Whoa... is Rome better than Game of Thrones?

[DesiPower]

Story in GoT was better in the first 2 or 3 seasons. But Rome was more spectacular.

Also Rome was historical and GoT is fantcy

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Also Rome was historical and GoT is fantcy

ROFL!!!

Rome was "historical" in as much as Rome is a real place and the characters are using the names of real people. Beyond that, Rome is no more historically accurate than Game of Thrones is.

I liked Rome, it was a fun T&A show, but it didn't have nearly the depth, scope or quality of writing that Game of Thrones has. The only things the two shows have in common are copious nudity and the fact that they're on HBO. Otherwise they're not in the same league.

 

[Sonikku]

The show seemed ultra low budget. I remember a next episode teaser that was all like "Caesar is surrounded, it's going to be one huge bigass badass battle" and it ended up being like a blur of two people fighting or something. Very lame.

 

[purbeast0]

yeah rome was awesome. shame it only lasted 2 seasons.

 

[zinfamous]

ROFL!!!

Rome was "historical" in as much as Rome is a real place and the characters are using the names of real people. Beyond that, Rome is no more historically accurate than Game of Thrones is.

There was more drama and invented characters, sure, but the basic history was there, too. it wasn't just Rome + people with the same name. Caesar's movements, the civil war, the responses from Antony and diddling around with Cleopatra were all very much real.

 

[squarecut1]

I've read a lot of good things about this show here on this forum. I plan to watch it sometime

 

[Childs]

I thought the best moment in Rome was

Spoiler

Gaia was dying and Pullo was brushing her hair back and comforting her. Then she confessed to Pullo she killed his first wife, and before she could even finish her confession he calmly strangled her. Then later Vorenus says something like "How is Gaia?", and Pullo just says "It didn't work out."

EDIT: I remembered it a little differently than it actually happened, but here is the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGdN3YI0FSs

Pollo and Vorenus were great characters...like the Roman Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid.

 

[Homerboy]

There are people who haven't seen Rome?
For shame.
Best thing HBO has ever put out (yes, better than Deadwood (not much), Sopranos (WAY better than that show) etc etc.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

There was more drama and invented characters, sure, but the basic history was there, too. it wasn't just Rome + people with the same name. Caesar's movements, the civil war, the responses from Antony and diddling around with Cleopatra were all very much real.

True, they had the general overview sorta right and they checked off a bunch of connect the dots so that they got from point a to point z. It was everything in between the few major links to history that was completely invented.

If Rome was a history of WWII it would go something like:

Germany invades Poland.
-Plucky Poles invent death rays to expel Germans
-Mars attacks Earth
-French Army defeats Martians and then surrenders to Germany
Battle of Britain and the sea war in the North Atlantic
-Brit drones defeat Luftwaffe
-Beavis and Butthead outwit German U-Boats to save the convoy system
-The Titanic sinks the Bismarck
Pearl Harbor
- U.S. Carrier fleet defeat Godzilla and Mothra at Midway
- U.S. island hops across the Pacfic to zero opposition thanks to newly invented teleportation machine
- First Starbucks franchise opens on Iwo Jima
Atomic Bomb - War Over!!

They just hit a couple of key points and everything in between was fabricated.

 

[squarecut1]

There are people who haven't seen Rome?
For shame.
Best thing HBO has ever put out (yes, better than Deadwood (not much), Sopranos (WAY better than that show) etc etc.

I would be very surprised if it is better than The Wire, another HBO show

 

[preslove]

True, they had the general overview sorta right and they checked off a bunch of connect the dots so that they got from point a to point z. It was everything in between the few major links to history that was completely invented.

