WHS and diskexpander

[Falloutboy]

basically I want the disk expander feature for my HTPC I remember reading a while back there was a way to make windows server 2003 work like a normal os, has anyone done with with WHS?

 

[VinDSL]

Interesting question... if I understand your question...

I've thought about buying WHS, instead of just another copy of Vista - sure would solve a LOT of my backup problems!

The icing on the cake would be if I could use WHS like a "normal OS".

That IS what you're asking, right? 🙂

 

[Falloutboy]

basically yeah. I want disk expander but with a normal os.

 

[Codewiz]

Here is the problem. WHS works by monitoring the shares you setup. You can't copy data directly to the actual drives in my computer and have WHS recognize everything correctly. The only way to ensure balancing and disk pooling works correctly is to place data via the network shares. Most applications developed for windows do not function that way.

 

[stash]

Are you referring to Drive Extender?

I'm not sure what you mean by making 2003 run as a "normal" OS, or making WHS run as a "normal" OS.

WHS is 2003 under the hood. It can do pretty much anything 2003 can do. I say pretty much, because a few things are prohibited by the license, such as making WHS a domain controller.

 

[ViRGE]

I too am curious what you mean by "disk expander." That term was traditionally used for software that compressed the contents of a disk to allow you to store more data on them, which is a native feature of NTFS these days.

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: stash
I'm not sure what you mean by making 2003 run as a "normal" OS, or making WHS run as a "normal" OS.

WHS is 2003 under the hood. It can do pretty much anything 2003 can do.

I'm not *sure* what he means either, but...

What I'm asking is... can I install 'normal' apps like Firefox, MS Office, PSP, Winamp, et cetera, on a WHS machine - browse the web, check my email, yada, yada, yada...?

Or, will this machine have to be dedicated to hosting backups/restores, serving web pages, allowing remote access to all the machines on my LAN from 'the office' "Just like you're sitting there at the keyboard", as the ads say, and so forth, and so on?

On face value, WHS sounds like the greatest thing since Al Gore invented in Internet (and human caused global warming)!

I could probably do away with half the machines on my network, if I'm understanding how WHS functions correctly.

I'm just wondering, if things don't work out as planned, can I use WHS as a 'normal' machine, not just a Swiss-Army-Knife, Jack-Of-All-Trades, One-Size-Fits-All server... kapeesh? 😉

I suspect WHS will NOT act the same as a 'normal/standard' OS, because it's so cheap, but as long as it has some basic functionality, I might give it a whirl.

I suppose I could TRY IT FOR 120 DAYS, but I'm afraid I'll like it too much and end up paying full retail... 🙂

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
What I'm asking is... can I install 'normal' apps like Firefox, MS Office, PSP, Winamp, et cetera, on a WHS machine - browse the web, check my email, yada, yada, yada...?

Installing non-Server applications and browsing the Internet is strongly discouraged from any Server. Servers typically store high-value (dollar-wise or emotionally-wise) data, and any direct human interactions, especially Internet browsing, expose the Server to dangers. These include crashes (from poorly-written applications), and worms, trojans, and viruses (from email or web browsing).

I had one client with Windows SBS 2003 installed (well, sorta'...they'd disabled a bunch of stuff). They were using it to run Quickbooks from the console. I told them it was a no-no to have somebody sitting at the console and running Quickbooks, MS Office, browsing the Internet, etc.

They went ahead and bought a new desktop PC for such things. But it was too late. I soon discovered they had two quite-bad trojans already running on that Server. It only takes a couple of ill-considered mouseclicks to make a mess of a Server.

 

[stash]

I agree with RebateMonger about the security issues with installing non-server apps and especially browsing on a server. But AFAIK, there is no technical issue with running any of the apps you listed on WHS.

