who still believes in evolution?

[IGBT]

Adam and Eve...muwhahahah...

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I don't believe in evolution because evolution is a fact. You know facts you don't believe in them. I believe the theory of evolution is the best explanation for the hows and whys of the fact that life evolved, however. The details of evolutionary theory may change with time, but evolution is simply a fact. We are as completely certain of evolution as we are of gravity or Einstein's equations. They have all been proved.

since when did we realize the Earth is not flat? since when did we realized that there are smaller units than atoms? oh and do you realized that in the early 1900's some intelligent people claimed that all that there was to invent has been invented already? is there anything that is total Truth on this world? are you sure Einstein's gravity equation is valid in a black hole? not that we shouldn't respect scientific studies... but you sound like the mojority conservatives in the days when the majority think the Earth was flat

When scientists use the word "fact", we do not mean "everlasting unchangeable truth". Religions is much better suited for that. They mean proven beyond reasonable doubt as so far not falsified. Evolution is a fact in the same sense that gravity is a fact. You are welcome to disprove this fact using the same critera Darwin and Newton did.

 

[MonstaThrilla]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

There is no such thing a s a single "missing link" or transitional fossile between species, the transitions are slow take millions of years on some cases, and therefore many transitional states lie between two species.

that's exactly what I was saying. There cannot be a single missing link. that has to be stages. So far all we have is the single "link". If it takes 1 million years to evolve, it cannot be like the first 100 thousand year it's like this, and the next it suddenly evolve to a unrecognizable form. There has to be fossiles showing very small changes. so far people can say is that they haven't been found. that is lame.

I'm no expert on the subject of evolution, but do you not accept the fossils that have been found of neanderathals and other early species of man? Like the fossils of homo erectus? (huh huh I said erect) I think there have been a few discoveries of non-homo sapiens which show some "missing links". Aren't there also fossils around of early fish and whales and such which show the incremental evolution? Do you not consider those missing links either?

 

[Moonbeam]

mcc, i argued this too many times to be patient. Sorry, maybe somebody else can have a go at it. You've just got things all wrong.

 

[no0b]

F#ck the Creationists

 

[Moonbeam]

One thing. Fossils are tremendously rare. When you see the fossil record it's like blasting a piece of paper with a shot gun from 70 yards and laying it over a porn photo and truing to have an orgasm from what shines through the holes. You see only a tiny fraction of the whole and probably nothing of the hole.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: mooncancook
I want to bring this up because the theory of evolution is taught as the truth in biology textbooks in schools, and it shouldn't be.

As a kid I was fascinated by the theory of evolution and firmly believed in it. but as I started reading more about it from different view points I raised more doubts and questions about it. even the fossiles that evolutionist relies on turn against them. if evolution is true, how can there not be one single transitional animal fossile found? how come we cannot see any evolution in animals today? because they all done evolving? what truth do the evolutionists rely on?

What you don't understand is that evolution is ADAPTATION TO AN ENVIRONMENT and does not necessarily happen to an entire population. Some of our primate ancestors were located in an area where in order to survive they had to evolve. It's just like in Darwin's classic study of the Galapagos Islands. There are several variations of ONE species of turtle. Each variation is on a different island where different food types are available. Some turtles have longer necks to reach higher vegetation, they had to adapt that way or die. Just like a certain species of moth in England during the Industrial Revolution which had always been a light color evolved into a darker, nearly black color in order to adapt it's camouflage to it's more polluted environment. Just like man evolved different features depending on where he lived, so do the other animals. How else do you explain the various races of man? According to your views we were created in God's image right? Then explain to me why there are so many variations in not only skin color but skeletal structures, etc.. as well.


Probably not my best response ever but hey...it's late Friday afternoon....I'm at work trying to get paperwork finished and trying to eat a piece of damn birthday cake.......gotta go now...need punch....

i agree with you that minor "evolution" is possible. just like if someone stretches his limps everyday his limps might grow longer than they normally would. they question with skin color, i think it is against evolution. if you put a white family in Africa, no matter how many generations they live they won't become blacks. the only way is to cross breed them with black then the offsprings might become black. so one may argue evolution can occur through cross breeding. but no matter how you cross bread humans you still end up with humans, you never end up with an ape. the theory that we come from apes which orginally come from bacterii just don't make sense.

