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Why are all those home-schooled religious zealots?

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<< IMHO, high school tends to shelter you more from the real world than homeschooling >>



How can being in a world with limited scope of reality prepare you for the real world? A very big part of real world dealings is that of social interaction. Not only that, but largely these interactions are going to be from two parties who completely disagree with each other. Now, lets consider home-school where the majority of your social interactions are with those of the same mentality. All this does is perpetuate this infinitesimal scope of life. If you're in home-school, who do you primarily interact with? Probably either those from church, those who also home-school, or family, right? Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but this has been my experience.

There are many things I didn't like about school, but looking back, I wouldn't give it up for the world.
 
How can being in a world with limited scope of reality prepare you for the real world? A very big part of real world dealings is that of social interaction. Not only that, but largely these interactions are going to be from two parties who completely disagree with each other. Now, lets consider home-school where the majority of your social interactions are with those of the same mentality. All this does is perpetuate this infinitesimal scope of life. If you're in home-school, who do you primarily interact with? Probably either those from church, those who also home-school, or family, right? Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but this has been my experience.



You make the mistake as many do when you generalize and assume regarding home schooled children. There is a rather large community of home schooled children who have plenty of social interaction and turn out just fine.

No, you won't probably find many home schooled kids out dropping acid at parties on the weekend, shooting up schools or dropping out.

I'd venture a guess that part of the reason parents choose home schooling is because substance abuse of all kinds can often be more prevalent in private school environments where money is often in greater abundance.
 
flawedecision: You've really just proved my point. I can't recall any partisan diatribes from my school experience. To say that all teachers are leftists is entirely unfounded. My teachers were [ostensibly] unbiased even through political discussions. My political ideology was built from my own experiences, and indeed, it's quite antithetical to the ones of my peers.

Can anyone substantiate flawedecision's generalization? Were the teachers in your school leftist? Did they push their ideology to their students?
 
<<lol, if that's a comment on social skills, then the majority of the folks on this forum (probably mostly public schooled) are pretty socially inept as well.>>

Well, this is a computer focused forum... 😉 On topic though, home-schooling is no different from any other type of schooling. Just as there are good and bad public schools, and good and bad private schools, there are good and bad homeschools. I have met many highly intelligent and well-rounded people who have been home-schooled, I have also met many people who, like some cousins of mine, were home-schooled because, as my aunt put it, "We just can't trust those humanist educators.". I was lucky enough to grow up in a school district that is among the best in my state. However, there are many people who are not lucky enough to live in an area in which the school system is as good. There is no reason that home-schooling cannot be every bit as good as an education in a good traditional school, the fact that some people have the wrong reasons for home-schooling has no bearing on the quality of the education in general.

ZV
 
No, you won't probably find many home schooled kids out dropping acid at parties on the weekend, shooting up schools or dropping out.

yea, those were good times... i remember back in the day... me and my public school buddies would do all of that stuff.

I'd venture a guess that part of the reason parents choose home schooling is because substance abuse of all kinds can often be more prevalent in private school environments where money is often in greater abundance.

this would go against the argument that home schooling doesn't shelter the kids. imho, if you raise a kid well, you won't have to worry about he/she doing drugs.
 


<<

<< IMHO, high school tends to shelter you more from the real world than homeschooling >>



How can being in a world with limited scope of reality prepare you for the real world? A very big part of real world dealings is that of social interaction. Not only that, but largely these interactions are going to be from two parties who completely disagree with each other. Now, lets consider home-school where the majority of your social interactions are with those of the same mentality. All this does is perpetuate this infinitesimal scope of life. If you're in home-school, who do you primarily interact with? Probably either those from church, those who also home-school, or family, right? Again, I'm sure there are exceptions, but this has been my experience.

There are many things I didn't like about school, but looking back, I wouldn't give it up for the world. >>



In reference to the bolded comment there, I consider high school to be a world with a limited scope of reality too. 🙂 Homeschoolers learn to interact with people of all different ages better than high schoolers in my experience. If there is any social impediment at all, it's that homeschools have more difficulty in talking with other teens, but they are generally more competant in carrying on conversations with adults, which facilitates them in the real world. True, there is the risk of fewer diverse opinions but in schools there is a high degree of conformity of opinion as well, on the liberal side. What I've found is that most parents of homeschoolers who school their child at home for religious reasons, want to expose them to diverse opinions for the sake of the child being able to understand better what they believe and why. The parents know that the child will enter the real world at some point and they try to prepare him or her for that experience. My parents always encouraged me to study evolution, because I had an interest in it, and I still and creationist, as they are. You have to have a lot of confidence that what you believe is true if you allow your kids to learn what other people believe is true and still trust them to reach the same conclusions you have. So generally, though the environment homeschooled children are in is very unisided, they are required and encouraged to broaden their views through outside sources.

