Who takes the loss on a lost usps package?

[moomoo40moo]

Cont. from my other thread here. He shipped on Oct 12th, (he faxed me receipt), via parcel. Receipt says he paid $4.14 for shipping. I paid him $8 EXCLUSIVELY for shipping and handling. It has been almost a month, and he has been in good communication with me, but stays strong that he was not responsible, and I shouldn't get my money back.
My PO said they can't do anything, since he didn't buy DC, but today he said he was going to file a claim for a lost package.
Also, the seller has 100+ all positive feedback, and I have almost 100, all positive. Since this transaction is nearing the 30 day paypal refund dispute thing for not receiving any goods, and he is not going to give me any money at all, and I doubt it is going to be coming in the mail any time soon, I wonder if I should just file a dispute. I am pretty pissed, because I paid top dollar shipping, and got parcel, and now I am out my money, and have no product.

forgot:

From the ebay description:

Shipping insurance
Not offered

 

[RabidMongoose]

I would file a PayPal complaint to get your money back. If I were the seller in this case, I would refund the money to the buyer.

 

[Kelvrick]

I would say seller is responsible. If the package is insured, then its kinda up in the air for me.

I don't know if I believe the buyer should go through making the claim, or the seller should refund the money and go through the claim yet.

Any other opinions on this?

 

[brxndxn]

If you paid him $8 for shipping and he paid $4.14 for shipping, and the $3.86 difference would be enough to cover insurance, then he owes you and you do not owe him. This is unless his terms state that buyer is to request insurance and pay extra for it. Then, as sad as it sounds, it would be your responsibility.

 

[sniperruff]

you paid for shipping and handling, but not insurance.

he doesn't have to give you any money.

good luck

 

[moomoo40moo]

From the ebay description:

Shipping insurance
Not offered

 

[sixone]

Seller is responsible. File a Paypal complaint.

Side note - Shipping & handling is not equal to postage. If you wanted to pay postage only, you should have addressed that before you entered into the transaction. Same for DC and/or insurance.

I hope you get your money back.

 

[dethman]

here on AT the general consensus is that it is the shipper's responsibility to insure and make sure the package gets there. if it's lost it's the shipper's responsibility.

on ebay, it's the other way around apparently.

 

[Kelvrick]

Oh yea, I think ebay/paypal would be on the buyer's side for this, sorry.

He goes and does a claim through paypal, and they're going to ask the seller for proof that he sent the package to him. It doesn't seem like there was any kind of tracking and so he's going to be screwed by ebay/paypal.

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Oh yea, I think ebay/paypal would be on the buyer's side for this, sorry.

He goes and does a claim through paypal, and they're going to ask the seller for proof that he sent the package to him. It doesn't seem like there was any kind of tracking and so he's going to be screwed by ebay/paypal.

If this were an eBay transaction the seller would be at fault because he didn't use an authorized shipper.

 

[ElFenix]

2-509(1)(b) of the uniform commercial code (probably in force in both of your states) states that the risk of loss is on the shipper until the goods are dropped at your location.

 

[CanOWorms]

Personally, I would refund the buyer. If he shipped it and tracking or delivery confirmation said that it was delivered, then I would say that you should take the loss.

 

[jadinolf]

whoops, sorry.

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: RossMAN

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Oh yea, I think ebay/paypal would be on the buyer's side for this, sorry.

He goes and does a claim through paypal, and they're going to ask the seller for proof that he sent the package to him. It doesn't seem like there was any kind of tracking and so he's going to be screwed by ebay/paypal.

If this were an eBay transaction the seller would be at fault because he didn't use an authorized shipper.

So, you're agreeing with me...

At first I thought you were arguing and I had to look at that for a bit.

EDIT: Maybe its because I had that sorry in there for the first sentance that makes it sound like I was siding with the seller and you WERE arguing...

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: RossMAN

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Oh yea, I think ebay/paypal would be on the buyer's side for this, sorry.

He goes and does a claim through paypal, and they're going to ask the seller for proof that he sent the package to him. It doesn't seem like there was any kind of tracking and so he's going to be screwed by ebay/paypal.

If this were an eBay transaction the seller would be at fault because he didn't use an authorized shipper.

So, you're agreeing with me...

At first I thought you were arguing and I had to look at that for a bit.

If I didn't agree with you, you would know it

Yes dumb jack ass I am agreeing with you *slaps you with a large trout*

 

[Kelvrick]

Originally posted by: RossMAN

Originally posted by: Kelvrick

Originally posted by: RossMAN

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
Oh yea, I think ebay/paypal would be on the buyer's side for this, sorry.

