why are Geforce GTX 970 reference cards so hard to find?

[QueBert]

While not easy easy, I'm finding the 980's but they're way out of my price range. I know Asus and MSI make some killer cards with even better cooling solutions, but for my build I'm looking for 2 cards with the stupid glowing green Nvidia logo to go with the even more stupid glowing Nvidia SLI bridge. So far the only places I'm seeing 970 references are Best Buy and Ebay. Prices are the same for both. Is there somewhere else I should be looking? I know EVGA always use to released reference cards, but I can't find one listed on their page. Who else releases reference cards? the model # on Best Buy isn't turning up crap on Google as far as places selling them.

 

[digitaldurandal]

I believe on Best Buy has them and no other retailer.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia-...lack/9855169.p?id=1219441201895&skuId=9855169

 

[VirtualLarry]

AFAIK, the ONLY source for "reference" GTX970 cards, IS BestBuy. They are sold direct from NV, or their mfg'ing partner (PNY?).

 

[RadiclDreamer]

AFAIK, the ONLY source for "reference" GTX970 cards, IS BestBuy. They are sold direct from NV, or their mfg'ing partner (PNY?).

I've heard it was PNY as well.

 

[n0x1ous]

Yes its PNY - who also makes all the Quadro cards

 

[Rvenger]

Manli makes the cards for Nvidia, not PNY. PNY uses Palit and probably many other AIB.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...e-gtx-970-nvidia-970-cooler-edition-review/2/



PNY 780ti is the Palit Jetstream
http://www.palit.biz/palit/vgapro.php?id=2240
https://www.pny.com/GTX_780_Ti_3072MB_OC_PCIe?sku=VCGGTX780T3XPB-OC

 

[RussianSensation]

I wouldn't bother. Grab 2x MSI Gaming 970s. We have a user on our boards with 2 of those on a cramped micro-ATX mobo similar to this one and they run cool and quiet, while still able to overclock past 1.4Ghz. Considering the price of reference 970s on BestBuy + tax, and the horrendous PNY blower cards that are loud and thermal throttle, open air cooled after-market 970s are better for SLI imo.

 

[lavaheadache]

Reason being is that there is officially no reference design 970. I'm not saing there aren't 970's that mimic the reference 980, cause there are, but Nvidia openly stated there was no official reference 970 design.

 

[ocre]

Reason being is that there is officially no reference design 970. I'm not saing there aren't 970's that mimic the reference 980, cause there are, but Nvidia openly stated there was no official reference 970 design.

At launch, nvidia did say something like that.

But later, they released the nvidia branded 970. I asked nvidia tech support and they told me it is their 970 reference. Its the card the nvidia website shows when you look up the gtx970. It is the specs, the pictures, the reference 970.

There are very few places to get the 970 reference/ 970 branded card. Bestbuy, where I got mine, but there was also a ocuk gtx970 card. They are the same and supposedly made with the highest quality components.

It is a very nice card, but there are cheaper models for sure.

See,
Don't be fooled by the blower, the best buy 970 has great thermals, overclocking, and the actual TDP nvidia list on their website for the 970.

There are reviews and this model has the lowest consumption out of all of them. The vendor, non reference models use custom bios settings and raise the TDP. There is a huge variance when it comes to 970 models. I seen people try to use reviews of some of these custom vendor cards and claim that the 970 TDP nvidia reports on their website is just a huge lie. But the reference 970 has very impressive power consumption, it is the card they refer to and has a very low TDP. But don't take my word on it, check out the reviews. http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-gtx-970-nvidia-970-cooler-edition-review/20/

I would say the reference 970 is really a nice card. The Titan style cooler is capable of cooling cards with much higher TDP, it does a wonderful job on the 970. There are people who are against blowers but it is cool and quiet on the 970 reference. It has very impressive thermal and noise, especially in gaming. Check out the review I linked.

I have also seen really great overclocking on these reference cards. I was able to run mine boost locked at just over 1500mhz without touching the voltage.
And this wasnt rare. I talked to several people with overclocks of ~1500mhz. This is with the stock bios, just push up the power limit and temp threshold. Then push up the boost clocks.
I was boost locked at just over 1500mhz and did not notice any more noise. I have never had any card like that. Usually overclocking, you have to deal with louder noise and cranking up fans. My 970 reference, I left the fan on auto. Just set it and forget it. In those things, it was really something else. It ran those high clocks no problem, it seemed like it was just running stock speeds. Just quiet and nice.

