Whole Foods is not that wholesome

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused
The very link you supply says:

"At the time that the original founders of the current organic industry started growing organically in the late 70's, organic farming was very much a grassroots movement initiated by small family farmers who were committed to reducing the impact of toxic chemicals on humans, animals, and the environment."

This implies real world harm to humans from modern farming practices. A completely unfounded claim. This is the entire basis of "organic foods" movement. There is no other reason for it. If it was simply about higher quality, then any and all means to make it taste better would be employed. They are not.

Well, I see you've updated your reply...

It doesn't imply anything other than the damn obvious; that the chemicals used are, in fact, toxic to animals, including humans. They do not embellish on this as you do in an effort to say "eating inorganic is not safe." All they are saying is that they are committed to not using chemicals on their product.

You are the one creating false arguments to support your cause by taking everything completely out of context and embellishing it.

Oh stop it. Now you are just denying the obvious.

And you have yet to show real world negative health effects in humans from properly used modern farming techniques. That makes the claims unfounded. That makes the fears irrational. That makes the entire "Organic" marketing campaign a scam.

Now you're just reaching because you know your argument is silly.

I never claimed to be able to show negative health effects. I never attempted to. I have absolutely no desire to. This is not the only reason why I buy organics, and I have stated this at least a few times.

I am NOT fearful of inorganics. I make what I feel is a responsible decision, and I do so for quite a number of reasons, but as I've said a dozen times it is partly due to high product quality and the variety available.

You once again reach for a straw man. You keep presenting your OWN arguments attacking the arguments of others that didn't actually exist in the first place.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Tick
Walmart is a far more ethical company that Whole Foods. At least they don't sell a false image and artificially inflate worker wages.

:roll:
No instead they build megaplexes off of tax dollars stifle local markets and small shops until there is no competition, then move off when they finally have to pay the local area money for the area.

Then they also employ people at the lowest wages possible with little to no insurance, and in poorer countries leech off of their small towns with the same reasoning. Give me a break. :roll:

The OP certainly has an agenda posting this. Whole Foods treats its employees fairly and has a good and ethical business operation. Same with Starbucks. All the points that were pointed out are quite trivial in the whole scheme of ethical businesses. Walmart is so much worse.

**EDIT**

And the article fails to mention how Walmart uses much more energy importing the crap that they get from other countries marked up 10X from what they pay for them.

I was wondering how long I'd have to read before someone replied to the comments about the Evil Empire (WalMart). Thank you!

 

[ThePresence]

I'm really enjoying this debate.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
I don't know if you realize this but plant growth is tricky. How a plant grows and how its fruit develop depends on environmental factors. If you change the nutrients a plant has access to, you'll change the flavor of its fruits. Difference in taste could also be due to different genetics. Organic farmers probably don't use the same genetically non-diverse seed that conventional farmers do.

That's all beside the point.. organic agriculture IS better environmentally. Yes, it sometimes requires more land, but it uses the land better. For one thing, pesticides and herbicides are damaging to soil biodiversity- organisms that carry out ecological tasks like nutrient cycling and aereation. It also creates resistant organisms in the same way as antibiotic overuse. It's a lot more than chemicals on your food that can be washed off.

Fertilization is not necessarily bad.. It's just not sustainable, and can cause problems when it gets in rivers and lakes. Ever heard of algal blooms and red tides? Those are the result of fertilizer runoff.

True. Genetics also varies the tastes, and by genetically altering the food to grow and be cultivated sooner, we are just stripping the land of nutrients without allowing it time to replenish, eventually farms make fallow areas so that they can compensate for this, but it gets trickier the more they keep cultivating off seasons.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Vic
Organic foods are a scam on the elitists. When you eat organic, you're not helping the environment, you're flaunting your wealth.
Besides the ridiculousness of using the word "organic" itself (as though other foods were made out of silicon!), the only proof you really need of this is the most common marketing word used in organic food sales: "sustainable." That is exactly the opposite of what organic foods are. If all foods were grown using "organic" techniques, the lowered yields would require that at least half the world starve. In truth, the organic foods movement is the ultimate in technophobia.

BTW, I grow my own vegetable garden every year. THAT is real "organic" and "sustainable."

Yeah, my dad grows fruits. Best dang fruits out there are the ones you grow yourself.

But the organic vegetables and fruits tend to taste better but be more expensive.

Seriously, do a taste test. Get someone to mix up the fruit and strawberries and see if you can figure out which has a better taste. Chances are you will pick the "organic" one.