Actually they would become dark skinned and as black as any Africa person within about 15,000 - 20,000 years later on down the road. Ever wonder why your skin tans when it is exposed to bright sun light ? It's a defense mechanism to protect you from a highly sun lit skin cancer causing environments like you would encounter in Africa, were you would experience a higher amount of damaging UV radiation. Of course that defense mechanism only goes so far if you are a light skin person. Over time and through many generations though that same defense mechanism will gradually adapt as those who can rapidly tan faster and become darker to protect themselves in such a climate will have a better chance at survival against skin cancer and more then likely continue to breed, passing on their genes. They may not develop the facial features of a "African"person but their skin will change in color to protect them against their environment. Of course African peoples do have the greatest range of physical features and genetic variation because they are the original pool we came from. People outside of Africa are only separated by less then a 1% difference in genetic variation. People of African decent exhibit more then a 1% differrence of genetic variation because they are part of the very large and diverse group that stayed in that geneticly rich pool known as Africa, instead of migrating out to other parts of the world. I could go own but I don't want to shatter the little world you have built up.

 

[mooncancook]

They mean proven beyond reasonable doubt as so far not falsified. Evolution is a fact in the same sense that gravity is a fact.

don't compare evolution to gravity. Gravity can be tested anywhere anytime here on earth. It's totally different from evolution. Gravity is fact, the equation for it is a theory. Evolution is a theory in its entity not a fact.

Aren't there also fossils around of early fish and whales and such which show the incremental evolution?

even evolutionist scientist would not declare those as the 'missing links'.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: MonstaThrilla

Originally posted by: mooncancook

There is no such thing a s a single "missing link" or transitional fossile between species, the transitions are slow take millions of years on some cases, and therefore many transitional states lie between two species.

that's exactly what I was saying. There cannot be a single missing link. that has to be stages. So far all we have is the single "link". If it takes 1 million years to evolve, it cannot be like the first 100 thousand year it's like this, and the next it suddenly evolve to a unrecognizable form. There has to be fossiles showing very small changes. so far people can say is that they haven't been found. that is lame.

I'm no expert on the subject of evolution, but do you not accept the fossils that have been found of neanderathals and other early species of man? Like the fossils of homo erectus? (huh huh I said erect) I think there have been a few discoveries of non-homo sapiens which show some "missing links". Aren't there also fossils around of early fish and whales and such which show the incremental evolution? Do you not consider those missing links either?

Neanderthals were an off shoot of any ealier group which migrated out of Africa but they had no relation to Homo sapiens ( you and me ). They were part of same branch from which we came from but we did not share the same ancestory and evolutionary path as they. In fact we ( Homo sapiens ) ended up replacing them as we exited out of Africa and into the ME, Asia, and Europe, etc....

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Actually they would become dark skinned and a black as any Africa person within about 15,000 - 20,000 years later on down the road. Ever wonder why your skin tans when it is exposed to bright sun light ? It's a defense mechanism to protect you from a highly sun lit skin cancer causing environment like you would encounter in Africa, were you would experience a higher amount of damaging UV radiation. Of course that defense mechanism only goes so far if you are a light skin person. Over time and through many generations though that same defense mechanism will gradually adapt as those who can rapidly tan faster and become darker to protect themselves in such a climate will have a better chance at survival against skin cancer and more then likely continue to breed, passing on their genes. They may not develop the facial features of a "African"person but their skin will change in color to protect them against their environment. Of course African peoples do have the greatest range of physical and genetic variation because they are the original pool we came from. People outside of Africa are only separated by less then a 1% difference in genetic variation. People of African decent exhibit more then a 1% of genetic variation because they were part of the very large and diverse group that stayed in that genetic pool known as Africa, instead of migrating out to other parts of the world. I could go own but I don't want to shatter the little world you have built up.

good reply. our skin cells can react to sunlight and darken. people live in higher altitude are more adaptive to thinner air. evolving to a different species is totally different. the closest thing that can change a species to a different species is through genetic mutation. but as we know, mutation is not beneficial to suvival. The chance of having a beneficial mutation is like closing your eyes and firing your gun and killing Bin ladin

 

[Drift3r]

Black people are not a different species though so I do not understand your point here. That's like saying that you and your sister ( if you have one ) or even your cousin for example are not part of the same family because you don't look exactly alike. Somewhere down the road you both share a common ancestry.

