Whoohoo liquidity injections are working!

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Uh, how do you know the system is working if banks aren't borrowing from each other?

Furthermore, with the market in the tank, and consumers getting ready to take another hit in rising gas prices after OPEC's announcement, and the loss of jobs, and the continued fall in housing production and sales, and the psychology of the market downright BLACK how much difference does LIBOR really make? Not much, in my estimation.

Until we start seeing signs of an expansion OUT of this recession, LIBOR has only tangential meaning, IMHO.

-Robert

Do you work at a bank? I am curious, because you seem to think you know an awful lot about them.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

 

[chess9]

My wife worked for a bank for 10 years, then a commodity trading firm/stock firm for years. I'm a trained lawyer, but I've been following these issues for a very long time. I've also done a lot of trading in the past. Almost 48 years of experience is worth a bit, but your mileage may vary.

These are my opinions, not the word of Greenspan. Erm, well....

-Robert

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

Ok do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation? If you're out of your element when it comes to capital markets, feel free to navigate yourself to the IT part of the forums.

Or read this

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

Ok do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation? If you're out of your element when it comes to capital markets, feel free to navigate yourself to the IT part of the forums.

Or read this

Well am I wrong in this? Is this not the reason you continue to constantly post on LIBOR? Please elaborate on your reasonings being that in each LIBOR thread you create, you mention your loans.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

Libor was merely an indicator of whats happening, not the cause of all the problems. You can look at it and see the trends on costs of bridge financing and such. The fact that it's come off the highs is a huge plus and an indicator that the credit markets are unfreezing.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

JFC, you say you're wife works in banking and you follow them so much, then you say I am too close to the trees. Yet, you *STILL* don't fucking understand.

Do you not get that this isn't as much about what money *WILL* be borrowed, but what money *HAS* been borrowed?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

Ok do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation? If you're out of your element when it comes to capital markets, feel free to navigate yourself to the IT part of the forums.

Or read this

Well am I wrong in this? Is this not the reason you continue to constantly post on LIBOR? Please elaborate on your reasonings being that in each LIBOR thread you create, you mention your loans.

Did you read the link? Libor is an indicator how bad the credit markets are - looking at that and treasury yields gives you an idea how much credit is out there.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

Ok do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation? If you're out of your element when it comes to capital markets, feel free to navigate yourself to the IT part of the forums.

Or read this

Well am I wrong in this? Is this not the reason you continue to constantly post on LIBOR? Please elaborate on your reasonings being that in each LIBOR thread you create, you mention your loans.

Did you read the link? Libor is an indicator how bad the credit markets are - looking at that and treasury yields gives you an idea how much credit is out there.

Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

JFC, you say you're wife works in banking and you follow them so much, then you say I am too close to the trees. Yet, you *STILL* don't fucking understand.

Do you not get that this isn't as much about what money *WILL* be borrowed, but what money *HAS* been borrowed?

What has that got to do with LIBOR if the lent money isn't indexed? The amount indexed is relatively small compared to all loans made. I stopped recommending indexed loans to my commercial clients 30 years ago.

Btw, I've had many college courses in undergrad school on banking and finance and economics. I've been listening and reading for a long time too. I'm always open to new ideas. But, if you are going to preach, you have to do so with some clarity. You pop in here with a few inflammatory sentences then leave. Good luck converting the masses with that approach.

-Robert

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

Ok do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation? If you're out of your element when it comes to capital markets, feel free to navigate yourself to the IT part of the forums.

Or read this

Well am I wrong in this? Is this not the reason you continue to constantly post on LIBOR? Please elaborate on your reasonings being that in each LIBOR thread you create, you mention your loans.

Did you read the link? Libor is an indicator how bad the credit markets are - looking at that and treasury yields gives you an idea how much credit is out there.

Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: halik

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Hence the reason you are so enamored with LIBOR. :roll:

Ok do you have anything intelligent to add to the conversation? If you're out of your element when it comes to capital markets, feel free to navigate yourself to the IT part of the forums.

Or read this

Well am I wrong in this? Is this not the reason you continue to constantly post on LIBOR? Please elaborate on your reasonings being that in each LIBOR thread you create, you mention your loans.