BTW, on a tangent, we keep talking about the 'real world'. What exactly is that? Like life doesn't really start until you graduate high school? Obviously not, since those school years shape who we are. Just a thought.

 


<< There is a rather large community of home schooled children who have plenty of social interaction and turn out just fine. >>



Indeed, and that's part of what I perceive to be the problem. This "community" is an intellectual singularity, as opposed to an intellectual amalgam. By that I simply mean, that it just further limits their perception of the world. This produces kids who are xenophobic in an intellectual and religious (spiritual) sense.



<< No, you won't probably find many home schooled kids out dropping acid at parties on the weekend, shooting up schools or dropping out. >>



I can't argue with that, however, that's an entirely different issue. This has nothing to do with education, and everything to do with lazy parents (imo). I had all the freedom I wanted as a child, and yet I've never so much as smoked a cigarette. Home-schooling children simply makes this type of thing inaccessible. What's to say these kids won't rebel when they finally leave home? This type of behavior has been seen many times.



<< I'd venture a guess that part of the reason parents choose home schooling is because substance abuse of all kinds can often be more prevalent in private school environments where money is often in greater abundance. >>



I'll agree with that as well, but again, it's a different issue. I know of one local "elite" private school that's full of drugs. Is it an issue with the parents for not noticing that their child comes home at midnight all doped up, or is it the school's fault? I point to the former.
 


<< <<lol, if that's a comment on social skills, then the majority of the folks on this forum (probably mostly public schooled) are pretty socially inept as well.>>

Well, this is a computer focused forum... 😉 On topic though, home-schooling is no different from any other type of schooling. Just as there are good and bad public schools, and good and bad private schools, there are good and bad homeschools. I have met many highly intelligent and well-rounded people who have been home-schooled, I have also met many people who, like some cousins of mine, were home-schooled because, as my aunt put it, "We just can't trust those humanist educators.". I was lucky enough to grow up in a school district that is among the best in my state. However, there are many people who are not lucky enough to live in an area in which the school system is as good. There is no reason that home-schooling cannot be every bit as good as an education in a good traditional school, the fact that some people have the wrong reasons for home-schooling has no bearing on the quality of the education in general.

ZV >>



Well said. Different things work best for different people in different circumstances. We could push this thread to 900 posts and not reach a conclusion on whether homeschooling's good or bad because the answer varies person to person. Thanks for the thoughtful comments.
 
I can't recall any partisan diatribes from my school experience. To say that all teachers are leftists is entirely unfounded. My teachers were [ostensibly] unbiased even through political discussions. My political ideology was built from my own experiences, and indeed, it's quite antithetical to the ones of my peers.



Most will not recall because they were too young. But I most certainly do recall... whether it be telling us that we were short of supplies for in class projects, posters, etc., because the parents in our city voted for a measure reducing property taxes and to tell our parents what was going on.... that was one of the most memorable experiences. I had quite a few others regarding the environment, death penalty, taxes, presidential elections...

It happens all the time and people just typically won't remember... I have an unusually good photographic and detailed long term memory.


If you don't think that public education teachers in this country lean to the left then you aren't paying attention to current affairs.
 


<< No, you won't probably find many home schooled kids out dropping acid at parties on the weekend, shooting up schools or dropping out. >>


And you won't find many public school students that do either 😕



<< If you don't think that public education teachers in this country lean to the left then you aren't paying attention to current affairs. >>


Depends on where you are...on another note, why does everything turn into a left vs. right issue? 😛
 
And you won't find many public school students that do either

The national surveys speak differently.

I don't think it is mere coincidence that private institutions and home schooled children are scoring better in state and federally set standard aptitudes.

There are books authored on this subject which I suggest the doubters read.

I had a glimpse of both public and private education... In recollection I found the public to be more enjoyable, however standing where I am now it is rather obvious in my view that the private was far far of greater benefit to my preparation for life in general.
 