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

There is no such thing a s a single "missing link" or transitional fossile between species, the transitions are slow take millions of years on some cases, and therefore many transitional states lie between two species.

that's exactly what I was saying. There cannot be a single missing link. that has to be stages. So far all we have is the single "link". If it takes 1 million years to evolve, it cannot be like the first 100 thousand year it's like this, and the next it suddenly evolve to a unrecognizable form. There has to be fossiles showing very small changes. so far people can say is that they haven't been found. that is lame.

maybe creation and evolution can be combined... well until we find those fossiles it is a theory with insufficient evidence

There are few "transitional fossile between species" because there are few fossiles and fossiles have end up under a lot of earth making them hard to find. Compound that with the fact there is no such thing as a transitional species. You should go read about the dino with feathers and lamarking theory because you seem to have it confused with evolution.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Actually they would become dark skinned and a black as any Africa person within about 15,000 - 20,000 years later on down the road. Ever wonder why your skin tans when it is exposed to bright sun light ? It's a defense mechanism to protect you from a highly sun lit skin cancer causing environment like you would encounter in Africa, were you would experience a higher amount of damaging UV radiation. Of course that defense mechanism only goes so far if you are a light skin person. Over time and through many generations though that same defense mechanism will gradually adapt as those who can rapidly tan faster and become darker to protect themselves in such a climate will have a better chance at survival against skin cancer and more then likely continue to breed, passing on their genes. They may not develop the facial features of a "African"person but their skin will change in color to protect them against their environment. Of course African peoples do have the greatest range of physical and genetic variation because they are the original pool we came from. People outside of Africa are only separated by less then a 1% difference in genetic variation. People of African decent exhibit more then a 1% of genetic variation because they were part of the very large and diverse group that stayed in that genetic pool known as Africa, instead of migrating out to other parts of the world. I could go own but I don't want to shatter the little world you have built up.

good reply. our skin cells can react to sunlight and darken. people live in higher altitude are more adaptive to thinner air. evolving to a different species is totally different. the closest thing that can change a species to a different species is through genetic mutation. but as we know, mutation is not beneficial to suvival. The chance of having a beneficial mutation is like closing your eyes and firing your gun and killing Bin ladin

Precisely the reason why it is estimated that 99% of the species that have ever existed on Earth are, at this point, extinct. The odds of creating an organism out of mutations and adaptations that will become a viable survivor are one in a googolplex.

Genetic mutation is beneficial to survival, and there are plenty of cases to back it up. Try looking up Darwin's finches or the moths of 19th century England. The reason you seldom are able to see evolution occuring is that it often takes thousands upon thousands of years and thousands upon thousands of "tries."

Seriously, read a textbook or two and bone up on your creationism facts. There are some points to creationism that are worth hearing, but the ones you've attempted to argue are just drivel.

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: Drift3r
Black people are not a different species though so I do not understand your point here. That's like saying that you and your sister ( if you have one ) or even your cousin for example are not part of the same family because you don't look exactly alike. Somewhere down the road you both share a common ancestry.

I beleive we do share a common ancestry, and my ancestry is human, not fish, not a single cell organism, not raptile, not monkey. From an evolutionist view, we had to come from a single cell organism becuase millions and millions of years ago there's no complex living thing on the surface of the earth. If that is true, I think we need to change the theory of evolution to revolution

 

