Who's getting a big tax refund this year?

[s0me0nesmind1]

Doubtful. I started a new job late 2018 making a lot more and my wife quit her job and they gave her $298k in severance (yes, wtf). We had to defer it to 2019 just so we didn't get slaughtered in taxes. Thankfully they let her. So we'll get slaughtered in 2019 instead. F U Sam.

$298 in severance? WTF was she a CEO or some shit? Nicely done, /fistbump

 

[Kaido]

You're getting way too much into the weeds.

The problem is simple: Keeping up with the Jones.

Everyone convinced themselves they NEED a new car every 3 years. They NEED a house that is $600k. They NEED new shoes. They NEED a new purse. They MUST go shopping. They GOTTA spend their refund check. They MUST get the new iPhone because their current one just isn't as good as the Jones' new phone. They MUST get a pool installed because their neighbor did and it's awesome.

I've lived in a home that was literally less than our combined yearly take home pay for ~7 years. It's now paid off in full and I just continue to sock away money for when I WANT to upgrade our living to a nicer home.

I think it's even more simple than that: managing money is simply hard for a lot of people (myself included, math gives me a headache, literally), and it's easier to just not deal with it.

I honestly don't know too many people who fall into the whole 'keeping up with the Jones' theory; most people are just trying to get by & live a better life, but managing finances is a struggle, and without a clear, solid system in place, it's easy to fall prey to bad spending habits & living in debt & other stressful problems...but it's also difficult to overcome that when you're feeling trapped & don't have a clear escape route, which is why I really like living on a pre-defined set of rules for managing things, so that I can avoid as many of those self-imposed traps as possible!

 

[Kaido]

Yeah, make sure to pray and shake your fist at the evil rich people daily. For they are forbidding you from innovating, taking risks, and working hard.

QFP because that's hilarious

Also, you may laugh, but I have a friend who literally thinks this way. He refuses to shop on Amazon because he's mad at Jeff Bezos simply for being rich & paying his workers poorly. He blames the system for all of his personal failures, and feels like he's being held back, when really, he's just lazy & quits as soon as he runs into the first obstacle in any endeavor, which kills me because he's a smart guy, but has an extremely fixed mindset about a lot of things, rather than a growth mindset. He doesn't have any grit or determination about anything at all, whether it's relationships or jobs or continuing education. He seems perfectly content to jealously complain about the situations out there in the world, instead of taking strides to make his own life better. No one is holding a gun to his head; he just literally can't see that he has some strong, self-limiting beliefs that are preventing him from taking action to improve his situation.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I think it's even more simple than that: managing money is simply hard for a lot of people (myself included, math gives me a headache, literally), and it's easier to just not deal with it.

I honestly don't know too many people who fall into the whole 'keeping up with the Jones' theory; most people are just trying to get by & live a better life, but managing finances is a struggle, and without a clear, solid system in place, it's easy to fall prey to bad spending habits & living in debt & other stressful problems...but it's also difficult to overcome that when you're feeling trapped & don't have a clear escape route, which is why I really like living on a pre-defined set of rules for managing things, so that I can avoid as many of those self-imposed traps as possible!

I have to call bullshit on that general proposition. It honestly isn't hard.

Debating if you should pay 20% interest on credit card charges is a no- brainer. Debating on what percentage is lower for interest on a mortgage is a no-brainer. Debating on % fees for an investment account is a no-brainer. it Requires very little thought process.

Budgetting for how to spend? Maybe, I guess? I dunno. I've always lived WAAAY below my means so I guess I wouldn't know there. I honestly think EVERY single American can do that as well - the problem is they CHOOSE not to. I CHOOSE not to spend at expensive clothing places. I CHOOSE not to buy a new car. I CHOOSE to buy used when possible. I CHOOSE to not buy certain produce when it's higher price and not in season. I CHOOSE to not upgrade my PC if I don't have issue. The list goes on and on...