I don't need to do a taste test. I am well aware of how much better these "organic" foods taste. That premise was implied in my earlier post you quoted. Like I said, you are not helping the environment, you are flaunting your wealth. Surely you aren't that clueless than you don't get this. Hey, more power to you, I just don't like the hypocrisy.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused
The very link you supply says:

"At the time that the original founders of the current organic industry started growing organically in the late 70's, organic farming was very much a grassroots movement initiated by small family farmers who were committed to reducing the impact of toxic chemicals on humans, animals, and the environment."

This implies real world harm to humans from modern farming practices. A completely unfounded claim. This is the entire basis of "organic foods" movement. There is no other reason for it. If it was simply about higher quality, then any and all means to make it taste better would be employed. They are not.

Well, I see you've updated your reply...

It doesn't imply anything other than the damn obvious; that the chemicals used are, in fact, toxic to animals, including humans. They do not embellish on this as you do in an effort to say "eating inorganic is not safe." All they are saying is that they are committed to not using chemicals on their product.

You are the one creating false arguments to support your cause by taking everything completely out of context and embellishing it.

Oh stop it. Now you are just denying the obvious.

And you have yet to show real world negative health effects in humans from properly used modern farming techniques. That makes the claims unfounded. That makes the fears irrational. That makes the entire "Organic" marketing campaign a scam.

Now you're just reaching because you know your argument is silly.

I never claimed to be able to show negative health effects. I never attempted to. I have absolutely no desire to. This is not the only reason why I buy organics, and I have stated this at least a few times.

I am NOT fearful of inorganics. I make what I feel is a responsible decision, and I do so for quite a number of reasons, but as I've said a dozen times it is partly due to high product quality and the variety available.

You once again reach for a straw man. You keep presenting your OWN arguments attacking the arguments of others that didn't actually exist in the first place.

Are you fscking serious?

Read my argument again. It is not against you, but against the organic food movement as a whole and the basis of their marketing practices.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

The bolded part immediately raises warning flags by me that it's either not factual or a scare tactic. I have no problem if they listed potential problems, but stop with the WWII stuff, it kills their argument.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

So you're ok with toxic chemicals in your foods that are sufficiently small in quantity to not knowingly affect mortality rate?

I'm asking a serious question, because that seems to be what you're saying.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Turkish
Whole Foods Market in Alexandria, VA is so ridiculously expensive, unbelievable! I paid something like $18 for a regular portion salad! WTF!

SHENS!

I get salads there all the time, and I walk out packed full of goodness for < $7 🙂

Are you hitting the olive bar a little too much man? Olives get expensive.

nope... never got any olives from there... maybe i get too many tomatos and cucumbers? i don't know... i still think its very pricey..

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

That shows a fundamental problem with understanding what organochlorides and organophosphorous are. The chemicals are retained in the body. You cannot expel them once they are in because they attach to fat cells and other organic material. The only thing that gets rid of a small portion (you can never get rid of all of it <that is why agent orange veterans retain a lot of health problems even today> ) are coal tablets or pure carbon.

The dose does not matter, if the doesages are sustained over time. i.e. - What you ingest daily. Over time, it builds up in the system and causes genetic breakdown, which can cause cancer if your immune system can't expel it.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

So you're ok with toxic chemicals in your foods that are sufficiently small in quantity to not knowingly affect mortality rate?

I'm asking a serious question, because that seems to be what you're saying.

I do it every day. So do you.

Ever take a pain reliever? Ever swallow a vitamin? Ever drink alcohol? Ever walk in the sunshine?

The dose makes the poison. What is beneficial at one dose can be deadly at another.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Amused
I do it every day. So do you.

Ever take a pain reliever? Ever swallow a vitamin? Ever drink alcohol? Ever walk in the sunshine?

The dose makes the poison. What e beneficial at one dose can be deadly at another.

Please read the above post.

 

[Crazee]

Originally posted by: Amused
Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

Do you not understand that you said there is absolutely NO evidence that they are harmful???

Can you also not read further in the same link and see:

Q: How is the government regulating organophosphorus pesticides?

A: In response to the Food Quality Protection Act of 1996, the U.S. EPA began a process of re-registering pesticide active ingredients using a new set of standards that are more protective of public health than those used before 1996. One result is the requirement that combined exposure to pesticides with a common mechanism of toxicity (like the organophosphorus insecticides) be considered. Unfortunately, there is still no mechanism to evaluate the effects of the many simultaneous exposures to different groups of chemicals people experience every day.