Did you read the link? Libor is an indicator how bad the credit markets are - looking at that and treasury yields gives you an idea how much credit is out there.

Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

:laugh:

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

Don't listen to him. He is so chalked full of anger and hatred towards the government that he rarely offers any thing even remotely worth discussing. He originally came into this thread because of his hatred towards things like the bailout and at the end of the day that is all he is going to leave with. More hatred. It is anything but productive.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

JFC, you say you're wife works in banking and you follow them so much, then you say I am too close to the trees. Yet, you *STILL* don't fucking understand.

Do you not get that this isn't as much about what money *WILL* be borrowed, but what money *HAS* been borrowed?

What has that got to do with LIBOR if the lent money isn't indexed? The amount indexed is relatively small compared to all loans made. I stopped recommending indexed loans to my commercial clients 30 years ago.

Btw, I've had many college courses in undergrad school on banking and finance and economics. I've been listening and reading for a long time too. I'm always open to new ideas. But, if you are going to preach, you have to do so with some clarity. You pop in here with a few inflammatory sentences then leave. Good luck converting the masses with that approach.

-Robert

There is about ~9T of libor indexed debt outstanding... U.S. GDP is some 13T

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

Don't listen to him. He is so chalked full of anger and hatred towards the government that he rarely offers any thing even remotely worth discussing. He originally came into this thread because of his hatred towards things like the bailout and at the end of the day that is all he is going to leave with. More hatred. It is anything but productive.

Since you know so much about me from now on I'll just say "go" in PM and you can post for me. Well that would be the case if you were right. So many assumptions. You made another assumption in another thread, what happened to your response? Thought so

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

Don't listen to him. He is so chalked full of anger and hatred towards the government that he rarely offers any thing even remotely worth discussing. He originally came into this thread because of his hatred towards things like the bailout and at the end of the day that is all he is going to leave with. More hatred. It is anything but productive.

I don't have problem arguing loony Ron Paul policies (not particularly difficult), but now he's not even being coherent...

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

Don't listen to him. He is so chalked full of anger and hatred towards the government that he rarely offers any thing even remotely worth discussing. He originally came into this thread because of his hatred towards things like the bailout and at the end of the day that is all he is going to leave with. More hatred. It is anything but productive.

I don't have problem arguing loony Ron Paul policies (not particularly difficult), but now he's not even being coherent...

I can't help you cannot follow along. But oh well.

Do you want me to walk you through it?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

Don't listen to him. He is so chalked full of anger and hatred towards the government that he rarely offers any thing even remotely worth discussing. He originally came into this thread because of his hatred towards things like the bailout and at the end of the day that is all he is going to leave with. More hatred. It is anything but productive.

Since you know so much about me from now on I'll just say "go" in PM and you can post for me. Well that would be the case if you were right. So many assumptions. You made another assumption in another thread, what happened to your response? Thought so

I have no idea which thread you are referring to and if I didn't respond it was most likely because I decided to call it quits for the day and the next day I did not go back to revisit the thread.

Is my assumption wrong? Are you not very angry at the government? All your posts seem to consist of these days is how much you hate the fed and want to dissolve it to almost nothing.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Is this where I say "I stand corrected" or where you say "You're right, I post about LIBOR because of my personal interest"?

huh?

Don't listen to him. He is so chalked full of anger and hatred towards the government that he rarely offers any thing even remotely worth discussing. He originally came into this thread because of his hatred towards things like the bailout and at the end of the day that is all he is going to leave with. More hatred. It is anything but productive.

Since you know so much about me from now on I'll just say "go" in PM and you can post for me. Well that would be the case if you were right. So many assumptions. You made another assumption in another thread, what happened to your response? Thought so

I have no idea which thread you are referring to and if I didn't respond it was most likely because I decided to call it quits for the day and the next day I did not go back to revisit the thread.

Is my assumption wrong? Are you not very angry at the government? All your posts seem to consist of these days is how much you hate the fed and want to dissolve it to almost nothing.