You can try to bullshit all you want that you don't understand keeping up with the Jones' - If you actually spend 5 minutes to study people (or yourself) it will become as clear as day to you. When you start realizing people upgrading their phones for no real reason - you will have an epiphany. When you realize people really didn't need that car upgrade you will have an epiphany. It honestly isn't that complex. You don't NEED a new car, you can survive just fine repairing your current one - or if it's too costly... Buy a FUCKING used one. You know, like I've been doing for the last 15 years? It isn't complex. It really isn't. Proclaiming it to be complex doesn't make it so.

 

[IronWing]

Yeah, make sure to pray and shake your fist at the evil rich people daily. For they are forbidding you from innovating, taking risks, and working hard.

I mean, feel free to proclaim regulations on preventing money in government such as getting rid of political spending - that doesn't mean someone that earned money should be giving it up just because they rightfully earned. Jealousy is a never-ending drug, you know?

You and Bezos getting stinking rich through work and risk and enjoying it is great. Your kids and grandkids getting rich because they picked the right parents? Screw that; tax that inheritance. Bezos’ kids can earn it just like Jeff did.


Note: I have no idea if Bezos has kids.

 

[rh71]

$298 in severance? WTF was she a CEO or some shit? Nicely done, /fistbump

No but high in IT for a NYC firm. They gave away 80k bonuses annually just for being there. 18 years. It came with stresses so that's why she chose to leave. Expected $0, came away with a bit more.

It's cost me a lot though, she's been home with me for the last 2 months.

You and Bezos getting stinking rich through work and risk and enjoying it is great. Your kids and grandkids getting rich because they picked the right parents? Screw that; tax that inheritance. Bezos’ kids can earn it just like Jeff did.

Just like my parents' money will be my money, my money is my kids' money. We constantly teach them values and earning things in other ways. Taxing it twice serves no purpose in that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You and Bezos getting stinking rich through work and risk and enjoying it is great. Your kids and grandkids getting rich because they picked the right parents? Screw that; tax that inheritance. Bezos’ kids can earn it just like Jeff did.


Note: I have no idea if Bezos has kids.

It's just a dog-eat-dog world that we live in - and with the costs with getting to the top of the ladder having money for your kids to pay for shit like college is a very big deal and a significant leg up that should be utilized. My parents paid for my college - I damn sure will do the same for my kids. My parents are decently wealthy - they will try to use theirs throughout retirement but I suspect that they won't be able to use all of it. Just because I will likely get some inheritance doesn't mean it should be taxed again.

I understand though in the sense that you don't want useless little shits of society and actually want them to live and earn wages as well - but if you have inheritance or not I don't really think plays a significant factor... I think the bigger factor is simply how you are raised.

 

[Brainonska511]

Just like my parents' money will be my money, my money is my kids' money. We constantly teach them values and earning things in other ways. Taxing it twice serves no purpose in that.

Except money isn't always taxed twice when it is inherited. Things like stepped-up basis in taxable investment funds basically lets capital appreciation go un-taxed.

I see no valid reason to not have some form of estate tax. The heirs are effectively getting free money (since they are not the ones paying the tax, the estate pays it, and only on the amount above the exemption limit). The horrors!

 

[Dr. Detroit]

On top of the usual W2 withholding set at 0 - I gave the Fed an extra $8K and state $2K so far. Was a great year for interest & dividends. Lucky I have all those LTC losses to offset my gains on the year. They'll come in handy this year as I have over $300K I'll be realizing on options this year.

I expect to owe another $15K for 'this year and will start writing quarterly checks in July of next year.

 

[skull]

I think it's even more simple than that: managing money is simply hard for a lot of people (myself included, math gives me a headache, literally), and it's easier to just not deal with it.

I honestly don't know too many people who fall into the whole 'keeping up with the Jones' theory; most people are just trying to get by & live a better life, but managing finances is a struggle, and without a clear, solid system in place, it's easy to fall prey to bad spending habits & living in debt & other stressful problems...but it's also difficult to overcome that when you're feeling trapped & don't have a clear escape route, which is why I really like living on a pre-defined set of rules for managing things, so that I can avoid as many of those self-imposed traps as possible!

Thats the keeping up with the jones trap. You have to live like others won't for awhile so you can live like others can't. Me I have no problem living the way others don't want to. I don't need the big house decorated all fancy in a nice neighborhood , don't need the new car, the new phone, expensive clothes/shoes. Its just comes naturally to me which lets me save even on a low income without a budget. What I like is freedom knowing I have my yearly income in the bank and only spend half my income in a year anyway. That gives you something all that fancy crap can't.