If Rome was a history of WWII it would go something like:

Germany invades Poland.
-Plucky Poles invent death rays to expel Germans
-Mars attacks Earth
-French Army defeats Martians and then surrenders to Germany
Battle of Britain and the sea war in the North Atlantic
-Brit drones defeat Luftwaffe
-Beavis and Butthead outwit German U-Boats to save the convoy system
-The Titanic sinks the Bismarck
Pearl Harbor
- U.S. Carrier fleet defeat Godzilla and Mothra at Midway
- U.S. island hops across the Pacfic to zero opposition thanks to newly invented teleportation machine
- First Starbucks franchise opens on Iwo Jima
Atomic Bomb - War Over!!

They just hit a couple of key points and everything in between was fabricated.

Wtf are you talking about? Anything invented in Rome simply was not in thethe historical record. There are a ton of gaps in the record, so filling them in with drama is fine. Do You have specific criticisms?

 

[zinfamous]

True, they had the general overview sorta right and they checked off a bunch of connect the dots so that they got from point a to point z. It was everything in between the few major links to history that was completely invented.

If Rome was a history of WWII it would go something like:

Germany invades Poland.
-Plucky Poles invent death rays to expel Germans
-Mars attacks Earth
-French Army defeats Martians and then surrenders to Germany
Battle of Britain and the sea war in the North Atlantic
-Brit drones defeat Luftwaffe
-Beavis and Butthead outwit German U-Boats to save the convoy system
-The Titanic sinks the Bismarck
Pearl Harbor
- U.S. Carrier fleet defeat Godzilla and Mothra at Midway
- U.S. island hops across the Pacfic to zero opposition thanks to newly invented teleportation machine
- First Starbucks franchise opens on Iwo Jima
Atomic Bomb - War Over!!

They just hit a couple of key points and everything in between was fabricated.

I don't know man, there was a lot more truth of the politics in HBO's Rome that is very much historically accurate.

--the grain embargo Egypt was placing on Rome, prompting Caesar to visit and force their agreement with Cleopatra.
--Cleopatra's inner family dynamics were pretty much spot on
--Caesar's feud with Pompeii

I think the main issue with the fabricated details is that Veronus and Pullo were completely invented, and they pretty much serve as the narrators/avatars of this fictionalized historical drama. Naturally, anything relating to them would pretty much be invented, and so there is a lot that is injected by the writers.

That being said, how much real history do we have of how everything went down during this time period? I think there are some pretty good details about some events, but I feel that most of what we know is probably a general outline.

Off the top of my head, I'd say the most egregious inventions would be Pullo screwing Cleopatra and impregnating her to create the "Caeser baby" That's pretty huge, obviously, because it played a very large part throughout the series. I don't actually know if there even was a real son between Caesar and Cleopatra, let alone one fathered by some lowly legionnaire.

 

[Thebobo]

ROFL!!!

Rome was "historical" in as much as Rome is a real place and the characters are using the names of real people. Beyond that, Rome is no more historically accurate than Game of Thrones is.

I

The whole timeline of rome is based on historical events.

Name one real historical character or event in Games of Thrones.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Rome is historically accurate in the same sense that Forrest Gump is historically accurate. In that, sure, these events happened, but you've fictionalized a character (or two) to show up every single step of the way and inadvertently play a major role (because why else are we following them?). Pullo is actually the father of Caesar's bastard child with Cleopatra? Caesar only died because Vorenus gets distracted in the market? It's great drama, but it's not exactly a documentary.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Wtf are you talking about? Anything invented in Rome simply was not in thethe historical record. There are a ton of gaps in the record, so filling them in with drama is fine. Do You have specific criticisms?

A specific criticism like EVERYTHING with Pullo and Vorenus being completely invented? Or is that not specific enough and you want to dissect every line and every scene as being pure fantasy? They were barely mentioned in the historic record and they become the major characters. Anything they said, did, saw, interacted with, influenced or merely breathed on was a fabrication. And they were the main characters. To carry the WWII theme forward, it's like taking a private from Rommels Afrika Korps and a barely remembered Marine SGT from Guadancanal and making them the major protagonists in the history of WWII and claiming it's accurate because the historical record doesn't directly dispute the 99.999999999% of it's that made up. Simply putting them into recognizable situations and having them talk to real people doesn't make anything about their invented story accurate or even plausible.