[Spencer278]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Actually they would become dark skinned and a black as any Africa person within about 15,000 - 20,000 years later on down the road. Ever wonder why your skin tans when it is exposed to bright sun light ? It's a defense mechanism to protect you from a highly sun lit skin cancer causing environment like you would encounter in Africa, were you would experience a higher amount of damaging UV radiation. Of course that defense mechanism only goes so far if you are a light skin person. Over time and through many generations though that same defense mechanism will gradually adapt as those who can rapidly tan faster and become darker to protect themselves in such a climate will have a better chance at survival against skin cancer and more then likely continue to breed, passing on their genes. They may not develop the facial features of a "African"person but their skin will change in color to protect them against their environment. Of course African peoples do have the greatest range of physical and genetic variation because they are the original pool we came from. People outside of Africa are only separated by less then a 1% difference in genetic variation. People of African decent exhibit more then a 1% of genetic variation because they were part of the very large and diverse group that stayed in that genetic pool known as Africa, instead of migrating out to other parts of the world. I could go own but I don't want to shatter the little world you have built up.

good reply. our skin cells can react to sunlight and darken. people live in higher altitude are more adaptive to thinner air. evolving to a different species is totally different. the closest thing that can change a species to a different species is through genetic mutation. but as we know, mutation is not beneficial to suvival. The chance of having a beneficial mutation is like closing your eyes and firing your gun and killing Bin ladin

Who is to say what mutation is beneficial, as long as a mutation is pass onto off spring then that adds to the total gene pool. The value of a mutation depends on the envirment and when the enviroment changes is when you have evolution.

 

[mooncancook]

Thanks for all the replies. It keeps me from getting bored to death at work. I'm taking off and this thread should be closing now.

From now on I think I'm goin to start swimming for hours everyday, and pass that on to my offsprings. Maybe after many many generations my offsprings will develop fins and become adaptive to water. by then when the ice on the two poles melted and cover up all the lands, you suckers who stayed in land will be waiting for doom while my offsprings will be enjoying the water. waahaaahaa

j/k.

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: mooncancook
Thanks for all the replies. It keeps me from getting bored to death at work. I'm taking off and this thread should be closing now.

From now on I think I'm goin to start swimming for hours everyday, and pass that on to my offsprings. Maybe after many many generations my offsprings will develop fins and become adaptive to water. by then when the ice on the two poles melted and cover up all the lands, you suckers who stayed in land will be waiting for doom while my offsprings will be enjoying the water. waahaaahaa

j/k.

ok as long as you do it in shark infested waters. This way if your offspring can't swim fast enough to not get eaten they won't be able to pass on thier crappy swiming genes. so over hundreds of thousands of years you will be a great,great,great....grandfather of fishmen. And I bet they will be just a discusted as you are that they evolved from humans. 😀

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: RadioActiveMan666

Originally posted by: mooncancook
Thanks for all the replies. It keeps me from getting bored to death at work. I'm taking off and this thread should be closing now.

From now on I think I'm goin to start swimming for hours everyday, and pass that on to my offsprings. Maybe after many many generations my offsprings will develop fins and become adaptive to water. by then when the ice on the two poles melted and cover up all the lands, you suckers who stayed in land will be waiting for doom while my offsprings will be enjoying the water. waahaaahaa

j/k.

ok as long as you do it in shark infested waters. This way if your offspring can't swim fast enough to not get eaten they won't be able to pass on thier crappy swiming genes. so over hundreds of thousands of years you will be a great,great,great....grandfather of fishmen. And I bet they will be just a discusted as you are that they evolved from humans. 😀

oh darn thanks for reminding me. I need to keep a written record so they won't mistaken that they were evolved from humans not dolphins.

 

[ClueLis]

Mooncancook, you asked (albeit rhetorically) if your being taller than you parents was evolution. The answer is yes, in a way. Say that, for some reason, the conditions of our world changed so that taller people survive better. What happens, then is that the people who are taller are more likely to reproduce and the shorter one are less likely. Tallness becomes more dominant in the species, and we as a whole develop into taller beings. This kind of thing has happened repeatedly throught history, even our forefathers 150 years ago were considerably shorter than we are now.

You also asked about "transitional fossils." The problem is what you describe such fossils as being. A very small percentage of bones survive to the fossil stage, so any "transitional fossil" found is likely to just be called a new speciessince we are unlikely to find a trail of closely matching creatures.

Another problem is that evolution occurs in "jumps." Since evolution is a response to the environment, it usually occurs due to a sharp change. As a result, dramatic evolution can can happen in tens of thousands, not millions, of years. Of course, a fish won't grow legs that fast, but we could go from Erectus to Sapiens in such a period.