Anyway, the issue with the 970 reference is its price. I had bestbuy rewards which cut the price down, but I knew which 970 I wanted and that was the on I was gonna get. I wanted the Titan cooler. And for the gtx970, it is pretty amassing.......for a blower.

I now have the 980 and the Titan blower is decent enough. I can get ~1500mhz boost on it as well. But, the 970 was 1515mhz (I think) and the 980 will dip just below 1500mhz. It bounces about 50mhz. I still leave the fan on auto but its having to work a little harder. The temps will go towards 83c and the fans speed up. It is not loud but it is not like the 970. Its has to work a little harder. I would say it is still perfectly fine for the 980, it is just right for it. but that blower is more than enough for the 970, it cools it with ease.

I do like the blower though. I think it is great for multi card setups but it is also nice having all the heat blown out of the case.
I think most 970s perform pretty similar. I really liked the solid feel of the reference but since it goes in your case, it doesn't matter all that much. I just wanted to say, as a person who owned one, the 970 reference is a really nice card. It may or may not be worth the extra cash. Any 970 will do, but it is all in what you want....

 

[RussianSensation]

But don't take my word on it, check out the reviews. http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...-gtx-970-nvidia-970-cooler-edition-review/20/.

From that review:

"The bulk of the main audience will be better served buying something like the MSI GTX970 Gaming Edition, which is not only clocked higher, but runs cooler and makes even less noise. It is also £30 cheaper at Overclockers UK." Right now MSI Gaming 970 costs $320 on Newegg which is way less than the reference BestBuy 970 that is $380+tax.

As I have been saying for years - blowers are outdated, inferior cooling tech that keeps being promoted because back in the days it was the superior cooling solution. Today, it isn't and generation after generation professional reviews all show that blowers are inferior to the best open-air after-market solutions in terms of temperatures, noise levels and especially when it comes to maintaining good noise levels and temps while overclocking.

In a well ventilated modern case, with proper CPU heatsink/AIO CLC exhaust, you do not need blowers for GTX970/980 style GPUs.

Because open-air cooled after-market heatsinks have lower temperatures, you have a lot more wiggle room to set up a custom fan curve in MSI after-burner because you have more thermal headroom.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Used to be big on blowers myself.Cards like my old TF3 7850 and this Strix 970 have pretty much made me NOT want a blower now.My last blower was a EVGA 670 and that thing simply sucked for cooling while making all kinds of noise.Kept throttling with it as well with upper 70's all while the fan was maxed out.:|

I wouldn't say no to a free Titan X if one was given to me,but i hope that beast gets proper cooling soon too!.:biggrin:

 

[RussianSensation]

Used to be big on blowers myself.Cards like my old TF3 7850 and this Strix 970 have pretty much made me NOT want a blower now.My last blower was a EVGA 670 and that thing simply sucked for cooling while making all kinds of noise.Kept throttling with it as well with upper 70's all while the fan was maxed out.:|

That's blowers for you right there! The blower myth as I call it has persisted for so long and did so much damage, even today it rears its ugly head. Ironically, blowers actually encourage OEMs to ship crappy cases with poor airflow. By NV/ATI promoting blowers for years and years, they made many PC gamers believe that blowers are required or are a necessary evil.

If we were to take a modern case and throw a blower against a good after-market open air cooler, it's not even close!

All blowers

vs.

A power hungry GPU with a good after-market open air cooler

The best blower ever made - jet engine under load!
http://www.computerbase.de/videos/2015-03/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-x-lautstaerke/

Unfortunately, PC gamers keep buying blowers and GPU makers keep making them which means OEMs keep skimping on upgrading to modern well-ventilated cases. The irony is that the blower design dominated the GPU industry for years and years but it's really appropriate in very niche cases such as Tri or Quad-SLI/CF situations.

And once we get to overclocked states, blowers completely fall apart as they are simply unable to maintain good temperatures at quiet noise levels on 225W+ GPUs. Despite all the hard data, somehow a lot of PC gamers still think blowers are better.

