Why Arabs Lose Wars

[Jimbo]

I thought this to be a very telling read.

Abstract: The author argues that the reasons for Arab armies? perpetual ineffectiveness are rooted in Arab culture. Social factors that prohibit success include: secrecy and paranoia, pride, class structure, a lack of coordination on all levels, and little individual freedom or initiative.

Middle East Review of International Affairs

About The Author:
Norvell De Atkine is a retired U.S. army colonel. He currently instructs U.S. army personnel assigned to Middle Eastern areas.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Case in point....Iraq.

 

[HappyGamer2]

LOL, if you have spend time with there military like I have you can see why they aren't good fighters in modern times
much of the article is true but there is more to it than that

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Jimbo
I thought this to be a very telling read.

Abstract: The author argues that the reasons for Arab armies? perpetual ineffectiveness are rooted in Arab culture. Social factors that prohibit success include: secrecy and paranoia, pride, class structure, a lack of coordination on all levels, and little individual freedom or initiative.

Middle East Review of International Affairs

About The Author:
Norvell De Atkine is a retired U.S. army colonel. He currently instructs U.S. army personnel assigned to Middle Eastern areas.

Afghanistan took care of the USSR.

Is it possible that in their wars with Israeli they were fighting an US backed country?

 

[Phuz]

I guess you don't understand the religious mentality of these people. The devotion they have to their cause is frightening.
They lose wars because they have no military technology.
They don?t have bomber flying miles high with satellite guided weapons.
It has absolutely nothing to do with pride, class structure, or paranoia.

Hello, 9/11?

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Phuz
I guess you don't understand the religious mentality of these people. The devotion they have to their cause is frightening.
They lose wars because they have no military technology.
They don?t have bomber flying miles high with satellite guided weapons.
It has absolutely nothing to do with pride, class structure, or paranoia.

Don't you think that their pride, class structure and paranoia are rooted in their frightening devotion to their religion, as you point out?

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: Phuz
I guess you don't understand the religious mentality of these people. The devotion they have to their cause is frightening.
They lose wars because they have no military technology.
They don?t have bomber flying miles high with satellite guided weapons.
It has absolutely nothing to do with pride, class structure, or paranoia.

Hello, 9/11?

You should ask why DON'T they have those things?
Many of those states do have the money.

Did you read the entire article?

 

[HappyGamer2]

some truth in Phuz statements, but there is far more to it than that
yes praying is the most important thing in life, after eating, well usually

 

[HappyGamer2]

"Afghanistan took care of the USSR."

yes but are the Afghanistan's really arabs? and some of the same problems that apply to arabs also applies to russia and it's troops

 

[Phuz]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Phuz
I guess you don't understand the religious mentality of these people. The devotion they have to their cause is frightening.
They lose wars because they have no military technology.
They don?t have bomber flying miles high with satellite guided weapons.
It has absolutely nothing to do with pride, class structure, or paranoia.

Don't you think that their pride, class structure and paranoia are rooted in their frightening devotion to their religion, as you point out?

No. The article is a joke. Their "lack of coordination on all levels, and little individual freedom or initiative" helped them land two jets into the WTC.

 

[HappyGamer2]

No Phuz it's the truth I have been there lived and worked with them, spent lots time helping them, well tried

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: Phuz

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: Phuz
I guess you don't understand the religious mentality of these people. The devotion they have to their cause is frightening.
They lose wars because they have no military technology.
They don?t have bomber flying miles high with satellite guided weapons.
It has absolutely nothing to do with pride, class structure, or paranoia.

Don't you think that their pride, class structure and paranoia are rooted in their frightening devotion to their religion, as you point out?

No. The article is a joke. Their "lack of coordination on all levels, and little individual freedom or initiative" helped them land two jets into the WTC.

9-11 does not a war make. It may be a first strike in a war, but that is not a sustained campaign.

 

[Phuz]

Oh, ok.. so by your logic, it was their lack of coordination and freedom that allowed two jets to crash into the WTC?
I s'pose people sacrifice their very existence in blind faith on a daily basis!

 

[HappyGamer2]

faith or is it brain washing?

 

[Phuz]

9-11 does not a war make. It may be a first strike in a war, but that is not a sustained campaign.