The its so hard out here types kill me. Hired one over the summer talking about just need to pay a few bills and get ahead but its so hard out here. Comes back on monday the weekend after his first check going on about buying the whole family jays at the mall. Yup it must be hard out here when your stupid bro.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Thats the keeping up with the jones trap. You have to live like others won't for awhile so you can live like others can't. Me I have no problem living the way others don't want to. I don't need the big house decorated all fancy in a nice neighborhood , don't need the new car, the new phone, expensive clothes/shoes. Its just comes naturally to me which lets me save even on a low income without a budget.

The its so hard out here types kill me. Hired one over the summer talking about just need to pay a few bills and get ahead but its so hard out here. Comes back on monday the weekend after his first check going on about buying the whole family jays at the mall. Yup it must be hard out here when your stupid bro.

Yup. It honestly isn't a difficult flow chart - and to be honest, very little of it has to do with effective budgeting. Budgeting is something you do to track your money. The root of the problem isn't tracking your money - it's the unnecessary and unneeded spending of it. Budgetting at the end of the day tells you "You have xyz dollars that you are able to spend this month while still paying other bills".

Understanding how to not buy shit you don't need is the root problem though. REGARDLESS of how much extra money you allocate via budgetting, you still don't NEED to spend that.

Step1: Find item that you feel you desire
Step2: "Do I really need to buy this shit?"
Step3: Discard item and go-back to Step 1 for next item.

 

[highland145]

I see no valid reason to not have some form of estate tax. The heirs are effectively getting free money (since they are not the ones paying the tax, the estate pays it, and only on the amount above the exemption limit). The horrors!

What's goof for the goose.....nix the EITC.

 

[Kaido]

I have to call bull on that general proposition. It honestly isn't hard.

Debating if you should pay 20% interest on credit card charges is a no- brainer. Debating on what percentage is lower for interest on a mortgage is a no-brainer. Debating on % fees for an investment account is a no-brainer. it Requires very little thought process.

Budgetting for how to spend? Maybe, I guess? I dunno. I've always lived WAAAY below my means so I guess I wouldn't know there. I honestly think EVERY single American can do that as well - the problem is they CHOOSE not to. I CHOOSE not to spend at expensive clothing places. I CHOOSE not to buy a new car. I CHOOSE to buy used when possible. I CHOOSE to not buy certain produce when it's higher price and not in season. I CHOOSE to not upgrade my PC if I don't have issue. The list goes on and on...

You can try to bull all you want that you don't understand keeping up with the Jones' - If you actually spend 5 minutes to study people (or yourself) it will become as clear as day to you. When you start realizing people upgrading their phones for no real reason - you will have an epiphany. When you realize people really didn't need that car upgrade you will have an epiphany. It honestly isn't that complex. You don't NEED a new car, you can survive just fine repairing your current one - or if it's too costly... Buy a used one. You know, like I've been doing for the last 15 years? It isn't complex. It really isn't. Proclaiming it to be complex doesn't make it so.

I think it's important to differentiate between the two basic types of situations:

1. Simple
2. Complex

And then the doability of each situation:

1. Easy
2. Hard

A simple situation can be easy or hard to deal with. For example, exercising is simple - yet it is hard for the majority of people to stick with a consistent exercise program. Walking on a treadmill every day isn't complex at all, but for some reason, a lot of people have difficulty actually doing it on a regular basis. Likewise, personal finance isn't typically an overly-complex situation (pay your bills on time & don't spend more than you earn pretty much keeps you out of trouble), and all of the individual actions themselves are fairly easy, yet it is a difficult situation for a lot of people. In theory, yes, you are right - it honestly isn't hard to do. But in practice, the statistics speak differently: Americans currently hold $830 billion in credit card debt, with an average of over $6,500 per household:

https://www.cardrates.com/advice/credit-card-debt-statistics/

Nearly 25% of Americans have more credit card debt than they do savings:

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/02/02/nearly-25-of-americans-have-more-credit-card-debt.aspx