 

[Kenmitch]

The Best Buy 970 is pricey.

Hunting down a 10% off movers coupon from the post office or eBay makes it competitive with other offerings. Living in CA so taxed pretty much everywhere these days. Should be able to find a couple for $3-4 each or less.

 

[destrekor]

The Best Buy 970 is pricey.

Hunting down a 10% off movers coupon from the post office or eBay makes it competitive with other offerings. Living in CA so taxed pretty much everywhere these days. Should be able to find a couple for $3-4 each or less.

Don't bother with eBay, you shouldn't pay a dime.

Go to your nearest Post Office, and request a movers pack. It should have a 10% BB coupon. If it does not, go to another Post Office and request the pack.

No hoops to jump through or anything, just walk in, request, walk out with it in hand.


BTW, it has historically been Foxconn who has manufactured the Nvidia-brand cards available at Best Buy, that was basically the business arrangement. I don't think they wish to source from their AIB partners directly, that would cause conflict unless they rotated all the time.

 

[skipsneeky2]

And once we get to overclocked states, blowers completely fall apart as they are simply unable to maintain good temperatures at quiet noise levels on 225W+ GPUs. Despite all the hard data, somehow a lot of PC gamers still think blowers are better.

That is true,i had a short experience with a reference 7970 shortly after release and well it overclocked like a beast but noise and temps really were something lackluster about the experience.The 670 simply had a craptastic heatsink that just wasn't up to the job of cooling.

Always ran with blowers in the past even with a good case believing the air being blown out the case was the better option but these days i know proper case air flow really makes all the difference.

 

[BroHamBone]

Asus is introducing their now "970 turbo"...blower model

http://pcdiy.asus.com/2015/04/asus-turbo-gtx-970-in-white-teaser/

 

[skipsneeky2]

Asus is introducing their now "970 turbo"...blower model

http://pcdiy.asus.com/2015/04/asus-turbo-gtx-970-in-white-teaser/

Maybe a good card for those who have a white case?Love Asus and what they do.Hopefully for those seeking blowers,this one delivers were others have failed.

 

[ocre]

From that review:

"The bulk of the main audience will be better served buying something like the MSI GTX970 Gaming Edition, which is not only clocked higher, but runs cooler and makes even less noise. It is also £30 cheaper at Overclockers UK." Right now MSI Gaming 970 costs $320 on Newegg which is way less than the reference BestBuy 970 that is $380+tax.

It also uses a lot more power. They have custom Bios settings that blow right past the reference 970 TDP.

As I have been saying for years - blowers are outdated, inferior cooling tech that keeps being promoted because back in the days it was the superior cooling solution. Today, it isn't and generation after generation professional reviews all show that blowers are inferior to the best open-air after-market solutions in terms of temperatures, noise levels and especially when it comes to maintaining good noise levels and temps while overclocking.

The MSI Gaming is a great option, there is no doubt about it. It is cool and quiet and i am really glad you used that as your "proof" that blowers are so terrible.

I guess you didnt see this or worse.......

Yeah, 1 dB louder than the MSI gaming. Oh my!!!!
Blowers are so terrible, you say. But obviously the reference 970 does a very good job here.
Just because the MSI gaming is amassing, it doesnt make the 970 reference complete trash or "outdated tech" that just needs to go away. The titan style blower works fine on the 970 reference.

I have already stated my opinion on it. As a person who actually owned the card, I have first hand knowledge. But you dont have to take my word on it. This is straight from the same review.

The cooler is very quiet. It never has to work too hard thanks to the cool running Maxwell architecture. You can barely hear the card when it is running, which is welcomed.

I experienced the same thing. The 970 reference ran quiet and did a great job. Trying to make the blower an issue on this card.....well it is really bizarre.

The card looks great and feels very very solid (perhaps it is the back plate). The blower is quiet and looks great. This is not the issue with this card. Actually, the titan style cooler is one of the main attractions to it. No matter how hard you put an effort to spin it, the blower isnt a drawback at all.
The only bad thing about the 970 reference is the price. You can get cheaper aftermarket 970s, cards that perform great. There are many options, cards with high clocks right out of the box. And I am not denying that at all. I am not denying that there are aftermarket coolers that do a wonderful jobs at cooling. That doesnt make the blower on the reference 970 terrible, I have had many GPUs and I found it to be very pleasant.