One of the examples creationists have used for a long time is the feather. How could a dinosaur suddenly grow full feathers and become a bird? What we are now finding is that many of the bird-hipped dinosaurs we know and love (including T. Rex and Velociraptor) had primative feathers that developed from hair-like folicles (look at a Scienfific American a few months back).

I do suggest you try reading Stephen Jay Gould's Ever Since Darwin, as it does a better job of explaining these ideas than I can.

 

[mooncancook]

One final finding/conclusion: it seems to me that Evolutionists are pretty hostile against Creationists.

 

[konichiwa]

Originally posted by: mooncancook
Thanks for all the replies. It keeps me from getting bored to death at work. I'm taking off and this thread should be closing now.

From now on I think I'm goin to start swimming for hours everyday, and pass that on to my offsprings. Maybe after many many generations my offsprings will develop fins and become adaptive to water. by then when the ice on the two poles melted and cover up all the lands, you suckers who stayed in land will be waiting for doom while my offsprings will be enjoying the water. waahaaahaa

j/k.

Ignoring the fact that you are scampering from this post, I'll reply anyway. I guess the easiest way would be to take your swimming analogy and point out how it doesn't really represent the evolution theory, but how it could.

Say you have a thousand siblings. Or a million. Or 6.~ billion. Or more (think bugs, other animals, etc) There are going to be variations among you, right? Mutation generally creates negligible effects due to all the "junk" DNA and the odds that a mutation is going to create something tangibly different.

But once in a while, it's going to happen. There are examples of species who have mutated very drastically (see my earlier posts). So say one of you mutates and gets flippers. Or gills. Or just the beginning of either of the two. That is what is going to create evolution -- as the ice melts she will be the one who survives, because of her mutation. Her mutation is then passed on to her offspring. Hence, evolution.

Very simplified, I know, but that's the theory and I get the feeling you don't grasp it totally.

 

[Zebo]

mmc- I hope you don't think Evolution and The Thoery of Evolution in anyway contradicts god created life of earth... It's simply the means he choose... If I have some time this weekend I'll try and answer your questions the best I can..But it's going to take some work🙂

 

[Falloutboy]

now on the topic of human evolution. I beleave its pretty much stagnet if not moving backwards. with all are great technology thier is little except the most debilitating mutation or desease that will stop people from breeding. Because of this bad traits do not get removed from the gene pool. Now I don't want to sound like a nut but its my beleaf one of two thing will happen in the next thousand year if we don't blow our self up first.

1. Thier will be so many genitic problems in the gene pool that society will begin to suffer and start to break down.
2. We take our evoltuion into our own hands and gentecally engineer our offspring.

 

[mooncancook]

Originally posted by: Zebo
mmc- I hope you don't think Evolution and The Thoery of Evolution in anyway contradicts god created life of earth... It's simply the means he choose... If I have some time this weekend I'll try and answer your questions the best I can..But it's going to take some work🙂

people believe it or not, and I've said it before, when I started questioning Evolution I wasn't a Creationist at all. There are part of Evolution that makes sense, it's just the part that some single cell organism eventually evolve into every living things here today does not make sense, which include evolutionary "jumps". I'm open to hear from all viewpoints. Also it's a good idea to read all the books/articles about it but I just don't have the time, so i'll appreciate honest replies without prejudices.

 

[ClueLis]

Originally posted by: mooncancook

Originally posted by: Zebo
mmc- I hope you don't think Evolution and The Thoery of Evolution in anyway contradicts god created life of earth... It's simply the means he choose... If I have some time this weekend I'll try and answer your questions the best I can..But it's going to take some work🙂

people believe it or not, and I've said it before, when I started questioning Evolution I wasn't a Creationist at all. There are part of Evolution that makes sense, it's just the part that some single cell organism eventually evolve into every living things here today does not make sense, which include evolutionary "jumps". I'm open to hear from all viewpoints. Also it's a good idea to read all the books/articles about it but I just don't have the time, so i'll appreciate honest replies without prejudices.

Note that it also took about 2 billion years for that to finally happen. That is probably the single most dramatic change in evolution, followed by sexual reproduction, and thus took an extremely long time to happen.