The good news is that new restrictions have been imposed on most pesticides evaluated under the law. Some uses (such as residential uses of diazinon and chlorpyrifos) are being phased out altogether because of the unacceptable risks posed to children from their use. The bad news is that the process is slow, so many high-use chemicals have yet to be evaluated. And unfortunately the risks to agricultural workers are often simply overlooked. EPA has also not followed the letter of the law in its work, failing to fully assess the risks from all routes of exposure and failing to include additional safety factors for children that are required under the 1996 law.

Industry?s attempts to delay enforcement of the law were successfully blocked by a lawsuit filed by the Natural Resources Defense Council, Pesticide Action Network, CalPIRG, Breast Cancer Fund, United Farm Workers, and Physicians for Social Responsibility. The settlement of the lawsuit in 2001 puts EPA on a strict timeline to finish the work for many high-use chemicals. The agency will be pressured to make some hard decisions in the next several years as the data come in. If the law is properly implemented, we may see significant new restrictions and reductions in OP pesticide use.

This might help you.

 

[Vic]

BTW, the marketing tag-word "sustainable" was coined for the organic foods industry by uber-marketing guru Clotaire Rapaille.

Do please continue these arguments though. I absolutely love the irony in watching the brainwashed call the brainwashed brainwashed. 🙂

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: Amused
I do it every day. So do you.

Ever take a pain reliever? Ever swallow a vitamin? Ever drink alcohol? Ever walk in the sunshine?

The dose makes the poison. What e beneficial at one dose can be deadly at another.

Please read the above post.

I have read it. Do you know what an unfounded supposition is? Please provide one valid study showing real world harm to humans from these chemicals when used properly in modern farming.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

Do you not understand that you said there is absolutely NO evidence that they are harmful???

Can you also not read further in the same link and see:

Q: How is the government regulating organophosphorus pesticides?

A: In response to the Food Quality Protection Act of 1996, the U.S. EPA began a process of re-registering pesticide active ingredients using a new set of standards that are more protective of public health than those used before 1996. One result is the requirement that combined exposure to pesticides with a common mechanism of toxicity (like the organophosphorus insecticides) be considered. Unfortunately, there is still no mechanism to evaluate the effects of the many simultaneous exposures to different groups of chemicals people experience every day.

The good news is that new restrictions have been imposed on most pesticides evaluated under the law. Some uses (such as residential uses of diazinon and chlorpyrifos) are being phased out altogether because of the unacceptable risks posed to children from their use. The bad news is that the process is slow, so many high-use chemicals have yet to be evaluated. And unfortunately the risks to agricultural workers are often simply overlooked. EPA has also not followed the letter of the law in its work, failing to fully assess the risks from all routes of exposure and failing to include additional safety factors for children that are required under the 1996 law.

Industry?s attempts to delay enforcement of the law were successfully blocked by a lawsuit filed by the Natural Resources Defense Council, Pesticide Action Network, CalPIRG, Breast Cancer Fund, United Farm Workers, and Physicians for Social Responsibility. The settlement of the lawsuit in 2001 puts EPA on a strict timeline to finish the work for many high-use chemicals. The agency will be pressured to make some hard decisions in the next several years as the data come in. If the law is properly implemented, we may see significant new restrictions and reductions in OP pesticide use.

This might help you.

Again, you have yet to show a single valid study showing real world harm to humans when used properly in modern farming. May I suggest you make use of your last link yourself?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: ThePresence

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

The bolded part immediately raises warning flags by me that it's either not factual or a scare tactic. I have no problem if they listed potential problems, but stop with the WWII stuff, it kills their argument.

Heh. Organ transplants were developed in Hitler's holocaust death camps by experimenting on Jewish victims. But that's no reason not to be an organ donor.

Godwin's law FTW!!

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Vic
BTW, the marketing tag-word "sustainable" was coined for the organic foods industry by uber-marketing guru Clotaire Rapaille.

Do please continue these arguments though. I absolutely love the irony in watching the brainwashed call the brainwashed brainwashed. 🙂

That's almost sig material.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

So you're ok with toxic chemicals in your foods that are sufficiently small in quantity to not knowingly affect mortality rate?

I'm asking a serious question, because that seems to be what you're saying.

I do it every day. So do you.

Ever take a pain reliever?