With so many options, the reference 970 is an expensive one. But out of all the 970s, that is the gtx 970 i wanted. And that is what i suggest to anyone.

So to the OP,
Get what you want and what will make you happy. There will always be haters and people that will push what they think on you.
But do your own research and buy what you want to buy.

 

[RussianSensation]

I guess you didnt see this or worse.......

Yeah, 1 dB louder than the MSI gaming. Oh my!!!!
Blowers are so terrible, you say. But obviously the reference 970 does a very good job here.

That's just 1 review but reviews around the net show that cards like MSI Gaming or Asus Strix are way quieter than the reference GTX970/980 blower cards. Secondly, in that review the reference 970 runs 9C higher and that's just at stock speeds.

Are you going to keep denying that blowers suck even when facts are presented to you?

All those cards running 80C+ = blowers

Do you not realize that if one NV GPU runs at 60-65C and the other at 75-80C, you can set up a custom fan curve with the former and lower your noise levels even more!

The crazy part is you completely ignored that after-market 970/980 cards turn off the fans at < 65C in 2D and low 3D workloads OR the part where in overclocked states, blowers are garbage.

Idle
MSI Gaming 970 = 27.5 dBA
Asus Strix 970 = 27.5 dBA
GTX980 blower reference = 30 dBA

Load in a Fractal Design R4 (a case for quiet PC computing)
Asus Strix 970 = 34 dBA @ 67C
MSI Gaming 970 = 37 dBA @ 68C
Gigabyte G1 970 Gaming = 42 dBA
Nvidia reference GTX980 max power limit = 50 dBA @ 83C

http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-test-roundup-vergleich/4/

This isn't the only review in the world that has corroborated that blowers are inferior technology, even for SLI/CF.

"We found that with the default settings on GeForce GTX 980 SLI the lowest clock rate it hit while in-game was 1126MHz. That clock speed is actually below the boost clock of 1216MHz for GTX 980. This is the first time we've seen the real-time in-game clock speed clock throttle below the boost clock in SLI in games. It seems GTX 980 SLI is clock throttling in SLI on reference video cards. This is something we did NOT expect, but it is happening with reference cards. This begs the question which we will have to answer another day, "Will this happen with custom cooled video cards?"

We noticed that when the GPUs would hit 80c the thermal throttling in SLI would occur and drop the clock speed from the boost clock. We know that it is strictly temperature that is causing this clock throttling in SLI because we also tried a test by just raising the fans to 100% fan speed. When we did this the in-game clock frequency jumped to 1266MHz consistently without dropping." ~ HardOCP

And this is the saddest part about the Blower Myth. No matter the facts, no matter the number of professional reviews over the years, PC gamers continue and will continue denying that blowers are outdated and inferior cooling technology like horizontal heatsink designs for CPUs became outdated a long time ago.

But I guess if blowers were so advanced and such good cooling tech, the world's fastest GTX980 would use one, right?! Nope. Even with a 1431mhz Turbo Boost, the Asus GTX980 20th Anniversary edition still runs cooler & quieter than the Titan blower GTX980!

DirectCU II with 0dB fan technology: Let you enjoy games in complete silence, and performs 15% cooler with 3X quieter than reference.
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GOLD20THGTX980P4GD5/

Even W1zzard was frustrated at how much the Titan X's blower (the best blower in the world) held back the videocard:

"Our GPU overclock does not translate into that much additional real-life performance because the card's power limit and temperature limit (84°C) hold it back; the card reaches 84°C and NVIDIA Boost will dial down the clocks, down to 1000 MHz if it has to, which nullifies some of the potential performance gains from the manual overclock. The same happens with power; the power limit, once reached, reduces the boot and, thus, performance." ~ TPU

You seem to be very upset that I am just telling the truth about blowers and their inherent limitations; that I am dispelling the blower myth that has persisted for decades. The fact of the matter is for decades blowers have been greatly over-hyped. In a well ventilated modern case outside of very niche Tri- and Quad-SLI/CF setups, open air cooled GPU designs result in a quieter, cooler and better overclocking systems, even if the side effect is a slight 4-5C impact to your CPU temperatures (this is not a big deal because a solid after-market cooler or an AIO CLC can easily address this impact).