Every single aspect of Cleopatra was a joke and everything about the depiction of Egypt was pure fantasy.

Atia is completely wrong.

Cato is completely wrong.

etc etc

The big picture started and ended in the right place with the right people standing and the right people dead. Everything in between was made up. It's not historic, it's fantasy in a historically accurate setting.

 

[Thebobo]

We'll true I wasn't claiming it was a documentary but the timeline of the main historical characters was essentially correct but not all thier actions. True the side characters or events are not real but it was fun to watch.

Here is a good video documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h61BZ-O9Wuo

The one thing good about a show like Rome is makes one look for more real historical info.

 

[Childs]

I think the main issue with the fabricated details is that Veronus and Pullo were completely invented, and they pretty much serve as the narrators/avatars of this fictionalized historical drama. Naturally, anything relating to them would pretty much be invented, and so there is a lot that is injected by the writers.

They actually did exist, although they were only mentioned once by Caesar (in Commentarii de Bello Gallico).

 

[zinfamous]

A specific criticism like EVERYTHING with Pullo and Vorenus being completely invented? Or is that not specific enough and you want to dissect every line and every scene as being pure fantasy? They were barely mentioned in the historic record and they become the major characters. Anything they said, did, saw, interacted with, influenced or merely breathed on was a fabrication. And they were the main characters. To carry the WWII theme forward, it's like taking a private from Rommels Afrika Korps and a barely remembered Marine SGT from Guadancanal and making them the major protagonists in the history of WWII and claiming it's accurate because the historical record doesn't directly dispute the 99.999999999% of it's that made up. Simply putting them into recognizable situations and having them talk to real people doesn't make anything about their invented story accurate or even plausible.

Every single aspect of Cleopatra was a joke and everything about the depiction of Egypt was pure fantasy.

Atia is completely wrong.

Cato is completely wrong.

etc etc

The big picture started and ended in the right place with the right people standing and the right people dead. Everything in between was made up. It's not historic, it's fantasy in a historically accurate setting.

That's kind of the point, though. There is very little known about Roman private life, and far less is known about the private lives of the plebs. I think there are only a handful of books out there now, and one very recent that focuses specifically on this.

...that is what makes the show interesting. Specifically, you can say a lot of those events are invented, but the characters of Pullo and Vorenus are drawn from more contemporary research into how Romans actually lived. It's actually unique in terms of popular depictions of Roman society, which is why it was so popular. These great HBO shows do follow a particular formula--making the lives of regular people interesting, or making the lives of larger-than-life people a bit more mundane, more real.

A lot of the Rome series is in the details of how people live and how government works. The things that concern them. The utter fear of leaving one's house at night--something we certainly take for granted today. Little things like that.

Every single aspect of Ceopatra was a joke?

--she certainly murdered her brother to obtain power
--their family had certainly engaged in generations of incest to maintain power
--she was known to be a bit of an insatiably lustful person. At least, that is what those historians wrote--this could certainly be biased from the time, but then you run into issues with revisionism. ....so go with what is more entertaining?
--she was a very powerful woman in charge of one of the most powerful states in the world. She was known to control all manner of men and statepeople to her needs, so you kinda have imagine the type of unique personality she would have, in comparison to her contemporaries.

...and the actress that portrayed her certainly looks more Egyptian than Elizabeth Taylor.

 

[Thebobo]

They actually did exist, although they were only mentioned once by Caesar (in Commentarii de Bello Gallico).

thanks!