Wrong. The war against Western Civilization/Infidels started long before 9/11.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: Phuz
Oh, ok.. so by your logic, it was their lack of coordination and freedom that allowed two jets to crash into the WTC?
I s'pose people sacrifice their very existence in blind faith on a daily basis!

They are on occasion capable of conducting those types of strikes, but they are not frequent.

If that were the case we would then be discussing an article titled "Why Arabs WIN wars" or "How come Israel lost their war of Independence in 1948 so quickly".

Perhaps we would be posting and speaking Arabic?

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: Phuz


No. The article is a joke. Their "lack of coordination on all levels, and little individual freedom or initiative" helped them land two jets into the WTC.

It doesn't take much skill to hit a stationary 1,400 foot tall building. It's quite hard to miss in fact.

 

[HappyGamer2]

I just want to learn how to fly the plane , not how land or take off.
that's the way it is

 

[HappyGamer2]

Jimbo, that's for that link, I love it, the more I read it the more I like it, it brings back fond memories, well nightmares too

 

[Kadarin]

Perhaps the problem lies in the current structure of Arab culture itself? Note that Arab oil money can certainly buy weapons systems, and the Iraqi military uses a wide variety of weapons purchased from other countries, but the entire Arab world appears to lack the social and scientific impetus to develop technology on its own. There are a variety of reasons for this, but perhaps the most informative authority on the subject would be a study prepared by Arab scholars at the behest of the United Nations Development Program.

http://www.undp.org/rbas/ahdr/ (link to study, downloadable in PDF format)
http://www.nzz.ch/english/background/2002/07/18_arab_countries.html (paraphrase and commentary on the report)

During the 3rd ID's first foray into Baghdad two days ago, FOX News' embedded reporter Greg Kelly asked one of the commanders in the field what he thought about Iraqi resistance, and his response was essentially that while the Iraqis had a significant amount of tenacity and courage, as a group they lacked organization and cohesion, and lacked the ability to effectively use the weapons systems they had. The US military (and to a degree most Western militaries) excel at coordination between the different aspects of modern military force: The strategic air campaign, close air support, armored vehicles, and troops on the ground. In addition, the United States has the finest training and group discipline in the world. That, along with effective strategy, tactical planning, and logistics, is what wins wars.

By contrast, on Iraqi TV we typically see a group of apparent soldiers, some in uniform and some not, chanting and holding up their AK-47s, or we see a bunch of guys in the back of a truck yelling and screaming as they tow artillery around.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: HappyGamer2
Jimbo, that's for that link, I love it, the more I read it the more I like it, it brings back fond memories, well nightmares too

Jimbo = Architect of Nightmares!

You are welcome HappyGamer2.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Phuz
I guess you don't understand the religious mentality of these people. The devotion they have to their cause is frightening.
They lose wars because they have no military technology.
They don?t have bomber flying miles high with satellite guided weapons.
It has absolutely nothing to do with pride, class structure, or paranoia.

Hello, 9/11?

Maybe it's things like pride, class structure, and paranoia that keeps them from having the military technology. They're extremely wealthy, but why do they possess so little technology? It's because of the class structure and lack of freedom of social movement.

Oh, ok.. so by your logic, it was their lack of coordination and freedom that allowed two jets to crash into the WTC?

They attacked a building that was completely unguarded and full of civilians, during a time when nobody expected it. Lets see them try something now... and don't think they're not. And even if they did succeed, it means nothing. If the US wanted to, the US could do what they plan 2 years to do, in a matter of minutes.

 

[HappyGamer2]

you see their goverment departments fight each other and they don't care about working together towards a common goal.

our parts are short and we need them badly, were are they? at the airport and have been there for 2 weeks, then they get put on a truck and go to the wrong place when they finally come half of them have been damaged beyond use


on the lower end there afraid to make a descion, for fear of being wrong, best to do nothing than make a mistake

 

[sandorski]

I'm not sure what the point of this discussion is. Yes, much of the Middle East lacks leading edge weaponry and yes their societies haven't developed enough to use what weaponry they have very effectively. The same can be said of most Third World nations. It takes experience and time to develop the tactics that are common amongst Western Nations, Western Nations have had a lot of both.

 

[HappyGamer2]

sandorski
there is a little bit more to it than that, there mind set and culture just doesn't work right in modern war