Why are desktop CPUs so slow at improving?

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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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Or get a Z170 mobo, and overclock the snot out of a G4400 Pentium (Skylake BCLK OC). That's what I did for nearly a year, because I wanted a fast web-browsing machine, and Firefox was pretty darn single-threaded back then. Along with a nice OEM Samsung PCI-E SSD.
 

Sonikku

Lifer
Jun 23, 2005
15,901
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If all you need is single threaded IPC you can just get just get a fast dual core, and you don't have to pay through the nose for that.
Only problem is a fast dual core isn't fast enough. Players with the latest Intel chips will clock them all the way to 5.2ghz and still see their framerates falling below 60 in raids.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Only problem is a fast dual core isn't fast enough. Players with the latest Intel chips will clock them all the way to 5.2ghz and still see their framerates falling below 60 in raids.
You are right, I wouldn't build a system with less then four cores now even for a budget rig.
 
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TheELF

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2012
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There are tons of SoC makers. Arm isn’t just about the cpu, what these company really make are SoCs that use arm and they can either license the archeturture from Arm or create their own custom cores.
They have to make their own custom cores anyway but anyone who does anything with ARM has to pay for the licence.
And companies that do socs for washing machines or cars are hardly going to be competitive,we were talking about smartphone arm cpus/socs wich would be the cutting edge up to dangerous for desktop, according to some.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Only problem is a fast dual core isn't fast enough. Players with the latest Intel chips will clock them all the way to 5.2ghz and still see their framerates falling below 60 in raids.

So what are they using then?
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Overclocked quad cores?

He was complaining that it was a single threaded, program, meaning more cores do nothing and people had to pay top dollar to squeeze out more performance, then 5.2GHz dual core isn't fast enough.

Which actually doesn't add up. Because more cores don't help if it is single threaded, so what is the point of paying for more cores is they do nothing.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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He was complaining that it was a single threaded, program, meaning more cores do nothing and people had to pay top dollar to squeeze out more performance, then 5.2GHz dual core isn't fast enough.

Which actually doesn't add up. Because more cores don't help if it is single threaded, so what is the point of paying for more cores is they do nothing.
Well that is true but I'm sure that WoW isn't the only game he plays. And I think we are a long way from 6GHz even with overclocking.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Desktops have been nearly at a standstill for years. I guess it has to do with AMDs general lack of anything appealing until recently, no apps or games that require much more than what we have and the overall declining value of desktops. Does a new desktop work that much better for Facebook, email and web than a 10 year old machine?
I have a Q9650 w/8Gb, I'd like to update but I cannot figure out a good reason too. Runs everything including games that I need.
 

ehume

Golden Member
Nov 6, 2009
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. . .Does a new desktop work that much better for Facebook, email and web than a 10 year old machine?
I have a Q9650 w/8Gb, I'd like to update but I cannot figure out a good reason too. Runs everything including games that I need.
I'm with you: my wife is running a Core2 Duo E7200 from 2008. The only change I have made is to swap out the HD for an SSD. She won't let me upgrade her.
 

Hans Gruber

Platinum Member
Dec 23, 2006
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Desktops have been nearly at a standstill for years. I guess it has to do with AMDs general lack of anything appealing until recently, no apps or games that require much more than what we have and the overall declining value of desktops. Does a new desktop work that much better for Facebook, email and web than a 10 year old machine?
I have a Q9650 w/8Gb, I'd like to update but I cannot figure out a good reason too. Runs everything including games that I need.

I had a Q6600 up and running @ 3.3ghz in retirement but 3.6Ghz when cranked up. There is no way a Q9650 can keep up with modern CPU's. They are nice to have but a Ryzen 1200 OC'd would easily crush a 9650
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,436
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I had a Q6600 up and running @ 3.3ghz in retirement but 3.6Ghz when cranked up. There is no way a Q9650 can keep up with modern CPU's. They are nice to have but a Ryzen 1200 OC'd would easily crush a 9650
One thing to keep in mind with using systems older then five or six years, is they can die on you with without notice. so one has to careful.
 

goldstone77

Senior member
Dec 12, 2017
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One thing to keep in mind with using systems older then five or six years, is they can die on you with without notice. so one has to careful.
The real killer of old systems is usually faulty power supplies. If your computer starts acting weird, randomly shutting off, and parts start dying in it. It's probably a power supply dying, and killing off components. Cheap chinese power supplies that are as light as a box of tissues have destroyed many a machine! It's worth it to buy a quality power supply with good protections in case it fails.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
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The real killer of old systems is usually faulty power supplies. If your computer starts acting weird, randomly shutting off, and parts start dying in it. It's probably a power supply dying, and killing off components. Cheap chinese power supplies that are as light as a box of tissues have destroyed many a machine! It's worth it to buy a quality power supply with good protections in case it fails.
Too true. I actually recommend replacing PSUs every 5 years that you own a system, and HDDs every 3 years, as preventative maintenance to keep your PC running. Replace mobo/CPU/RAM every 10 years, and make sure to DUST OUT your PC every year, at a minimum. Possibly MORE OFTEN, if you smoke or have pets or live in a high-dust environment. Case fans too, can be hit or miss, might need to replace them every 3, 5, 7, 10 years or so, it really depends on how well that they are made, and what sort of bearings that they have. Whenever possible, opt for PSU and case fans with BALL-BEARINGS, rather than SLEEVE. Though, sleeve-bearing technology has been advancing over the years, so this last piece of advice may not be relevant anymore.