 

[skipsneeky2]

DirectCU II with 0dB fan technology: Let you enjoy games in complete silence, and performs 15% cooler with 3X quieter than reference.
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GOLD20THGTX980P4GD5/

This was a selling point for me with my Strix,those load temps hitting 70cel are spot on for my card as well with bios control.Fan curve of 45% or 1300rpm i top out about 63cel depending on ambient.

Asus really nailed it with this card i think.More reviews then not made it sound like it ran really warm compared to G1 Gaming but there is next to no noise from this thing.

 

[RussianSensation]

This was a selling point for me with my Strix,those load temps hitting 70cel are spot on for my card as well with bios control.Fan curve of 45% or 1300rpm i top out about 63cel depending on ambient.

Asus really nailed it with this card i think.More reviews then not made it sound like it ran really warm compared to G1 Gaming but there is next to no noise from this thing.

Ya and now imagine having 2 of those cards in SLI where they can turn the fans off completely in all desktop situations and for indie gaming or light/older games 3D gaming with VSync.

But let's say the PC gamer doesn't ever overclock. Once again after-market open air cards come out on top - Zotac AMP! GTX970 with a 1380mhz warrantied Boost Clock. That's a 17% overclock from the blower GTX970 1178mhz.

 

[skipsneeky2]

But let's say the PC gamer doesn't ever overclock. Once again after-market open air cards come out on top - Zotac AMP! GTX970 with a 1380mhz warrantied Boost Clock. That's a 17% overclock from the blower GTX970 1178mhz.

I think the $342 Strix is a better deal even over that Zotac,i hit 1354 often enough on moderate heavy loads,full load about 1329.Trust me your not missing much for the overall cheaper price.

 

[ocre]

That's just 1 review but reviews around the net show that cards like MSI Gaming or Asus Strix are way quieter than the reference GTX970/980 blower cards. Secondly, in that review the reference 970 runs 9C higher and that's just at stock speeds.

Are you going to keep denying that blowers suck even when facts are presented to you?

All those cards running 80C+ = blowers

Do you not realize that if one NV GPU runs at 60-65C and the other at 75-80C, you can set up a custom fan curve with the former and lower your noise levels even more!

The crazy part is you completely ignored that after-market 970/980 cards turn off the fans at < 65C in 2D and low 3D workloads OR the part where in overclocked states, blowers are garbage.

Idle
MSI Gaming 970 = 27.5 dBA
Asus Strix 970 = 27.5 dBA
GTX980 blower reference = 30 dBA

Load in a Fractal Design R4 (a case for quiet PC computing)
Asus Strix 970 = 34 dBA @ 67C
MSI Gaming 970 = 37 dBA @ 68C
Gigabyte G1 970 Gaming = 42 dBA
Nvidia reference GTX980 max power limit = 50 dBA @ 83C

http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-test-roundup-vergleich/4/

This isn't the only review in the world that has corroborated that blowers are inferior technology, even for SLI/CF.

"We found that with the default settings on GeForce GTX 980 SLI the lowest clock rate it hit while in-game was 1126MHz. That clock speed is actually below the boost clock of 1216MHz for GTX 980. This is the first time we've seen the real-time in-game clock speed clock throttle below the boost clock in SLI in games. It seems GTX 980 SLI is clock throttling in SLI on reference video cards. This is something we did NOT expect, but it is happening with reference cards. This begs the question which we will have to answer another day, "Will this happen with custom cooled video cards?"

We noticed that when the GPUs would hit 80c the thermal throttling in SLI would occur and drop the clock speed from the boost clock. We know that it is strictly temperature that is causing this clock throttling in SLI because we also tried a test by just raising the fans to 100% fan speed. When we did this the in-game clock frequency jumped to 1266MHz consistently without dropping." ~ HardOCP

And this is the saddest part about the Blower Myth. No matter the facts, no matter the number of professional reviews over the years, PC gamers continue and will continue denying that blowers are outdated and inferior cooling technology like horizontal heatsink designs for CPUs became outdated a long time ago.

