Who wants to be a banker?? **UPDATED POLL**
- Thread starter gigapet
- Start date
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
I read it this morning and now again this afternoon.
What do exactly want us to do once we "wake up"? You see, unless you give an better alternative than our current "slumber" we will continue to sleep
CkG
Well if everybody realized these realities there would likely be a revolution overnight............until then i guess the best you can do is educate others of the situation..........
"Those few who can understand the system (check book money and credit) will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on it favors, that there will be little opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear it burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests ": Rothschilds Bros.
"Those few who can understand the system (check book money and credit) will either be so interested in its profits, or so dependent on it favors, that there will be little opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear it burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests ": Rothschilds Bros.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Right, but I still ask what their incentive is to choose to wake up?
I'm not dissagreeing with you gigapet, but to present an idea(link) and just say "wake up" isn't going to garner much discussion unless the linked idea can start that fire(of discussion), and in this case I think you've seen that this link isn't a fire starter as it is a long read and for many, a long time to injest. However if you would have helped the discussion along by pointing what needs to be done and a reason or 2 why - people could read the linked article in some sort of guided context
But anyway - would you really want an overnight revolution? Are you secure enough in you ability to survive on your own, that you would pull through an economic implosion? Better hoard those gold bars
CkG
I guess i wasnt expecting to much discussion just maybe a few "holy crap why have'nt I thought of this before" .
Impeaching the Bush Family Regime and Restoring constitutional law within the next few years is really the only hope we have of stopping the plan of economic slavery from being seen through to completion.
Bartering wasnt that bad of a system I think I could work with it until new currency is printed.
Impeaching the Bush Family Regime and Restoring constitutional law within the next few years is really the only hope we have of stopping the plan of economic slavery from being seen through to completion.
Bartering wasnt that bad of a system I think I could work with it until new currency is printed.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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So... uhh... just how many chickens does it take to make a pig? When you come up with a better system, let me know.
edit: I guess I should confess that I wasn't able to read the article past this point:
edit: I guess I should confess that I wasn't able to read the article past this point:
I don't know where the fsck that dipsh!t is talking about, but that paragraph contains a complete disregard of human history. No such communities existed in barter times (last seen in Europe during the feudal era). The rich had all the land, the landless poor worked those lands as serfs (slaves), and no one gave a flying fsck about anyone's rights or freedoms. You simply didn't have any. Read your freakin' history books before you post more revisionist drivel like this.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Well, now you've done it
Blame Bush - that's sure to get some discussion going...but not on your topic matter And yes - bartering would be fine - but how suppose I pay a doctor fer fixin muh lig, if'n he dun unly want chickens as pahmunt? I dun raze dem - I raze deze here hogs.
CkG
I think your missing the point of the story. Its supposed to be a simplified version of RECENT history not all of human history and its simplified so the unintelligent might be able to grasp the more complex concepts presented. However i guess it is flawed as its simplicity failed to reach your level of understanding.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
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Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Well, now you've done it
And yes - bartering would be fine - but how suppose I pay a doctor fer fixin muh lig, if'n he dun unly want chickens as pahmunt? I dun raze dem - I raze deze here hogs.
CkG
You talk all CADiwumpus like but I seez the yick yick and deze hog as pahmunt.
the fort knox is all full up with geese at the moment.
Michael
Elite member
- Nov 19, 1999
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The main site is such a joke. Very fun reading if you're part of the tin foil brigade. Lots of miracle cure links.
The article itself is silly. Anyone who studies "money" learns right away that it is a "fiction" that depends on the general acceptance of the populace to work. It is an abstract representation of value.
The whole "you can't pay back the extra $5 of interest" arguement is stupid. If $5 is 5 chickens and you took your original $100, you could turn in 505 chickens that you purchased and then bred off of the initial loan you made.
Some businesses will fail or fail to generate enough profits to pay interest. Sounds right to me.
There is nothing to "wake up" over.
Michael
The article itself is silly. Anyone who studies "money" learns right away that it is a "fiction" that depends on the general acceptance of the populace to work. It is an abstract representation of value.
The whole "you can't pay back the extra $5 of interest" arguement is stupid. If $5 is 5 chickens and you took your original $100, you could turn in 505 chickens that you purchased and then bred off of the initial loan you made.
Some businesses will fail or fail to generate enough profits to pay interest. Sounds right to me.
There is nothing to "wake up" over.
Michael
The story you posted is nice, but people are not born into slavery here. At no point is one forced to put their money in banks or borrow money from banks. Banking is not a perfect system, but bartering has many more problems than banking.
You want there to be a revolution but after the banks are overthrown, what system do we switch too? Back to bartering?
Maybe you should read a little bit closer........I dont think your fully understanding the point(s) of the story. Try revising your sentence of 505 chickens makes little or no sense.
Lets try this.....say 100 dollars or whatever you want to call it (gold pieces) was loaned out to 20 people at 5 dollars each. Those people can buy sell and trade for eternity and no matter what there will never be more than 100 dollars available to purchase goods therefore making it impossible to pay back an amount more than the original 100 dollars. Cuz even if one person manages to sell goods and eventually gain all the money in circulation(100) that five dollars interest will still be short.
Vic
Elite Member
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I finished reading the "article." I wouldn't call it so much "simplicity" as arrogant and slanted. Money is not a complex concept, merely abstract. The public merely fools themselves into thinking that it is complex. Personally, I see it as denial. As a "finance lender" (according to the author) myself, I have always found it strange how many of my customers fail to understand even the most simplistic of financial documents.
My point is that our current system, while it can be abused and currently is being abused, is still better than any other system the human race has yet come up with. One area where I will give that author credit is that he correctly saw that welfare schemes are legalized robbery and that those schemes are making the problem worse, not better, but putting us all further in debt to the money system.