You, personally, have proactively made the choice to live below your means and to choose lower-cost items, such as used cars, cheaper clothing places, not keeping up with the Jones', etc., and you are reaping the benefits by having a vastly less stressful financial picture in your life. You not only understand the theory of living below your means, but you also practice it, which is where things get difficult for a lot of people, because it's easy not to think about your situation, and even if you do think about it, it's just as easy not to act on that knowledge. Most of us know how to eat healthy foods & do some exercise, yet very few of us have a six-pack of abs that we can show off...not because the situation itself is complex or because the individual actions are hard, but because it's just simply a difficult barrier for a lot of people to overcome.

 

[Kaido]

most people are just trying to get by & live a better life

Thats the keeping up with the jones trap. You have to live like others won't for awhile so you can live like others can't. Me I have no problem living the way others don't want to. I don't need the big house decorated all fancy in a nice neighborhood , don't need the new car, the new phone, expensive clothes/shoes. Its just comes naturally to me which lets me save even on a low income without a budget. What I like is freedom knowing I have my yearly income in the bank and only spend half my income in a year anyway. That gives you something all that fancy crap can't.

The its so hard out here types kill me. Hired one over the summer talking about just need to pay a few bills and get ahead but its so hard out here. Comes back on monday the weekend after his first check going on about buying the whole family jays at the mall. Yup it must be hard out here when your stupid bro.

I don't think the situation is as one-dimensional as just the "keeping up with the Jones'" trap. Case in point: my buddy just moved over from Puerto Rico because his stuff got wrecked in the hurricane & there aren't many job opportunities over there post-storm. He got his family setup over here where I live and is currently working three jobs a week to support them. He has no credit in the American financial system, but needed a car ASAP to get around, so he was forced to take an insane rate where he's currently paying $400 a month for an $8,000 car, just so that he can have something reliable to commute between his three jobs & for life in general. He needed a reliable car quickly and spent his savings on tickets, housing, and a few basics for his family, so it's not like he had time to save up for what he needed because he got wiped out with the storm. He is just trying to get by & wants to live a better life where he doesn't have to pay crazy rates for things like reliable transportation & where he only has to work a single job to support his family. That's not keeping up with the Jones', that's simply trying to survive & improve his situation.

I have a lot of friends in the projects & other difficult areas of town in similar situations. They can't just magically bootstrap themselves out of their situation because that requires money, education, training, and personal financial systems that they haven't yet acquired. Very few of them are constantly buying new stuff all the time, simply because they can't afford to. Meanwhile, yes, there is absolutely a segment of people who spend themselves into oblivion by constantly eating up their budget on upgrade-spending & living paycheck to paycheck or else over-spending themselves into debt, but that's not the only situation out there, by any means. A lot of people are in difficult situations & don't have a clear way out, and their situations make it even harder to gain traction. My buddy who moved here from Puerto Rico is constantly exhausted because he has to work so many menial jobs just to get by; throwing in looking for better-paying jobs, pursuing additional education, and working his way through the American financial system of debit, savings, credit, etc. from scratch is a pretty big set of projects to have to accomplish while being tired all the time. Thus, not everyone is out there mindlessly spending & creating self-imposed difficult situations; some people are legitimately struggling & want to live a better life, and I wouldn't consider that type of situation as "keeping up with the Jones'".

 

[skull]

I don't think the situation is as one-dimensional as just the "keeping up with the Jones'" trap. Case in point: my buddy just moved over from Puerto Rico because his stuff got wrecked in the hurricane & there aren't many job opportunities over there post-storm. He got his family setup over here where I live and is currently working three jobs a week to support them. He has no credit in the American financial system, but needed a car ASAP to get around, so he was forced to take an insane rate where he's currently paying $400 a month for an $8,000 car, just so that he can have something reliable to commute between his three jobs & for life in general. He needed a reliable car quickly and spent his savings on tickets, housing, and a few basics for his family, so it's not like he had time to save up for what he needed because he got wiped out with the storm. He is just trying to get by & wants to live a better life where he doesn't have to pay crazy rates for things like reliable transportation & where he only has to work a single job to support his family. That's not keeping up with the Jones', that's simply trying to survive & improve his situation.