Wow - Pretty cool - wiki

Titus Pullo[1] was one of the two Roman centurions of the 11th Legion (Legio XI Claudia) mentioned in the writings of Julius Caesar. The other soldier mentioned was Lucius Vorenus; they appear in Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Book 5, Chapter 44. Pullo and Vorenus were fierce rivals for promotion to primus pilus, the most senior centurion in a legion. Both distinguished themselves in 54 BC when the Nervii attacked the legion under Quintus Cicero in their winter quarters in Nervian territory. In an effort to outdo Vorenus, Pullo charged out of the fortified camp and attacked the enemy, but was soon wounded and surrounded. Vorenus followed and engaged his attackers in hand-to-hand combat, killing one and driving the rest back, but lost his footing and was himself soon surrounded. Pullo in turn rescued Vorenus, and after killing several of the enemy, the pair returned to camp amid applause from their comrades.


Also two characters in an EQ expansion ~ :sneaky:

 

[zinfamous]

They actually did exist, although they were only mentioned once by Caesar (in Commentarii de Bello Gallico).

oh wow...I had no idea.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Edit: better info above

 

[Childs]

thanks!

Wow - Pretty cool - wiki

Titus Pullo[1] was one of the two Roman centurions of the 11th Legion (Legio XI Claudia) mentioned in the writings of Julius Caesar. The other soldier mentioned was Lucius Vorenus; they appear in Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Gallico, Book 5, Chapter 44. Pullo and Vorenus were fierce rivals for promotion to primus pilus, the most senior centurion in a legion. Both distinguished themselves in 54 BC when the Nervii attacked the legion under Quintus Cicero in their winter quarters in Nervian territory. In an effort to outdo Vorenus, Pullo charged out of the fortified camp and attacked the enemy, but was soon wounded and surrounded. Vorenus followed and engaged his attackers in hand-to-hand combat, killing one and driving the rest back, but lost his footing and was himself soon surrounded. Pullo in turn rescued Vorenus, and after killing several of the enemy, the pair returned to camp amid applause from their comrades.


Also two characters in an EQ expansion ~ :sneaky:

I think this was shown in the first episode.

 

[zinfamous]

I think this was shown in the first episode.

I don't recall that happening, but in the second season, Vorenus did intervene on Pullo's trial by combat in the public square--after Pullo dispatched some half a dozen soldiers and was soon after ganged-up on by another dozen.

HBO recently reran the seasons, and I managed to catch maybe 5 or 6 episodes. Otherwise, I don't recall much about them, from ~4 years ago when I watched them.

 

[Childs]

I don't recall that happening, but in the second season, Vorenus did intervene on Pullo's trial by combat in the public square--after Pullo dispatched some half a dozen soldiers and was soon after ganged-up on by another dozen.

HBO recently reran the seasons, and I managed to catch maybe 5 or 6 episodes. Otherwise, I don't recall much about them, from ~4 years ago when I watched them.

I think it was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stolen_Eagle

During the Siege of Alesia in 52 BC, Centurion Lucius Vorenus of the 13th Legion commands his men as Gallic warriors fall on his line. In contrast to the Gauls' chaotic charge, the Roman files fight with precision, until one drunk legionary, Titus Pullo, breaks ranks and charges into the crowd of Gauls. Vorenus angrily orders him back into formation, but Pullo hits him. Later, the assembled soldiers watch as Pullo is flogged and condemned to death for his disorderly conduct.

I remember Pollo charging in, and Vorenus helps him out. I think they become buddies after that. I dunno, I haven't watched in it years. Kinda want to though after all the Rome talk.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I think it was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stolen_Eagle

I remember Pollo charging in, and Vorenus helps him out. I think they become buddies after that. I dunno, I haven't watched in it years. Kinda want to though after all the Rome talk.

That's my remembrance as well. Pullo, totally shitfaced, breaks rank and kills a bunch of people but gets surrounded, Vorenus charges in to rescue his ass, Pullo fights with Vorenus, and then they both get pulled out. Pullo gets sentenced to death but then Vorenus saves him and they traipse off into the forest for a gay adventure, and Pullo is exonerated when they're able to recover the golden eagle.