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Who Won the Debate?

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Who Won the Debate?

  • Joe Biden

  • Paul Ryan


Results are only viewable after voting.

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
76
"Mostly true" is one tick above "half true". Pretty close. I guess they could have rated that statement as "half true". But they did make the point that it was not entirely Obama's doing.

I think Romney's attempt to pin job losses on Obama that he had no control over is more deceptive. Rating it one notch lower seems reasonable to me.
Because you have a bias. I have a bias, too. There's nothing wrong with that - it's natural. Yet the folks at Politifact don't?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,261
68
86
Laughing and smiling at the serious issues facing this country always makes you a winner....
He was laughing at the utterly ridiculous shit coming from Ryan's piehole. I mean, really, lying about Israel and Iran when Israel has said this admin has done more than others. Lying about this bill supposedly supported by a Dem when that Dem voted AGAINST it and has said he has disavowed it.

This guy is a joke.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,145
6,184
136
"Taxes are lower on families than they've been probably in the last 50 years. So I haven't raised taxes."

If you think those are two polar statements, than it's obvious who the dense one is. The second sentence is posed as a result of the first. Crazy how our language works.

You're right - context does seem to matter, doesn't it?
From your own quote of politifact:
... average tax rates are in fact lower than most years in the past five decades ...
The fact is they are lower than they have been in the last 50 years and the fact is that he did not raise taxes. WTF is your problem?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Politifact has been obviously biased for some time. Anyone who claims it is not is a shill.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
0
0
Because you have a bias. I have a bias, too. There's nothing wrong with that - it's natural. Yet the folks at Politifact don't?
They may well have a bias. I haven't read enough to assess.

But I don't think this anecdote proves it one way or the other.

Do you or do you not agree that it is deceptive for Romney to blame Obama for job losses that were underway when he took office based on policies he had nothing to do with?
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
120
106
Laughing and smiling at the serious issues facing this country always makes you a winner....
Biden was laughing and smiling on how Ryan's attempt to conflate, obfuscate, evade, and sympathize weren't working.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
Because you have a bias. I have a bias, too. There's nothing wrong with that - it's natural. Yet the folks at Politifact don't?
From the Wiki: "PolitiFact has been both praised and criticized by independent observers, conservatives, and liberals alike. Conservative bias and liberal bias have been alleged, and criticisms have been made of attempts to fact-check statements that cannot be truly "fact-checked"."

Usually when you're making both sides mad you're doing it right.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
120
106
Politifact has been obviously biased for some time. Anyone who claims it is not is a shill.
yes, we all understand facts are politically biased to the left.

yes we understand that the right thinks more from the heart than from the mind.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,261
68
86
Deficits are created primarily when governments spend too much. Tax cuts aren't the reason for deficits, spending too much is. I'm not assuming anything about the deficit. We could tax at 100% and still spend too much money.

All I am saying is that when you make an economy less fluid by raising taxes less money flows from hand to hand than it otherwise would have.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Deficits are created by a disparity between income AND outflow.

The "less fluid" argument is silly also since the fluid gets taken out one way or another. Who do you think is buying all of the treasuries? Not just the Fed or China or Japan. A lot of the "fluid" comes from the US.

Finally, the single biggest increase in expense has been the military. Ryan and Mitt has pledged they will *INCREASE* military spending. He then says if we cut we'll have the smallest navy since WWI. That's the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard. Having dozens and dozens of cruisers, scores of destroyers and a dozen battleships, among scores of other support and comparing that to a modern navy is just asinine. It's exactly the type of bullshit warhawks love and stuff that is just such a huge lie.

There isn't *ONE* other navy that can field a single aircraft carrier with the same offensive potential as a Nimitz class (or equiv), we have 11.

Yet this idiot thinks that defense is sacrosanct and uses outright lies to bolster that.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
76
From your own quote of politifact:
The fact is they are lower than they have been in the last 50 years and the fact is that he did not raise taxes. WTF is your problem?
Can you not read?

However, the decline in average tax rates was already under way under Bush and the recession helped keep them low.
What he's saying is akin to "The apple is on the ground. So I didn't throw the apple in the air." While the second sentence may or may not be correct, the it is not necessarily a qualifier for the first sentence, especially when you find out that the wind blew the apple off the tree.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Can you not read?



What he's saying is akin to "The apple is on the ground. So I didn't throw the apple in the air." While the second sentence may or may not be correct, the it is not necessarily a qualifier for the first sentence, especially when you find out that the wind blew the apple off the tree.
Add to it that Obama DID raise taxes...
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
76
They may well have a bias. I haven't read enough to assess.

But I don't think this anecdote proves it one way or the other.

Do you or do you not agree that it is deceptive for Romney to blame Obama for job losses that were underway when he took office based on policies he had nothing to do with?
I think that Romney's statement is equally as deceptive as Obama's. Do you disagree?
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
76
From the Wiki: "PolitiFact has been both praised and criticized by independent observers, conservatives, and liberals alike. Conservative bias and liberal bias have been alleged, and criticisms have been made of attempts to fact-check statements that cannot be truly "fact-checked"."

Usually when you're making both sides mad you're doing it right.
Well, you got me there. If Wiki says it, it must be true. Case closed.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,292
120
106
I know it's sad when Hannity is on the radio dismissing all of the polling data because he sees and reads "70 polls" a day

And that these polls are all using old modeling data that is inaccurate

and that he knows in his heart that Romney is winning this thing.

Yes...I know that is astonishing to me too...when I heard it, I said "wow" too

sad.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,145
6,184
136
Can you not read?



What he's saying is akin to "The apple is on the ground. So I didn't throw the apple in the air." While the second sentence may or may not be correct, the it is not necessarily a qualifier for the first sentence, especially when you find out that the wind blew the apple off the tree.
Obama isn't taking credit for the low taxes. Why is this so hard for you to register? Follow the conversation:

DanK: FuzzyBee, you raised taxes.
FuzzyBee: I'm not even in politics. :confused:
DanK: You expect us to believe that taxes are low because of you?

If I had that conversation with you, you'd think I was a fucking nutcase. Congrats on looking like a nutcase.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
The problem is that is not what RYAN is arguing. Ryan argues that by cutting taxes that will increase economic activity which will help make the plan revenue neutral (not add to the deficit).
I don't think I said otherwise.

You were talking about Bush. He lowered taxes and since there was a deficit you inferred that lowering taxes in and of itself was to blame. To which I point out that a deficit isn't evidence of it being caused by a tax cut.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,907
1,056
126
haha...you probably honestly believe the lie you just told, shill!
Ok, we'll rephrase it for you then. Truth and facts are significantly more likely to line up with political leanings held by liberals than by conservatives. This has become especially true with the current Presidential race as Romney and Ryan have lied at a rate statistically unmatched in American Presidential history.

I mean, I won't call myself honest Abe level of truth teller, but I'm not a heavy liar either. I'm 32 years old and I can say with no doubt in my mind that I have told fewer lies in my lifetime than Mitt Romney has told in just televised debates in this election cycle. If you consider flip flops lies (as he had to lie one time or the other there), then he has me beat on a logarithmic scale.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,445
0
0
Well, you got me there. If Wiki says it, it must be true. Case closed.
The fact that a couple of the most partisan Democrats in this forum are getting their panties in a bunch defending Politifact is a pretty important marker.
 

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