He goes and does a claim through paypal, and they're going to ask the seller for proof that he sent the package to him. It doesn't seem like there was any kind of tracking and so he's going to be screwed by ebay/paypal.

If this were an eBay transaction the seller would be at fault because he didn't use an authorized shipper.

So, you're agreeing with me...

At first I thought you were arguing and I had to look at that for a bit.

If I didn't agree with you, you would know it

Yes dumb jack ass I am agreeing with you *slaps you with a large trout*

Ahhh, I'm sorry. I'm at work and we all know how my mind doesn't function when I' mat work.

 

[Yossarian]

Originally posted by: brxndxn
If you paid him $8 for shipping and he paid $4.14 for shipping, and the $3.86 difference would be enough to cover insurance, then he owes you and you do not owe him. This is unless his terms state that buyer is to request insurance and pay extra for it. Then, as sad as it sounds, it would be your responsibility.

that is not true. a "handling" charge does not in any way guarantee insurance.

 

[SludgeFactory]

yeah the seller is at fault. no package tracking = his problem, not yours.

If you've waited as long as you can, you need to act. It may be past this point, but I'd try one more time to tactfully negotiate with him to issue a paypal refund. You're in the right here, you're not responsible for the post office's screwup either, he's the one that didn't follow the rules on tracking/DC and is ultimately responsible for getting the package delivered, it's been X days since you paid for this item and you have nothing to show for it, and you can and will legitimately file a claim on this before the 30 days are up and get the money back if he doesn't want to do it voluntarily. Copy and paste the ebay/paypal terms for him if you have to. Agree on what feedback will be left too, they'll screw you on that if it's not discussed.

But it's very possible he'll be an a-hole about it and refuse to cooperate and drop a neg on you. All you can do is try, good luck

 

[RedPickle]

Classic Case of Free on Board Shipping. You paid for shipping so the seller does not have responsibility of the product after he gives it to the shipping company.

 

[CrazyDe1]

The seller is responsible. Now, if he offered insurance and you declined, you'd be responsible. USPS isn't going to do anything about the claim as he didn't purchase insurance or delivery confirmation. If you file a claim with paypal, he's going to be screwed because he has no proof of delivery to a confirmed address. This is why i require people using paypal to pay for insurance. If I have a tracking # and it never shows delivered and fedex lost it, paypal 100% sides with the buyer. The shipping company will only refund if you bought insurance.

 

[kreb]

Originally posted by: moomoo40moo
Receipt says he paid $4.14 for shipping. I paid him $8 EXCLUSIVELY for shipping and handling.

You DO know that S&H includes handling? Boxes, tape, filler, gas to the post office, time, etc are hardly ever free.. :disgust: I grow tired of hearing arguments over excessive S&H fees. It's getting old people!

Originally posted by: RedPickle
Classic Case of Free on Board Shipping. You paid for shipping so the seller does not have responsibility of the product after he gives it to the shipping company.

Correct. UCC 2-401(2)(a) states that title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment. Seller is NOT at fault. Read up on the law.

 

[PunDogg]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
I would file a PayPal complaint to get your money back. If I were the seller in this case, I would refund the money to the buyer.

i would do that, and yeah as a seller i would refund the money

Dogg

 

[whoiswes]

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
I would say seller is responsible.

me too. the seller should have insured the package - if he didn't, it's his loss, ESPECIALLY since he charged you $8 for something that cost $5 to ship (tape and boxes can be had for free either from the shipper or from old shipments - i don't buy the whole "it costs me $4 just to package your shipment" crap)

file a complaint and try to get your money back. good luck.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: kreb
Correct. UCC 2-401(2)(a) states that title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment. Seller is NOT at fault. Read up on the law.

2-401 covers when title is passed, 2-509 explicitly covers the risk of loss.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: whoiswes

Originally posted by: Kelvrick
I would say seller is responsible.

me too. the seller should have insured the package - if he didn't, it's his loss, ESPECIALLY since he charged you $8 for something that cost $5 to ship (tape and boxes can be had for free either from the shipper or from old shipments - i don't buy the whole "it costs me $4 just to package your shipment" crap)

file a complaint and try to get your money back. good luck.

Why should he have insured the package? Who gives out insurance for free?

Also, those saying if you were the seller you'd refund. How many USPS mistakes would you tolerate and eat a loss on? If the item is 100.00 how many 100.00 are you going to lose and automatically refund if the buyer says he never got it?