Thats a whole different situation than the average American that spends too much. Unlike most Americans in their situation your buddies working 3 jobs digging himself out of a hole.

I have a lot of friends in the projects & other difficult areas of town in similar situations. They can't just magically bootstrap themselves out of their situation because that requires money, education, training, and personal financial systems that they haven't yet acquired. Very few of them are constantly buying new stuff all the time, simply because they can't afford to. Meanwhile, yes, there is absolutely a segment of people who spend themselves into oblivion by constantly eating up their budget on upgrade-spending & living paycheck to paycheck or else over-spending themselves into debt, but that's not the only situation out there, by any means. A lot of people are in difficult situations & don't have a clear way out, and their situations make it even harder to gain traction. My buddy who moved here from Puerto Rico is constantly exhausted because he has to work so many menial jobs just to get by; throwing in looking for better-paying jobs, pursuing additional education, and working his way through the American financial system of debit, savings, credit, etc. from scratch is a pretty big set of projects to have to accomplish while being tired all the time. Thus, not everyone is out there mindlessly spending & creating self-imposed difficult situations; some people are legitimately struggling & want to live a better life, and I wouldn't consider that type of situation as "keeping up with the Jones'".

I work in low income apartments, most the majority of people I see in the hood blow money on drugs, clothes, tvs or cars. On top of putting no effort in at work or bettering themselves. I've seen "welfare cases" with a bedroom dedicated to clothes and shoes. A lot of it with tags still on it thrown around in a pile like its trash. A good chunk of them have big screen tvs and PS4s. Then you got the ones with expensive cars on loans or the shitty cars with expensive rims and speakers. See it every day.

You are right that people feel like their trapped and get stuck where they are and just go for the little things they know to keep them happy not realizing its what keeps them stuck. After the its hard out here bro got fired. I hired another one of my hard case buddies. What can I say I'm a sucker because I came up from nothing after blowing every penny on heroin when I was younger. This one in pretty much the same situation I started out in no money, on probation and living for free at a buddies. I pick him up for work he wants to stop at a gas station and proceeds to blow $15 on cigs, drinks, snacks and breakfast sandwiches. Then he works like shit no effort, plays on his phone, keeps going out for cig breaks. I buy lunch but he thinks its not enough food so spends another $5 of his money to stuff his face. Asks to stop at the gas station again he goes in buys more cigs, drinks and snacks. Needless to say he didn't last long but I just don't get it how can a guy just put no effort into his life. He begged for the job saying he was finally turning his life around but the guy won't work hard and blows half what he makes in a day smoking and stuffing his fat face.

I on the other hand when I finally decided to get my shit together took a temp job on a house flip and worked so hard the guy offered me part time permanent work doing maintenance on his rentals. Took my first check after working overtime all week and filled up a cart at home depot with tools. Started working for dude during the day for $10/hr using my own tools and the old truck I bought with my tax refund. Took a cleaning job at night and did little handy man jobs inbetween. Almost 9 years later I still work for dude and he pays me $65/hr and everyone else pays $85. If my heroin addicted ass can kick the junk and work his ass off and make it fuck anyone that says lifes too hard. A little over hundred years ago we didn't have cars, electricity, indoor plumbing etc. We live in the richest country in the world in a modern era after technology exploded to make our lives so much easier I can't stand the bitching.

Funny now that a I think about it a tax withholding kept me from blowing every penny on dope and gave me a refund after I got sober to get the truck that started it all. This year I made way more than last year and my quarterly's didn't come close so I owe 4k.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

You are right that people feel like their trapped and get stuck where they are and just go for the little things they know to keep them happy not realizing its what keeps them stuck. After the its hard out here bro got fired. I hired another one of my hard case buddies. What can I say I'm a sucker because I came up from nothing after blowing every penny on heroin when I was younger. This one in pretty much the same situation I started out in no money, on probation and living for free at a buddies. I pick him up for work he wants to stop at a gas station and proceeds to blow $15 on cigs, drinks, snacks and breakfast sandwiches.

Common example: Stupid american workers that say... want a soda at work. So they go to the machine. Stupid people don't even think twice - $2 for a bottle of soda. Treat yourself. You deserve it.