But I guess if blowers were so advanced and such good cooling tech, the world's fastest GTX980 would use one, right?! Nope. Even with a 1431mhz Turbo Boost, the Asus GTX980 20th Anniversary edition still runs cooler & quieter than the Titan blower GTX980!

DirectCU II with 0dB fan technology: Let you enjoy games in complete silence, and performs 15% cooler with 3X quieter than reference.
http://www.asus.com/Graphics_Cards/GOLD20THGTX980P4GD5/

Even W1zzard was frustrated at how much the Titan X's blower (the best blower in the world) held back the videocard:

"Our GPU overclock does not translate into that much additional real-life performance because the card's power limit and temperature limit (84°C) hold it back; the card reaches 84°C and NVIDIA Boost will dial down the clocks, down to 1000 MHz if it has to, which nullifies some of the potential performance gains from the manual overclock. The same happens with power; the power limit, once reached, reduces the boot and, thus, performance." ~ TPU

You seem to be very upset that I am just telling the truth about blowers and their inherent limitations; that I am dispelling the blower myth that has persisted for decades. The fact of the matter is for decades blowers have been greatly over-hyped. In a well ventilated modern case outside of very niche Tri- and Quad-SLI/CF setups, open air cooled GPU designs result in a quieter, cooler and better overclocking systems, even if the side effect is a slight 4-5C impact to your CPU temperatures (this is not a big deal because a solid after-market cooler or an AIO CLC can easily address this impact).

Wow, you are all over the place.
This isn't a discussion about the Titan x or the gtx980. I never said that blowers are advanced awesome tech. You just keep spouting out nonsense cause the last thing in the world I am is upset.

Like I said, you have to try real hard to make the 970 reference blower a terrible thing. Now here you are, quoting Titan x reviews and 980sli. I am starting to think you don't even know what the thread is about.

Believe it or not, people do exist that aren't stuck thinking extremes. By taking this position you have, this extreme polarization, you have limited yourself. So now you just can't understand what I am saying.

Your post is telling, you don't really understand. What you think of as the PC market is just a small fraction in reality. But I am not gonna let you drag me further down this off topic discussion.

So the topic is the 970 reference with the Titan style blower. It does a perfectly fine job of cooling this chip. Of course there are aftermarket custom coolers that are amassing but the 970 reference is so quiet you can't hear it running. The temps are fine, they are not an issue. The Titan blower does a decent job on such a low TDP chip. It looks great and does its job well.

The crazy thing is that when I say that, you are hearing " blowers are the bestest ever". I really can't help you with that.

But what I will say is that blowers aren't automatically terrible or useless. There are plenty of cards out there that struggle with blowers, the 970 reference is not one of them. It doesn't throttle and it isn't loud at all. This thread happens to be about the 970 reference and I think you should stop your off topic blower rants now.

 

[RussianSensation]

^ Looks like it's you who didn't read my post at all and isn't getting the context. Clearly in my post I provided evidence where the Titan blower is insufficient for GTX980 SLI, a situation where each of those cards uses just 165-170W of power. HardOCP had to raise fan speed to 100% to ensure that the card's boost was working as intended. You seem to have missed this. Since the discussion centers around 970 SLI, this is 100% relevant information.

My reasoning for showing you 980 and Titan X blowers is to simulate what would happen if one overclocked a 970 with a blower and its power usage went up to 200W+. Even if we ignore overclocking, I provided plenty of proof where an after-market open air card runs cooler, quieter and boosts higher at the same time, while costing less than a reference blower 970. You provided no legitimate counter response to this.

You seem to be unable to think outside the box and connect the dots though. Most importantly, I've noticed that you literally do not read what's written and almost always assume information that's not there or add some new information/assumptions. I am not sure what it is that you do for a living but you constantly do this - make assumptions and add information that's not there and reply based on that "made up" information. What's presented by me was clear evidence backed up by facts that after-market open air cooled designs such as MSI Gaming or Gigabyte G1 970 gaming are far superior to a reference blower Titan design. You failed to provide a counter-argument that disproves this and instead keep saying that I derailed the thread and we should talk about a 970........OK. Maybe you should re-read the OP and the entire thread.

 

[omeds]

I prefer reference blowers myself. I find them better for MGPU configs and like that heat is exhausted out of the case.