I would love to discuss this with you but I do not want to distract the thread any longer. Would you like to PM me and give me the last time I posted anything about dissolving the FED? I had to bold for emphasis so theres no wiggling out. Go ahead, PM the information showing the bold to be true. I'm sure I'll be waiting for a long time.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

JFC, you say you're wife works in banking and you follow them so much, then you say I am too close to the trees. Yet, you *STILL* don't fucking understand.

Do you not get that this isn't as much about what money *WILL* be borrowed, but what money *HAS* been borrowed?

What has that got to do with LIBOR if the lent money isn't indexed? The amount indexed is relatively small compared to all loans made. I stopped recommending indexed loans to my commercial clients 30 years ago.

Btw, I've had many college courses in undergrad school on banking and finance and economics. I've been listening and reading for a long time too. I'm always open to new ideas. But, if you are going to preach, you have to do so with some clarity. You pop in here with a few inflammatory sentences then leave. Good luck converting the masses with that approach.

-Robert

There is about ~9T of libor indexed debt outstanding... U.S. GDP is some 13T

Not a valid comparison, and you know it! What is ALL outstanding debt? Compare THAT number to indexed debt.

What is this, a high school econ exam?

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Halik:

Btw, credit is loosening a bit, but why? Do you really think it's because of the bailout infusion that hasn't occurred yet?

I doubt it. Monetary policy is more important, and other factors, mentioned above.

-Robert

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ironwing
Yesterday NPR had a story pointing out that while the LIBOR was falling, the banks still weren't lending to each other. Price isn't the issue.

The way i understand it, Libor is the rate for OTC transaction, so if you're a bank in BBA, you can call up other banks and borrow at that rate. Whether banks do or don't isn't really relevant, so long the system works.

Was that the story where they had a whiteboard with a bunch of bank names on it that are looking for money and like 2 banks that were actually offering money? I heard that last weekend, it was from early Oct.

Also keep in mind that most floating rate contracts are indexed to LIBOR. Thus, securitization transactions, mortgages, and many other items, are greatly affected. That there was such a huge TED spread is indicative of a poorly functioning market.

I do think that the rescue plans should have included reps&warrants that they would lend, although it'd be tricky to paper up so we avoid a repeat.

Heh I've got ~38K worth of Grad loans indexed to libor (L+150) and my parents' ARM is indexed to it also.

Oh, well, LIBOR is very important then. LOL. Let's not talk MACRO effects though, ok?

-Robert

When I submit a bill to some of the largest companies in the world for funding costs that are now 2x what they were last month, resulting in hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional costs, what then will happen to that extra expense? How will the company recoup the cost?

How will people who do owe LIBOR indexed loans, economy wide, recoup the extra funding costs?

But wait, I guess all of those micro-economic affected entities have nothing to do with the macro-economic outlook.

I didn't say NOTHING. But the size of indexed loans versus the potential lending market is tiny. I'm not saying LIBOR means nothing, but it certainly isn't a big issue at the moment, at least IMHO.

Reasonable people are going to disagree about this stuff, so I understand your views, and certainly aren't poo-pooing them or Halik's.

-Robert

JFC, you say you're wife works in banking and you follow them so much, then you say I am too close to the trees. Yet, you *STILL* don't fucking understand.

Do you not get that this isn't as much about what money *WILL* be borrowed, but what money *HAS* been borrowed?

What has that got to do with LIBOR if the lent money isn't indexed? The amount indexed is relatively small compared to all loans made. I stopped recommending indexed loans to my commercial clients 30 years ago.

Btw, I've had many college courses in undergrad school on banking and finance and economics. I've been listening and reading for a long time too. I'm always open to new ideas. But, if you are going to preach, you have to do so with some clarity. You pop in here with a few inflammatory sentences then leave. Good luck converting the masses with that approach.

-Robert

There is about ~9T of libor indexed debt outstanding... U.S. GDP is some 13T

Not a valid comparison, and you know it! What is ALL outstanding debt? Compare THAT number to indexed debt.

What is this, a high school econ exam?

-Robert

The second figure is to give you a frame of reference how much money we're talking about. If the index had stayed up there long enough for all of the 9T to reset, shit would hit the fan like no other. The point was to compare it to fixed debt, it's to illustrate how big of a problem would be a large fraction of 9T of debt defaulting.