Don't ever do something like think rationally - that $2 bottle you can for $1 if you simply walk a couple corners to the nearest convenience store. On top of that, if you just hold out for ONE day, you can buy a large quantity at the grocery store and pay even less than that per bottle for a 6-pack or a 12-pack.

These thoughts don't go through their brains, because they are simply stupid people. Again - no financial course is going to teach you that $0.50 is less than $2.00 - because that is simply 2nd grade math. This isn't just crackheads and drug addicts - Same goes for the corporate world when it comes to $5 Starbucks coffees daily - inyet they are still wondering why they are so dumb to be paying off $6,000+ on a credit card.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I don't think the situation is as one-dimensional as just the "keeping up with the Jones'" trap. Case in point: my buddy just moved over from Puerto Rico because his stuff got wrecked in the hurricane & there aren't many job opportunities over there post-storm. He got his family setup over here where I live and is currently working three jobs a week to support them.

Why is he working 3 jobs? Are they all minimum wage? Did he rack up a shitload of debt previously? Also what do you mean by "spent his savings on tickets"?

Sounds like he has a family and his spouse doesn't work? In that case - yes - it is blindful ignorance to expect to work 1 job and have enough money for an entire family - especially if you don't have skills that are in high demand.

But you're right - that isn't keeping up with the Jones, so that really isn't the type of family were talking about. That also isn't what the average situation is.

 

[skull]

Common example: Stupid american workers that say... want a soda at work. So they go to the machine. Stupid people don't even think twice - $2 for a bottle of soda. Treat yourself. You deserve it.

Don't ever do something like think rationally - that $2 bottle you can for $1 if you simply walk a couple corners to the nearest convenience store. On top of that, if you just hold out for ONE day, you can buy a large quantity at the grocery store and pay even less than that per bottle for a 6-pack or a 12-pack.

These thoughts don't go through their brains, because they are simply stupid people. Again - no financial course is going to teach you that $0.50 is less than $2.00 - because that is simply 2nd grade math. This isn't just crackheads and drug addicts - Same goes for the corporate world when it comes to $5 Starbucks coffees daily - inyet they are still wondering why they are so dumb to be paying off $6,000+ on a credit card.

The stuffs poison anyway I drink water all day, one of the few things I splurge on is eating out lunch every day. Just skipping the drink has saved me close to 3k over the years. I've worked with a lot of guys that get a 20oz in the morning, a drink with lunch and another 20oz for the afternoon. Thats $1500 a year in sugar water thats terrible for you. More if they do the same on the weekends, which you know they do.

 

[KLin]

You should go back to the Nottery and jerk each other off.

Thanks for the suggestion!!


Http://thenottery.net

 

[Sgt. York]

Yeah, you should go feel some titties!

 

[ImpulsE69]

You and Bezos getting stinking rich through work and risk and enjoying it is great. Your kids and grandkids getting rich because they picked the right parents? Screw that; tax that inheritance. Bezos’ kids can earn it just like Jeff did.


Note: I have no idea if Bezos has kids.

Not to completely derail this thread, but Amazon is bullsh!t. They got government bailouts left and right for years before they actually made a profit. The average person doesn't have that luxury. Ebay is an example of someone actually doing it from the ground up.

On topic - we knew at a very young age not to fall into the spend all your money trap. This mainly started with our house purchase. We walk in and the bank is like "you can buy X price for your house" which at the time was 3X what we were looking at. We actually laughed at them and said - people do that? That's insane. They just looked blankly at us. Fortunately a few years later when both our jobs were shipped to Mexico this was a major reason we didn't lose our house as we were still able to make the payments.

For me, one of the biggest mistakes is people who up and move to New York/ California chasing jobs. There doesn't seem to be anyone who's actually happy there and while the standard of living may seem high, it comes at a price, a high price.

 

[Brainonska511]

What's goof for the goose.....nix the EITC.

Marginal utility and whatnot explains why that is a pretty farscical argument.

For me, one of the biggest mistakes is people who up and move to New York/ California chasing jobs. There doesn't seem to be anyone who's actually happy there and while the standard of living may seem high, it comes at a price, a high price.

