Why are graphic cards not getting cheaper?!

[tential]

And this is why I despise Intel but still use it in my build, cos Intel is just go-happy selling the smallest die at maximum prices... and AMD CPU are just fail.

You do realize you pay for more than just a die right? It cost Intel this thing called R&D spend... which is massive....

Lol you guys are funny.

 

[Arachnotronic]

And this is why I despise Intel but still use it in my build, cos Intel is just go-happy selling the smallest die at maximum prices... and AMD CPU are just fail.

You despise Intel for trying to maximize profit? :biggrin:

Guess what, that is literally what every publicly traded company on the planet is out to do. It's just Intel is actually good at its job.

They make the product that people are willing to buy because it delivers great performance. Why do you care about the die size?

 

[DustinBrowder]

Because there hasn't been any technological advancements in GPU for over 4 years! We are also stuck on 28nm technology for the past 4 years and in the way GPU's rely on smaller node in order to improve performance and/or cut power consumption we haven't had it.

Also at smaller node you do more on a smaller size, that means production costs decrease, sure at first it might be even more expensive until the process is mature and stable, but very soon smaller node pays off.

And again, with zero technological advancements, still stuck on 28nm, Nvidia getting more and more marketshare they are more and more acting like a monopoly and keeping prices high.

Just look at the GTX 960 2GB which released for $200, a useless 2GB turd that is barely mid level for $200, 4GB versions cost $30 or $40 more.

Even the latest Nvidia turd the GTX 950 is $160, with custom versions going for mostly $170 and $180. So you have a low end turd going for $160 in the minimum, that is Nvidia for you! And since those who buy Nvidia are actually mentally not with all the fibers in their brain they'll keep on buying these useless overprices turds!

Fortunately the wider market is smarter in general and has stopped buying graphic cards leading to record low sales, and again why would anyone buy GPU's in this market when its filled with overpriced turds that have the same performance as GPU's from 4 years ago?

So a combinations of zero technological advancement, stuck on 28nm and Nvidia being a garbage, lying, stealing, cheating, scamming company and releasing useless overpriced turd after another that their worshipers keep on buying and you still have $300 mid range GPU's being sold as "flagships"!

Just look at Nvidia with the GTX 980, they released the GTX 980 at $650 as the FAKE flagship product and they gave it in their behinds to all those who were foolish enough to buy a FAKE flagship. After they scammed the idiots out of their $650 for a second tier GPU, they released the REAL flagship the Titan X for $1000. All the Nvidia worshipers bought it as the next best things since sliced bread and then Nvidia roped them in their behinds as well by releasing the GTX 980ti which was actually mildly faster than the Titan X at $650.

Of course the GTX 980ti being $650 is a scam in the first place, flagship graphic cards have always been around $500, we've never really had overpriced turds until the first OVERPRICED TURD the GTX TITAN. That was the first overpriced turd at $1000.

 

[nitromullet]

During HD7970 generation I didn't care that much due to bitcoin mining but now that this perk is gone, I do care and pay attention.

The mining thing happened during the R9 290/X generation. The 7-series cards launched almost a year before that, and had already plummeted in price prior to the mining craze. AMD just launched the 7-series at a end of 2011 at a pretty high price because NVIDIA didn't have anything to challenge it for months. Nothing wrong with AMD taking advantage of their ability to launch before their competition.

Notice how when GTX970/980 came out, people justified 980's 60-68% premium over the 970 but today when GTX970 is still hovering at $290-300, the gamers buying now aren't willing to buy a 980 for $450-480, which is still a similar 55-60% premium.

Agreed that the GTX 980 was, and still is, a poor value. That being said, at launch the GTX 980 was the fastest single gpu card available. NV was just taking advantage of their ability to launch a card that AMD couldn't touch. NV did throw more cost conscious consumers a bone with the GTX 970. RAM fiasco aside, having owned two GTX 780's and R9 290's previously, I'm still pretty impressed with my 970.