But there are plenty of folks at Microsoft that have installed various apps on WHS with no issue. I know of at least one person who runs Visual Studio 2005 on WHS so that he can code and debug sites that are hosted on the WHS without have to copy files over.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I too am curious what you mean by "disk expander." That term was traditionally used for software that compressed the contents of a disk to allow you to store more data on them, which is a native feature of NTFS these days.

This is the WHS feature that allows you to simply plug in another drive and seamless expand the available space. However, this is from the network point of view (e.g. your music share seems to have grown in space) it is *NOT* seemless on the WHS itself AFAIK.

Its simply not designed as a desktop OS, you definately can install addiional software on top of it (firefox, anything really). Most features are there (not sue if directx is there by default, haven't looked), but most of the features people care about are used via the network not locally.

I think those that want to run it locally wont be happy with the feature set when your point of view is from 'within' the box vs external.

 

[stash]

However, this is from the network point of view (e.g. your music share seems to have grown in space) it is *NOT* seemless on the WHS itself AFAIK.

Right. It's implemented through the use of junctions and tombstones, so if log on to the server directly and fire up Explorer, it will look pretty confusing. WHS actually fires up an Internet Explorer page that warns you not to mess around in Explorer or drive management.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: ViRGE
I too am curious what you mean by "disk expander." That term was traditionally used for software that compressed the contents of a disk to allow you to store more data on them, which is a native feature of NTFS these days.

This is the WHS feature that allows you to simply plug in another drive and seamless expand the available space. However, this is from the network point of view (e.g. your music share seems to have grown in space) it is *NOT* seemless on the WHS itself AFAIK.

Its simply not designed as a desktop OS, you definately can install addiional software on top of it (firefox, anything really). Most features are there (not sue if directx is there by default, haven't looked), but most of the features people care about are used via the network not locally.

I think those that want to run it locally wont be happy with the feature set when your point of view is from 'within' the box vs external.

Ahh that's true, I have a WHS box myself, but I forgot that MS's official term for its storage pool technology is "drive extender".

 

[VinDSL]

Originally posted by: stash
Right. It's implemented through the use of junctions and tombstones...

WHS actually fires up an Internet Explorer page that warns you not to mess around in Explorer or drive management.

Heh!

Tombstones, eh?

I guess it wouldn't be such a hot idea defragging WHS, yes? 😀

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
I guess it wouldn't be such a hot idea defragging WHS, yes? 😀

There's at least one third-party defrag tool for WHS.

 

[MmmSkyscraper]

Originally posted by: VinDSL
I suspect WHS will NOT act the same as a 'normal/standard' OS, because it's so cheap, but as long as it has some basic functionality, I might give it a whirl.

It's based on Windows 2003, it's just got WHS extensions. You can install other apps/services on it if you want at the expense of server performance and reliability.

 

[BD2003]

I've tried making a "hybrid" WHS and HTPC, and it was an absolute DISASTER. WHS is built to be a server, and starts grinding away moving data around, checking partitions etc - you wouldnt notice this pulling data over a 100mbit connection, but trying to watch a movie on the system while it does all this stuff is impossible, itll drop frames, skip around, take forever just to start playing, and so on.

So the answer is - Yes you can, but you really, really dont want to, trust me.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: BD2003
I've tried making a "hybrid" WHS and HTPC, and it was an absolute DISASTER. WHS is built to be a server, and starts grinding away moving data around, checking partitions etc - you wouldnt notice this pulling data over a 100mbit connection, but trying to watch a movie on the system while it does all this stuff is impossible, itll drop frames, skip around, take forever just to start playing, and so on.

So the answer is - Yes you can, but you really, really dont want to, trust me.

If you just want to serve media from it, WHS should be okay, but it's not designed to be a TV tuner box or anything like that. I use my WHS box to serve up videos and it works fine, including HD stuff. WHS can't always offer transfer speeds equivalent to a hard drive because it's often doing things in the background (balancing & data integrity) but I've never seen it fall below 70Mb/sec, which is plenty for streaming any kind of media.