I know lots of people who moved to big cities and are very happy with their decisions, including myself. People move to cities because that's where many of the jobs are. If you're in a low skill job, it may not be such a good move, but if you have a college education or better, it can be a very good move overall.

The issue of high housing costs in cities comes from the fight between property owners who are looking to maintain zoning laws that protect their property value at the expense of the rest of society who need housing (increase density and supply, and costs will fall or stabilize).

 

[ImpulsE69]

Marginal utility and whatnot explains why that is a pretty farscical argument.



I know lots of people who moved to big cities and are very happy with their decisions, including myself. People move to cities because that's where many of the jobs are. If you're in a low skill job, it may not be such a good move, but if you have a college education or better, it can be a very good move overall.

The issue of high housing costs in cities comes from the fight between property owners who are looking to maintain zoning laws that protect their property value at the expense of the rest of society who need housing (increase density and supply, and costs will fall or stabilize).

That's the myth. You don't have to move to those places to get high paying college jobs. The pay there may seem higher, but it comes at a higher cost of living which negates a bunch of it.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Common example: Stupid american workers that say... want a soda at work. So they go to the machine. Stupid people don't even think twice - $2 for a bottle of soda. Treat yourself. You deserve it.

Don't ever do something like think rationally - that $2 bottle you can for $1 if you simply walk a couple corners to the nearest convenience store. On top of that, if you just hold out for ONE day, you can buy a large quantity at the grocery store and pay even less than that per bottle for a 6-pack or a 12-pack.

These thoughts don't go through their brains, because they are simply stupid people. Again - no financial course is going to teach you that $0.50 is less than $2.00 - because that is simply 2nd grade math. This isn't just crackheads and drug addicts - Same goes for the corporate world when it comes to $5 Starbucks coffees daily - inyet they are still wondering why they are so dumb to be paying off $6,000+ on a credit card.

I used to be "that guy". I would stop at the local mini-mart (not vending machine), and buy sodas, tea, whatnot. They have/had a bunch of advertised 2-for and unadvertised specials, so I paid less than I could have, but still, $10/day on drinks, crazy expensive.

I discovered "powdered drinks", and for roughly $0.15-$0.40 per bottle, plus the cost of a bottle of water, you can have your own "mixed drink". That's the single-serving ones. I haven't done the math, but I also picked up some "powdered drink canisters", and they are like $5-$8 ea., and each one makes maybe 20-38 qts. I mix them in a 1gal pitcher, put them in the fridge, works for me. I mix them a bit weaker than the side of the canister calls for, maybe a little bit watery, but they have sugar in them, and I'm trying to cut down a bit. As far as I can tell, they have WAY less sugar than sodas like Mt. Dew, and no HFCS, only real sugar (in the canister mixes), and either Aspartame, Sucralose/Splenda, or Stevia/Splenda Naturals as sweeteners in the individual packets.

 

[rh71]

That's the myth. You don't have to move to those places to get high paying college jobs. The pay there may seem higher, but it comes at a higher cost of living which negates a bunch of it.

Life-long NY'er here. The cost of living here is high, but the $17k in annual property taxes is a little dent in the household salary that is $50k+ more. In short, we don't feel it in our earning years. You have a surplus as long as you didn't overbuy your home to live paycheck to paycheck. How it can be tough is the down payment for a house that typically starts at $500k, but a lot of people have strong roots here and have a lot of help to start. Parents pay for college because they have the means here. That also means you have more saved up for the starter house. Also, when you leave and sell that $600k+ appreciated house, you can go anywhere and have a ton left over too. The many that go to NC or FL are "well off" in that way.

I hate that all our tax money goes into corrupt politician or union worker's pockets. In turn we have old infrastructure and very little in the way of modern... anything. I complain all the time. But I don't complain because it's simply "too expensive" to be in NY and the numbers don't work out. They do for many. I can see how housing would be tougher for others moving here from nothing though - it's not in the cost of goods (how much more can milk really cost?).

The irony is I would rather be somewhere else where I'm not paying for crooks to live nice too. I'm jealous of all the up and coming cities with their shiny new buildings (hello Arlington) and services with a smile.