This is the big difference between NV's userbase and the types of gamers who buy AMD -- if AMD releases a card that's overpriced/bad value, people won't buy AMD products. Hence why R9 290X/Fury/Fury X suffer. When NV releases overpriced cards like 770 4GB, 780, 780Ti, 980, its customer base laps them up.

They both make good cards, but NV is way better at marketing and shaping perception. They also put more money and effort into it. Case in point, NV created GeForce Experience, which not everyone likes, but is a first party quality application for the most part. AMD partnered with Raptr in an attempt to compete, and the end result was that AMD's Gaming Evolved app feels like spy/malware. I don't think it is actually malware, but it definitely does not look/feel like a premium first party product. I haven't owned an AMD card in a few months now, so I'm not sure if they're still using Raptr, but it was horrible the time I did try it.

I guess my point is that the cost of graphics cards has gone up all around, but I just don't feel that the blame lies with NV alone.

 

[ShintaiDK]

And this is why I despise Intel but still use it in my build, cos Intel is just go-happy selling the smallest die at maximum prices... and AMD CPU are just fail.

And should we compare GPU prices to other items that makes GPUs look insanely overpriced? Even AMD CPUs will look insanely overpriced if you start to compare in terms of $/mm2.

So lets see those 50-100$ Fury X and GTX980Ti cards first

You do realize you pay for more than just a die right? It cost Intel this thing called R&D spend... which is massive....

Lol you guys are funny.

Yep, people thinking R&D etc is free is just crazy.

 

[Black Octagon]

The mining thing happened during the R9 290/X generation. The 7-series cards launched almost a year before that, and had already plummeted in price prior to the mining craze. AMD just launched the 7-series at a end of 2011 at a pretty high price because NVIDIA didn't have anything to challenge it for months.

I agree that AMD took advantage of being first to market while they could, but Bitcoin was already a thing before the 7970 launched.

Heck, some sites (e.g., Wikileaks) had already started accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment/donations.

By March 2011, Bitcoin had already reached parity with the USD.

While the true craze indeed hit later, folks who got in on this during the early days had the most to gain.

http://historyofbitcoin.org

 

[Erenhardt]

GPUs are not getting cheaper because people pay more and more for them </thread>

 

[tential]

Yep, people thinking R&D etc is free is just crazy.

Intel is the company we should be mad at for overcharging us.
Because you know, a 2600k didn't last 4 years and still deliver 80-90% of the value of a high end processor today for gaming.

No GPU from either vendor can have that claim. In fact, intel has been so good that the statement "You're not CPU bottlenecked" is a regular thing to say in the vast majority of situations.

That's the company that's screwing us?

Heh, now if only AMD/Nvidia would screw us like that too and create GPUs with enough horsepower to last 4 generations easily and still deliver HIGH END performance.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Intel is the company we should be mad at for overcharging us.
Because you know, a 2600k didn't last 4 years and still deliver 80-90% of the value of a high end processor today for gaming.

No GPU from either vendor can have that claim. In fact, intel has been so good that the statement "You're not CPU bottlenecked" is a regular thing to say in the vast majority of situations.

That's the company that's screwing us?

Heh, now if only AMD/Nvidia would screw us like that too and create GPUs with enough horsepower to last 4 generations easily and still deliver HIGH END performance.

I have a feeling the root cause is a believe in "entitlement" by a tiny minority crowd.

 

[Sabrewings]

Yep, people thinking R&D etc is free is just crazy.

They're just going to get more and more mad like Dustin up there as Moore's Law runs into a wall or pays to jump over it. R&D isn't free, jumping down to new nodes costs and will continue to cost as we get smaller, the development costs of ever increasing silicon designs will increase, etc.

The actual production cost of the silicon die itself isn't that much. It's the army of engineers at the IP holder and the fab that made it that you have to pay.

Get used to it. The days of a $500 flagship card are gone. AMD tried to keep prices down to retain market share (despite their increasing costs, just like Nvidia's) and look where it got them. Almost shut out of the market, little R&D money to spend, and nothing short of grim financial outlook. If people want to continue plowing ahead with GPU power despite physics saying "whoa there buddy, you're pushing the limits" people are going to have to put their wallets where their mouths are.