Very, very rarely. I, in general, take no medication unless absolutely necessary. I might swallow 5 pills any given year. This is my personal philosophy (not religious) though and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Ever swallow a vitamin?

Have I? Yes. Do I? No.

Ever drink alcohol?

Absolutely.

Ever walk in the sunshine?

Ok, now you're getting silly again. You just somehow equated sunshine with pesticides. That said, as a responsible adult I limit my sun and alcohol exposure, and I choose to do the same with respect to chemicals, hormones, etc. in my foods. It's really that simple.

 

[Descartes]

Ahh hell, nm.

🙂

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

So you're ok with toxic chemicals in your foods that are sufficiently small in quantity to not knowingly affect mortality rate?

I'm asking a serious question, because that seems to be what you're saying.

I do it every day. So do you.

Ever take a pain reliever?

Very, very rarely. I, in general, take no medication unless absolutely necessary. I might swallow 5 pills any given year. This is my personal philosophy (not religious) though and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Ever swallow a vitamin?

Have I? Yes. Do I? No.

Ever drink alcohol?

Absolutely.

Ever walk in the sunshine?

Ok, now you're getting silly again. You just somehow equated sunshine with pesticides. That said, as a responsible adult I limit my sun and alcohol exposure, and I choose to do the same with respect to chemicals, hormones, etc. in my foods. It's really that simple.

You limit the dosages to safe levels, right? But you do not eleminate them entirely, do you?

Seriously, if you can't see the point here, there is no point in continuing.

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Ahh hell, nm.

🙂

oh COME ON!

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: Vic
Do please continue these arguments though. I absolutely love the irony in watching the brainwashed call the brainwashed brainwashed. 🙂

😛 😉 OrganoChlorides are the most common TOXIC WASTE that industrial plants get in trouble for BTW. 😉 Of course they are all named different names (PCB...), but most of them are organochlorides.

But, yeah, this thread is getting repetitive.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: Crazee

Originally posted by: Amused
You do realize that not one of your links points to, much less is a valid proof of real world harm from the proper use of modern farming chemicals, right?

Reading FTW: Taken from the first link.

Q: How do organophosphorus pesticides affect our health?

A: OPs are chemically similar to the chemical warfare agents originally produced during World War II, and they work by interfering with the nervous system of insects, as well as mammals, birds, and fish. Organophosphorus compounds block production of an enzyme called cholinesterase (ChE), which ensures that the chemical signal that causes a nerve impulse is halted at the appropriate time. Symptoms of exposure include nausea, headaches, twitching, trembling, excessive salivation and tearing, inability to breathe because of paralysis of the diaphragm, convulsions, and at higher doses, death.

OPs are among the most acutely toxic pesticides, with most of these chemicals classified by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency as toxicity class I (highly toxic) or toxicity class II (moderately toxic). In addition, some OP pesticides cause developmental or reproductive harm, some are carcinogenic, and some are known or suspected endocrine disruptors. Detailed information on specific OP pesticides is available at http://www.pesticideinfo.org/. Sample chemical structures are available on Pesticide Action Network's pesticide tutorial page.

Are you unable to see that none of that shows REAL WORLD HARM from properly used farming chemicals? Do you understand the distinction? Do you understand the phrase, "the dose makes the poison"?

So you're ok with toxic chemicals in your foods that are sufficiently small in quantity to not knowingly affect mortality rate?

I'm asking a serious question, because that seems to be what you're saying.

I do it every day. So do you.

Ever take a pain reliever?

Very, very rarely. I, in general, take no medication unless absolutely necessary. I might swallow 5 pills any given year. This is my personal philosophy (not religious) though and has nothing to do with this discussion.

Ever swallow a vitamin?

Have I? Yes. Do I? No.

Ever drink alcohol?

Absolutely.

Ever walk in the sunshine?

Ok, now you're getting silly again. You just somehow equated sunshine with pesticides. That said, as a responsible adult I limit my sun and alcohol exposure, and I choose to do the same with respect to chemicals, hormones, etc. in my foods. It's really that simple.

You limit the dosages to safe levels, right? But you do not eleminate them entirely, do you?

Seriously, if you can't see the point here, there is no point in continuing.

It amazes me that you continue to refuse to open your mind even a crack to see the point staring you in the face.

Sunshine, vitamins, etc are GOOD for you in the right dosages and harmful in excess dosages.

Pesticides (chemicals that kill lifeforms) are not GOOD for you at any dosage and are harmful at any dosage. The difference is how fast they harm you.