<< I place a certain amount of faith in the fact that true teachers have to go to school for many years to learn how to "teach". Teaching is NOT something I believe we are all magically gifted with. Therefore I do not think one day Mom/Dad can say: "You know what? I'm going to teach you myself." Hmmm...... NO. >>


lol, some of the stupidest, most inept people i've met in my life have been public school teachers. our public school system is nothing to be proud of; it's barely adequate.

btw, what makes anyone think that going to public school prepares you for "the real world". you won't be prepared for "the real world" until you start living in it. and i'd like to know what great social skills are being learned in public school that aren't being learned elsewhere? just because someone is homeschooled doesn't mean they're locked up and unable to interact with other kids. some parents choose to keep their kids away from learning some of those great social skills available in public schools. like drugs, bad manners, peer-pressure idiocy and other wonderful social skills.
 
Depends on where you are...on another note, why does everything turn into a left vs. right issue?

Isn't a matter of philosophies... it is a matter of if they are kept out of the classroom. I actually preferred teachers and profs that leaned to the left because they were ALWAYS more leanient when it came to grading.
 
I don't think it is mere coincidence that private institutions and home schooled children are scoring better in state and federally set standard aptitudes.

i also don't think you can prove that the higher scores are a result of the education alone. for example, i went to public schools k-8. i'd bet all my money i can beat the vast majority of home schoolers in an academic competition.
 
HotChic - Great comments, I couldn't have said it any better...

I have been homeschooled since 1st grade... I'm a sophmore now in highschool. I currently go to a public school part time (math, spanish, music classes) and do the rest at home.

Homeschooling is so misunderstood. It was great to see another homeschooler that basically "saw what i saw" (hotchic).

For every one "sheltered, social inept, smartypants, stereotypical homeschooler" there are atleast 200 or more normal ones. I totally agree with Hotchic, that I feel I am MORE prepared for the real world by being homeschooled. I can strike up a conversation with anymore, adults... little kids etc.... due partly to the fact I wasn't stuck up in a school buidling all day. I went out and learned alot of stuff "first hand". This year I've been able to get a good job in a real work place. Not many other sophmores could pull that off because they get so much "busy work" from school. By homeschooling, not only have I learned alot of stuff first hand, but I have developed better learning and studies habits than if I'd been stuck in a public school all my life. What I do is preparing me alot more for college than going to a public school. Its alot more realistic because I have to really self motivate myself and and do stuff on my own.

My mom taught in public schools for over ten years, yet she decided to homeschool me. Basically because most of the public school systems suck. And she wanted to teach me in a way where you didn't have to learn everything "this way", you looked at all the ways. And I'm really glad she did it the way she did.

Last comment here...long post.. sorry...

Going in to highschool I really really wanted to go to a public school full time. But it didn't really work out, so I decided to go part-time. And thats also been a really good thing for me. Made me appreciate homeschooling alot more. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of great friends there and all... but it just makes me thankful I didn't have to put up with the bullcrap public schools throw around.

Anyways, I'm not trying to "toot my own horn" or piss off people who went to public school all their lives or anything at all like that. Just trying to share my view point alittle bit... thanks

 
edited out. just here to listen in. to each his own and all that jazz.

to reiterate: homeschooling is fine with me. other schooling is just as fine.
 


<< want to expose them to diverse opinions for the sake of the child being able to understand better what they believe and why >>



Hmm? How can you help someone to understand what they believe? There are some people who refuse to read anything on a given topic because they feel that the dogma of others will taint their own ideas. Since when do we need others to tell us what we believe, and why?



<< True, there is the risk of fewer diverse opinions but in schools there is a high degree of conformity of opinion as well, on the liberal side >>



Is this propaganda disseminated from those who home-school? Already we have two comments stating that schools are leftist. I guess that brings up another commonality. Out of all the home-schooled children I know, not a one even knows the left exists.



<< My parents always encouraged me to study evolution, because I had an interest in it, and I still and creationist, as they are >>



Evolution from a creationist's perspective, eh? Yes, I've heard this before. "Evolution is the antithesis to creationism, and we know how crazy that is. From that we can deduce that Darwin is a lunatic. Now,lets read the bible and about how man is above all that 'creppeth upon the earth.'" A true story follows. One of the more profound bigots I know called me the other day, out of the blue, to discussion creationism. Knowing that this was bait for a debate, she proceeded to tell me the following:

- The "natural order" of the universe proves the idea of creationism

That was it. Apparantly this came from someone at her church who was "very educated" in "this subject", and had "researched it very well." They obfuscate science to support their own ideas.



<< BTW, on a tangent, we keep talking about the 'real world'. What exactly is that? Like life doesn't really start until you graduate high school? >>



I realize that the idea of "real world" is a little ambiguous, so I've tried to keep it out of my latest posts. I know at what point I was impacted by the real world, and it wasn't when I moved out or graduated high school. I think the impaction of the real world is relative.
 
i also don't think you can prove that the higher scores are a result of the education alone. for example, i went to public schools k-8. i'd bet all my money i can beat the vast majority of home schoolers in an academic competition.