How to fix the problem? Simple. End welfare, end social security, end all government deficit spending, and go back to the gold standard.
For starters..........all debt should be forgiven and everybody should be placed back at 0 if they currently have outstanding debts. Secondly......the US gov. issues there own currency based on precious metals not on make believe numbers on a screen. Kennedy and Lincoln both tried this and both were assassinated. Why should the american people bare the burden of interest on money loaned by the fed reserve? They shouldnt.
The money concept isnt the problem. The problem lies in the "fiat" money system. Interest should not be charged on money that never existed. Loaning of money that never existed should not be an option either. Money needs to be issued by the government not private international banking monopolies and it should be backed by goild like it once was. If you read up on the conditions that the income tax act and federal reserve act were passed you can see how shady it is and how clear of a scheme to rob american citizens it is.
Vic
Elite Member
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Finally you and I agree. That is the whole idea of interest.
For example, I sacrifice money that I could have for myself right now by lending it to you for a limited time. In return for my temporary sacrifice, you agree to compensate me. Hence, my interest. To return the compensation, you are required to actual make profitable use of that money, i.e. invest it in a business, etc. that will provide a greater return than the initial loan.
Modern lending has taken the concept a whole step further. A large number of loans are made and securitized into portfolios to distribute risk. Risk comes from the inherit and unavoidable problem that a certain small percentage of all loans made will default, or fail to pay the money back much less the interest. In any other setting, this would be considered theft, but because the money was lent, it's not. In modern loans, a good percentage of the interest a customer pays is used by the lender to cover the cost of defaulted loans. This is one reason why the higher the credit risk, the higher the interest rate.
However, the article is not referring to finance loans but to the basic idea of a central reserve bank (like the Federal Reserve), where anyone who wants money must borrow it (known in the US as the Federal Funds Rate). All money in circulation is the US is borrowed from the Federal Reserve. A dollar bill is, in essense, an I.O.U. (technically a Note) which says that the Federal Reserve owes you, the bearer, the sum total of one dollar. edit: this is the concept known as "fiat" money. For every dollar the Reserve enters into circulation, they currently want $1.0125 (edit: oops $1.0125 or 1.25% interest) dollars back after a years time. The current system of repaying this money is known as "inflation."
Like I said, if you know a better way, let me know. I already stated that we need to go back to the gold standard (the beauty of the gold standard is that it is less subject to inflation). The cancellation of all debts, however, would be disastrous. Most debts are owed to common people, regular investors like the working man with his pension and/or 401(k).
Michael
Elite member
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Gigapet - you're an idiot. Money is a concept. Even if you got pedantic and counted every penny ever issued and tried to make a point about how you couldn't pay the "interest", there is still value in items other than money.
So 5 chickens can be turned in to the bank representing the $5 interest.
Even today, courts allow payment in kind for many cases.
You're also ignoring the government's/bank's ability to print more money. As long as it is balanced with growth in GDP, that doesn't even really impact the value of money already in circulation.
Debt is good, btw. It matches the investment in long-term assets with a long-term liability. There is nothing wrong with interest - it is just the return on an asset (money) being employeed.
The "value" of precious metals is the same as the value of "money". Once you get past the basic supply and demand for gold (used in many industrial/technology applications as well as rings and such), the rest of the "value" is public perception.
Michael
So 5 chickens can be turned in to the bank representing the $5 interest.
Even today, courts allow payment in kind for many cases.
You're also ignoring the government's/bank's ability to print more money. As long as it is balanced with growth in GDP, that doesn't even really impact the value of money already in circulation.
Debt is good, btw. It matches the investment in long-term assets with a long-term liability. There is nothing wrong with interest - it is just the return on an asset (money) being employeed.
The "value" of precious metals is the same as the value of "money". Once you get past the basic supply and demand for gold (used in many industrial/technology applications as well as rings and such), the rest of the "value" is public perception.
Michael
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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I think both mike and vic are missing the fact of the weath is simply created from thin air. Given to corporate lending institutions at extremly low intrest (~2% right now) then loaned out to us at a much higher rate. Free money for all those who take part in the transaction. Pretty sweet. Yes I want to be a commercail bank... But not as sweet as the generator of this fiat money.
A bit flawed, but interesting article nonetheless, and at the very least the author is well versed in rhetoric.
Michael
Elite member
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Banks lose money and go under all the time. You're ignoring the risk that banks take when they lend money:
1) Inflation may make the money they collect in the future worth less than they assumed
2) Borrowers can default
and many, many more.
Take a look at the financial statements of a typical bank. Microsoft has much higher margins than a bank does.
Banks are limited in their growth by the capital they accrue (ignoring M&A and using their stock).
Items like this are both simple and complex. I'm waiting for the typical anti-Jewish comments to come out from Gigapet. Usually the tin foil beanie brigade start blaming the "dirty Jews" for charging interest once they really get rolling.
Michael
1) Inflation may make the money they collect in the future worth less than they assumed
2) Borrowers can default
and many, many more.
Take a look at the financial statements of a typical bank. Microsoft has much higher margins than a bank does.
Banks are limited in their growth by the capital they accrue (ignoring M&A and using their stock).
Items like this are both simple and complex. I'm waiting for the typical anti-Jewish comments to come out from Gigapet. Usually the tin foil beanie brigade start blaming the "dirty Jews" for charging interest once they really get rolling.
Michael
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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micheal, I did'nt realise people blame the jews??? Line I always heard is the federal reserve system was created by Robber barrens such as Carnegies and rockerfellers and managed though thier foundations.... Oh Well. Is it a private bank with governmnet oversight or what?
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