BTW, Dustin, $650 now is $530 in 2005. Inflation is a bitch.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=650&year1=2015&year2=2005

 

[ShintaiDK]

They're just going to get more and more mad like Dustin up there as Moore's Law runs into a wall or pays to jump over it. R&D isn't free, jumping down to new nodes costs and will continue to cost as we get smaller, the development costs of ever increasing silicon designs will increase, etc.

Yep. I have a feeling people will be very very disappointed in 14/16nm GPUs. Both in cost and performance.

Lower volume also means higher cost per product in an industry where cost only goes up in a rapid pace. In the old days the constant volume increase was an offset to this.

This is also why the ROI will kill the discrete GPU.

 

[Sabrewings]

Lower volume also means higher cost per product in an industry where cost only goes up in a rapid pace. In the old days the constant volume increase was an offset to this.

Exactly. The most telling saying over on car forums I've been a part of and among my car friends is "You have to pay to play."

That's going to be more and more apparent in PC gaming over the next decade. The free lunch for AMD and Nvidia of low end high volume graphics cards are over. They'll see decent volume on the next node at first since it'll be quite the performance jump, but that will be quite temporary. In general, we're looking at higher prices to compensate their low volumes and drive along advancement at a decent pace. I would not be shocked to see consumer flagships around $1000 and the halo cards around $1500-2000 by 2020.

 

[TeknoBug]

Actually graphics cards are getting cheaper, a little. Compare the opening price of an 8800GT to today's GTX970, 970 is cheaper.

However it seems Nvidia is practicing some shoddy business methods lately.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Exactly. The most telling saying over on car forums I've been a part of and among my car friends is "You have to pay to play."

That's going to be more and more apparent in PC gaming over the next decade. The free lunch for AMD and Nvidia of low end high volume graphics cards are over. They'll see decent volume on the next node at first since it'll be quite the performance jump, but that will be quite temporary. In general, we're looking at higher prices to compensate their low volumes and drive along advancement at a decent pace. I would not be shocked to see consumer flagships around $1000 and the halo cards around $1500-2000 by 2020.

Yep. Its just a matter of when the market bends.

That consoles is so weak as they are is also pulling it down. IGP gaming is now a reality for the masses. And this will continue for the next 5 years+. And the discrete GPU cant survive it.

nVidia however showed they can do this for the time being, selling high end GPUs in large volume. AMD however isnt. But it is still the pee in the pants solution because its unsustainable. I would be very surprised if we see any GPUs past 14/16nm. The ROI is gone.

HPC market is already turning towards Intel.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Actually graphics cards are getting cheaper, a little. Compare the opening price of an 8800GT to today's GTX970, 970 is cheaper.

The 8800GT was 200-250$ and more comparable to the GTX980.

 

[IEC]

Yep. Its just a matter of when the market bends.

That consoles is so weak as they are is also pulling it down. IGP gaming is now a reality for the masses. And this will continue for the next 5 years+. And the discrete GPU cant survive it.

nVidia however showed they can do this for the time being, selling high end GPUs in large volume. AMD however isnt. But it is still the pee in the pants solution because its unsustainable. I would be very surprised if we see any GPUs past 14/16nm. The ROI is gone.

HPC market is already turning towards Intel.

No matter what you say about IGP gaming it is NOT a reality for the masses.

I absolutely cannot stand my Intel HD 5500. It is NOT a substitute for even a low end discrete chip. And this is running it minimum settings, 1280x720.

 

[nitromullet]

I agree that AMD took advantage of being first to market while they could, but Bitcoin was already a thing before the 7970 launched.

Heck, some sites (e.g., Wikileaks) had already started accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment/donations.

By March 2011, Bitcoin had already reached parity with the USD.