Higher scores are attributed to environment as well... your right. There's no reason why a student with attentive parents can't excel in the public educational system... it happens all the time.

But that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the masses. Familiar with the drop out rates in the public sector of education? How about the drop out rates in urban areas?

Not pretty statistics. Of course the teachers will never assume any notion of responsibility. They'll blame it on race relations or my personal favorite, "schools that are falling down."


I wasn't going to do this but I'll tell you what the underlying problem is with most aspects of public education -- unions.
 


<< Damn anal homeschoolers have to snap back with their replies. Sheesh, calm down I was just posting my opinion, I never said I was the complete authoritative judge in the matter. :| >>



🙂 And we're just responding with what we know. If you post, people usually feel free to respond for some strange reason.
 
Descartes,

Is it really in your best interest to tell others how to raise their children? Doesn't this undermine the tolerance you were referring to in your initial post?
 
But that's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the masses. Familiar with the drop out rates in the public sector of education? How about the drop out rates in urban areas?

well, we're really just talking about religious zealots and homeschooling, but i digress. you want to talk about the masses, fine with me.

i really do not think that the masses would be better off in private school or being home schooled, than in public schools. hell, most of the masses can't afford private school. so there's home schooling left. a lot of households have two working parents. which makes home schooling difficult. not to mention, they probably aren't all qualified.

what's better for the masses is public schools.

Not pretty statistics. Of course the teachers will never assume any notion of responsibility. They'll blame it on race relations or my personal favorite, "schools that are falling down."

I wasn't going to do this but I'll tell you what the underlying problem is with most aspects of public education -- unions.

perhaps, but i have a solution that will "fix" public education, and a lot of other problems along the way....

better parents.
 
I'm not sure if my comments had any weight in the social skills flame fest...but I would like to state that my comment on social skills, were only a hypothetical possible explaination to why the home schooled folks he knows are so unfriendly.

I didn't mean to apply such things to all home schoolers, just that specific group.

I don't know if anyone took what I said in the wrong light, but if you did, I apologize I didn't mean to step on any toes 😉
 


<< Hmm? How can you help someone to understand what they believe? There are some people who refuse to read anything on a given topic because they feel that the dogma of others will taint their own ideas. Since when do we need others to tell us what we believe, and why? >>


Sorry, should have been clearer. To help the kids understand better what they parents (who I was referring to by 'they') believe.



<< Is this propaganda disseminated from those who home-school? Already we have two comments stating that schools are leftist. I guess that brings up another commonality. Out of all the home-schooled children I know, not a one even knows the left exists. >>


Generalizing again Descartes. 🙂 I don't assume that all teachers are leftist, and I honestly could care less. People tend to form their own political opinions as they get older; I'm not afraid of having anyone brainwashed into being leftist or right wing. The conformity in schools comes from the fact that there is only one curriculum being taught, which usually only puts across one point of view, maybe two, and if you are extrodinarily lucky, perhaps you'll find a relatively unbiased curriculum. That's true for all curriculums, everywhere, including those used in homeschooling. The difference is, I've found, that homeschoolers use a wider variety of curriculums.



<< Evolution from a creationist's perspective, eh? Yes, I've heard this before. "Evolution is the antithesis to creationism, and we know how crazy that is. From that we can deduce that Darwin is a lunatic. Now,lets read the bible and about how man is above all that 'creppeth upon the earth.'" A true story follows. One of the more profound bigots I know called me the other day, out of the blue, to discussion creationism. Knowing that this was bait for a debate, she proceeded to tell me the following:

- The "natural order" of the universe proves the idea of creationism

That was it. Apparantly this came from someone at her church who was "very educated" in "this subject", and had "researched it very well." They obfuscate science to support their own ideas. >>


Please don't use one ignorant person as your representative for everyone. I studied evolution from the same textbooks that you used in school, from an evolutionist's perspective, as well as evolution from a creationist's perspective. I didn't hear someone just arbitrarily tell me something like that and believe it, I studied it from both sides. You make my point for me in fact. What is taught as science in the public schools is "obfuscated science to support their own ideas" to some extent as well but public school student are taught only the one side and have no chance to examine other scientist's teachings on opposing viewpoints. (check out books by Dr. Gish or by the Creation Research Institute if you're interesting in exploring the other sides to see how scientific or biased they are)
 
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