system memory as video card memory), and ATI and NV's GPUs are all going to be PCIe-native from now on? You might want to read AT's PCIe article(s), probably in the Motherboard and Video Card sections, for a primer on PCIe.
Megatomic
Lifer
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Because I already have a pretty high end s754 Athlon 64 computer. The motherboard in my system has an AGP8X slot and no PCI-e slot. I'd have to spend a lot of money on an NF4 system to get any noticeable increase in performance over what I currently have. The decision to buy another AGP8X videocard was a no brainer in all actuality.
Megatomic
Lifer
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Solodays, I really don't think you are paying attention to what we've been telling you in this thread. There is NO magical performance delta to be had by using a PCI-e card over an AGP card, not at this time. Perhaps a few GPU families in the future but not now.
A PCI-e GF 6800GT = an AGP GF 6800GT
A PCI-e X800XL = an AGP X800XL
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