Lastly, get a PSU with a GOOD warranty. And also, get a UPS / Battery back-up, also with a GOOD warranty, and ENOUGH power (in WATTS) to run your system for at least 5-10 minutes, to accommodate a "safe" shutdown.
 
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goldstone77

Senior member
Dec 12, 2017
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Too true. I actually recommend replacing PSUs every 5 years that you own a system, and HDDs every 3 years, as preventative maintenance to keep your PC running. Replace mobo/CPU/RAM every 10 years, and make sure to DUST OUT your PC every year, at a minimum. Possibly MORE OFTEN, if you smoke or have pets or live in a high-dust environment. Case fans too, can be hit or miss, might need to replace them every 3, 5, 7, 10 years or so, it really depends on how well that they are made, and what sort of bearings that they have. Whenever possible, opt for PSU and case fans with BALL-BEARINGS, rather than SLEEVE. Though, sleeve-bearing technology has been advancing over the years, so this last piece of advice may not be relevant anymore.

Lastly, get a PSU with a GOOD warranty. And also, get a UPS / Battery back-up, also with a GOOD warranty, and ENOUGH power (in WATTS) to run your system for at least 5-10 minutes, to accommodate a "safe" shutdown.

Everything you said is good advice. I recommend disc imaging/backup software to make a image of your boot drive. I use a free to use for personal use software called Macrium Reflect 7 Free Edition to make an backup image. The image is also mountable so you can browse through it if need be. It takes ~15 minutes to restore 50GBs depending on how fast your hard drives transfer data. Just to add to that some brands I've had great experience with when it comes to longevity/quality. Western Digital Black hard drives; Samsung SSDs; Noctua Fans(SSO bearing), and Noctua says this bearing has a lifespan of up to 150,000 hours.) When picking out a power supply's go with brand names and read reviews! Seasonic is one of the more widely dependable names, but like you said most PSU's with good warranties tend to be good. Take a look and see if you can find it on this list. https://plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSupplies.aspx It can help give you a ballpark of what to expect. New bronze or better quality power supplies from brand name manufacturers have become very good. Fluid Dynamic or Hydrostatic bearings tend to be the longest lasting . In a power supply the fan is usually the first thing to fail, and the power supply burns up from there.
ATX specification demands (OCP, SCP, OVP), but there are more that a PSU can have.
OVP/UVP (Over Voltage/Under Voltage Protection)
OPP (Over Power Protection)
OTP (Over Temperature Protection)
SCP (Short Circuit Protection)

Sleeve bearing fan can last up to 30,000 hours (and even more in some cases) at temperatures reaching 50 degrees C. Sleeve bearing fans aren't designed for horizontal mounting since oil inside the bearing moves to one of the shaft's sides, so it doesn't provide uniform friction protection.

Double ball bearings to reduce friction. This type of fan can be mounted in any orientation without affecting its longevity. The typical lifespan of a good ball bearing fan can reach, and in some cases even exceed, 50,000 hours at very high ambient temperatures.

Fluid dynamic bearing (FDB) and hydro dynamic bearing (HDB)
fans are in essence highly modified versions of the sleeve bearing fans, where the design of the bearing is different and also the lubricant fluid is kept intact with the use of seals (some good-quality sleeve bearing fans also feature seals to keep the oil intact). This means friction is kept at very low levels even after prolonged usage, which can easily exceed 50,000 hours and in some cases reach up to 300,000 hours. The lubricant in FDB fans is pumped up to the whole surface of the bearing through a spiral groove, and this feature makes these fans a better choice for horizontal mounting, since the lubricant covers the whole surface of the shaft in all cases.

New ATX case designs have different mounting positions than the past. Make sure your power supply mounting position is acceptable for the type of fan bearing it has.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,403
136
I had a Q6600 up and running @ 3.3ghz in retirement but 3.6Ghz when cranked up. There is no way a Q9650 can keep up with modern CPU's. They are nice to have but a Ryzen 1200 OC'd would easily crush a 9650

I don't doubt that, I'm not talking bench marks or fps. To me performance on everything I use & play runs satisfactory or better with one exception, star citizen.
I have trouble justifying the need to buy/build a new machine when my 8 year old machine handles everything I need.

Corsair power supply, so far zero problems with the machine. Hard drive started making a screeching sound earlier in the year so I replaced it with an ssd. Made the machine feel new again.
 

Burpo

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2013
4,223
473
126
x5650cpuzcompare.jpg

Dug this out of the closet today & fired it up. Was kind of surprised how well it still does, 8 yr old OC. Intel Xeon X5650 vs AMD R5 1600 are about dead even..
 
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