While the true craze indeed hit later, folks who got in on this during the early days had the most to gain.

http://historyofbitcoin.org

Yeah, but we weren't referring to the existence of Bitcoin, we were talking about the mining craze that drove Radeon card prices through the roof which happened towards the end of 2013.

Edit: Although, my timeline for the card launches was a year off. The 7-series launched in March 2011 and the R9 2xx in Nov 2013. Doesn't look like much happened in the way of launches from NVIDIA and AMD in 2012, but the 7990 and GTX 690.

 

[SPBHM]

The 8800GT was 200-250$ and more comparable to the GTX980.

512MB was $250 I think, but that's really weird to look back at it.... the 8800GT was an excellent card at the time and it was priced more like GTX 960 which is half a 980...

the 8800GT was close to the best possible card at the time, it would be like being close to a 980 TI but sold for $250...

 

[Black Octagon]

512MB was $250 I think, but that's really weird to look back at it.... the 8800GT was an excellent card at the time and it was priced more like GTX 960 which is half a 980...



the 8800GT was close to the best possible card at the time, it would be like being close to a 980 TI but sold for $250...

Just remember wIth comparisons like this that the 8800GT launched in 2007, when the U.S. Dollar was worth more. Adjusting for inflation, $250 in 2007 is equivalent to nearly $290 in 2025, I.e., About 15% more.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

 

[Zodiark1593]

Yep. Its just a matter of when the market bends.

That consoles is so weak as they are is also pulling it down. IGP gaming is now a reality for the masses. And this will continue for the next 5 years+. And the discrete GPU cant survive it.

nVidia however showed they can do this for the time being, selling high end GPUs in large volume. AMD however isnt. But it is still the pee in the pants solution because its unsustainable. I would be very surprised if we see any GPUs past 14/16nm. The ROI is gone.

HPC market is already turning towards Intel.

You can only dedicate so much die to a gpu in an soc config. The new concoles are probably straddling that limit.

Gaming aside, video cards are a cheap way to provide massive amounts of raw compute (getting 2 Tflops of compute from cpus is obscenely expensive vs one gtx 960). Gaming merely happens to require such, but there are many professional applications that require that sort of compute as well.

I don't see the death of the dGPU, but at worst, gamers may need to buy professional priced cards some 5 years later. Or perhaps, if the dGPU does die, PC gaming becomes hugely expensive as we'll each need our own server farms with many SOCs to run the latest games at maximum settings. Instead of a video card, we'd have to buy some server blades instead.

 

[TeknoBug]

The 8800GT was 200-250$ and more comparable to the GTX980.

Really? I paid almost $500 for the 8800GT when it came out.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Really? I paid almost $500 for the 8800GT when it came out.

I got a 8800GT too and didnt pay anything near that.

Sure you didnt buy a GTX or GTS?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2365/3

 

[SPBHM]

Just remember wIth comparisons like this that the 8800GT launched in 2007, when the U.S. Dollar was worth more. Adjusting for inflation, $250 in 2007 is equivalent to nearly $290 in 2025, I.e., About 15% more.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

true, but not enough to change how much better the 8800GT launch was than what we currently have

Really? I paid almost $500 for the 8800GT when it came out.

maybe you got a SLI?

the launch price was 199 for the 256MB version and 250 for the 512MB one, or maybe you are thinking about the 8800GTX?

 

[Samwell]

nVidia however showed they can do this for the time being, selling high end GPUs in large volume. AMD however isnt. But it is still the pee in the pants solution because its unsustainable. I would be very surprised if we see any GPUs past 14/16nm. The ROI is gone.

You should really inform the us government about this. They don't have your information and are really believing that Nv will give them an 10nm supercomputer in 2018.

 

[boozzer]

512MB was $250 I think, but that's really weird to look back at it.... the 8800GT was an excellent card at the time and it was priced more like GTX 960 which is half a 980...

the 8800GT was close to the best possible card at the time, it would be like being close to a 980 TI but sold for $250...

8800gt the same as 980 ti D:

8800gt = 980. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: