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Who says the rich don't pay enough taxes?

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Uh Actually the Texas Rangers are valued at $350million. Bush sold his stake in the team from $250million after being governer for two years. He hasnt done anything since. Hes living off the interest + his $500,000 yearly salary for being Prez. Im sure his accountents tied his money up in investments that couldnt be taxed till he cashed them out. Dick Cheney on the other hand paid a HUGE amount(I believe somewhere between $5-10million) for the tax year 2000, not sure how much he paid for this past your probably not nearly as much.
 


<< Many receive exempt interest from municipal bonds, records show >>

Is the purchase of Municipal Bonds limited to any one particular income group?
 


<< Ah Socialism/Communism! Problem is it did'nt work!




The countries on this planet that keep on pursuing that type of government have economies in the toilet or worse. What has our economy done over the last twenty years, Sport?

Edit:

"It would be better for the league if the results were closer."

You're on PowerEngineer, how do you go about doing this? >>



Your right communism is a loser becasue theres no incentive. Which is why I would have no taxes till you hit the 100K mark.

Were not doing to well. We owe 5 trillion and someday that will have to be paid back. The intrest on that debt is over 15% of the 1.4 trillion the treasury recieves anually. If we stopped ALL government spending today it would take 7 years to pay it back.

We lie about unemployment numbers; only the people active on the roles are counted and that only lastes for 14 weeks. We don't count perpeually unemployed and people who have given up thier search.

The middle to upper middle class require two incomes to live like one income did 30 years ago.

Our test scores are the worse of any industrial country. Why do you think there are so many foreigners in High Tech?

Complaing about 115 billion the poor get each year is crazy compared to the 400 billion the rich get in corporate welfare since they don't even need it.
 


<< "It would be better for the league if the results were closer."

You're on PowerEngineer, how do you go about doing this? >>



My original point was that it would be better if this happened without having to do anything; perhaps you can agree with me on this.

I don't have any really good ideas on how to "go about doing this". I suppose measures that moved everyone closer to real "equal opportunity" in school/training would be start. Do you have any suggestions?

It seems to me that the greatest danger to this country is the shrinking numbers in the "middle class" and growing disparity between the very rich and the very poor. I would rather see us compromise our principles a bit (even to the point of more wealth distribution) if it is necessary to keep everyone at least marginally supporting our current system of government.
 


<< "Many receive exempt interest from municipal bonds, records show" "Nearly 2,400 of the Americans with the highest incomes paid no federal income taxes in 1993, up from just 85 individuals and couples in 1977, the latest available information from the Internal Revenue Service shows. While the number of Americans who make $200,000 or more grew more than 15-fold from 1977 to 1993, the number of people in that income category who paid no income taxes grew 28-fold, or nearly twice as fast, according to a quarterly statistical bulletin issued by the IRS. The report also shows that 18,000 Americans with high incomes paid less than 5 percent of their income in taxes. And it cast doubt on the effectiveness of the Alternative Minimum Tax, which was designed to ensure that the wealthy paid at least some income taxes. >>



It's a vicious cycle. Rich people want to keep their money, so they hire lobbyists to create loopholes in tax law. They then use those loopholes to avoid paying tax.

The only way around it is a flat tax with no exemptions for anybody, but oh well. That'll never happen. Too many tax lawyers and accountants would go out of business.
 
Discriminate against people because of race? How unfair and evil! Discriminate against people because of sex? How unfair and evil! Discriminate against people based on their ability to earn and amass wealth? Why yes that certainly is the height of "fairness".
 
Wow 20400 people out of 12.5million super rich people paid 0-5% taxes *rolls eyes*. The vast majority of the wealthy DO pay 38-50% of their income in taxes.
 
I don't see a problem with rich people paying more taxes. The more you benefit from a system, the more you owe that system for your gains. And yes, I come from what would be considered a rich family.
 
"Do you have any suggestions?"

This is for Carbonyl too:

Our economy is kicking ass because of our Capitalist, low tax government. There is work and opportunity for everyone that wants it. You don't have to work for "the man" if you don't want to. Cost of living is low, technology is cheap as well as gasoline. Health care is first rate and nobody lives in the kind of poverty seen in third world countries.

Like Xerox Man, I'd prefer a flat tax. That's not going to appease the wealth redistributors, but it's damn fair. My suggestion would be to cut the taxes, regulations and ludicrous jury awards against our businesses. Business is the backbone of this country, not the grunts. Business is beholden to consumers, so flex your muscle that way, not taxation, regulation and litigation.
 


<< Discriminate against people because of race? How unfair and evil! Discriminate against people because of sex? How unfair and evil! Discriminate against people based on their ability to earn and amass wealth? Why yes that certainly is the height of "fairness". >>



It's not more fair; it's appallingly unfair. Why? The rich should pay more taxes than the rest of us, because the rich get more from the government.

Consider defense, for example, which makes up 20% of the budget. Defending the country benefits everyone; but it benefits the rich more, because they have more to defend. It's the same principle as insurance: if you have a bigger house or a fancier car, you pay more to insure it.

Investments in the nation's infrastructure-- transportation, research & development, energy, police subsidies, the courts, etc.-- again are more useful the more you have. The interstates and airports benefit interstate commerce and people who can travel, not ghetto dwellers. Energy is used disproportionately by the rich and by industry.

As for public education, the better public schools are the ones attended by the moderately well off. The very well off, of course, ship their offspring off to private schools. So perhaps they don't benefit from public education? But they do: their companies rely on a well-educated public. If you don't think that's a benefit, go start up an engineering firm, or even a factory, in El Salvador. Or Watts. You'll soon find that low wages don't make up for uneducated workers.

The FDIC and the S&L bailout obviously most benefit investors and large depositors. A neat example: a smooth operator bought a failing S&L for $350 million, then received $2 billion from the government to help resurrect it.

Beyond all this, the federal budget is top-heavy with corporate welfare. Counting tax breaks and expenditures, corporations and the rich snuffle up over $400 billion a year-- compare that to the $1400 billion in total expenditures, or to the $116 billion spent on programs for the poor.

Where's all that money go? There's direct subsidies to agribusiness ($18 billion a year), to export companies, to maritime shippers, and to various industries-- airlines, nuclear power companies, timber companies, mining companies, automakers, drug companies. There's billions of dollars in military waste and fraud. And there's untold billions in tax credits, deductions, and loopholes. Accelerated depreciation alone, for instance, is estimated to cost the Treasury $37 billion a year-- billions more than the mortgage interest deduction. (Which itself benefits the people with the biggest mortgages. But we should encourage home ownership, shouldn't we? Well, Canada has no interest deduction, but has about the same rate of home ownership.)

 
". It's the same principle as insurance: if you have a bigger house or a fancier car, you pay more to insure it."

Wrong! You pay the same percentage of the total value for your premium, perhaps even less.

That "rich guy" does more for the country too! He's the one taking huge chances with HIS money and creating jobs as well as the planes that defend this country, and food to feed us. WTF, maybe we should let them off with no taxes in light of that FACT, eh?

"Accelerated depreciation alone, for instance, is estimated to cost the Treasury $37 billion a year-- billions more than the mortgage interest deduction."

Depreciate what? You mean equipment purchased from other businesses? If that's the incentive needed to get these companies to keep our economy rolling, then I'd suggest we keep doing that! Does it bother you so much that businesses have to spend so much money to make more money? As it is, you only pay tax on profit. You'd have to be a chump to not plow that "profit" back in the company to avoid giving it to the government!
 


<< ". It's the same principle as insurance: if you have a bigger house or a fancier car, you pay more to insure it."

Wrong! You pay the same percentage of the total value for your premium, perhaps even less.

That "rich guy" does more for the country too! He's the one taking huge chances with HIS money and creating jobs as well as the planes that defend this country, and food to feed us. WTF, maybe we should let them off with no taxes in light of that FACT, eh? >>



Once again HE is relting on having an edudated work-force to build his business. A socially responsible market economy is rooted not simply in the altruistic belief that the strong should help the weak, but in the self-interested conviction that the strong won't survive if too many of the weak fall by the wayside. Our wayside is becoming more littered every day, look around some of the larger cities.
 
"...look around some of the larger cities."

The same cities that foreigners come into, without a dime in their pocket, and finally end up starting their own successful small businesses? Those larger cities?


DO THE RIGHT THING by Spike Lee
  • ML points across the street to the Korean fruit and vegetable
    stand.

    ML
    It's a f*cking shame.

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    What is?

    ML
    Sweet Dick Willie.

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    That's my name.

    ML
    Do I have to spell it out?

    COCONUT SID
    Make it plain.

    ML
    OK, but listen up. I'm gonna break
    it down.

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    Let it be broke.

    ML
    Can ya dig it?

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    It's dug.

    CLOSE--ML

    ML
    Look at those Korean motherf*ckers
    across the street. I betcha they
    haven't been a year off da
    motherf*cking boat before they
    opened up their own place.

    CLOSE--COCONUT SID

    COCONUT SID
    It's been about a year.

    CLOSE--ML

    ML
    A motherf*cking year off the
    motherf*cking boat and got a good
    business in our neighborhood
    occupying a building that had been
    boarded up for longer than I care
    to remember and I've been here a
    long time.

    CLOSE--SWEET DICK WILLIE

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    It has been a long time.

    CLOSE--COCONUT SID

    COCONUT SID
    How long?

    CLOSE--ML

    ML
    Too long! Too long. Now for the
    life of me, I haven't been able to
    figger this out. Either dem
    Koreans are geniuses or we Blacks
    are dumb.

    This is truly a stupefying question and all three are silent.
    What is the answer?

    COCONUT SID
    It's gotta be cuz we're Black. No
    other explanation, nobody don't
    want the Black man to be about sh*t.

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    Old excuse.

    ML
    I'll be one happy fool to see us
    have our own business right here.
    Yes, sir. I'd be the first in line
    to spend the little money I got.

    Sweet Dick Willie gets up from his folding chair.

    SWEET DICK WILLIE
    It's Miller time. Let me go give
    these Koreans s'more business.

    ML
    It's a motherf*cking shame.

    COCONUT SID
    Ain't that a bitch...
They have problems all right, but those problems are more related to too many government hand outs than too few!
 
Accelerated depreciation lets companies write off the costs of their machinery and buildings faster than they actually wear out. In practice, that means sharply lower tax bills for corporations and individuals that can take advantage of the tax breaks.

Link
 


<< Accelerated depreciation lets companies write off the costs of their machinery and buildings faster than they actually wear out. In practice, that means sharply lower tax bills for corporations and individuals that can take advantage of the tax breaks. >>


And taxes corporations pay come from? So they can charge me a bit less for their product since they pay a bit less in taxes. I can see how this is an evil thing.
 
"..., that means sharply lower tax bills for corporations and individuals that can take advantage of the tax breaks."

I'm aware of that, but that gives these corporations incentive to PURCHASE that machinery in the first place! That's what keeps our economy rolling, not the Carbonyls of this world buying the occasional PC component or DVD!
 


<< "..., that means sharply lower tax bills for corporations and individuals that can take advantage of the tax breaks."

I'm aware of that, but that gives these corporations incentive to PURCHASE that machinery in the first place! That's what keeps our economy rolling, not the Carbonyls of this world buying the occasional PC component or DVD! >>



NO.

A return to deficit spending, state governments across the nation swimming in red ink and consumer debt spending is what has the economy truckin over the last 10 years. Someday we'll all have to pay it back and it won't be a rosy affiar.
 
I'm sorry, but rich people do not keep our economy going. You could send the top 1 % of rich people to Mars without skipping a beat. They don't do any work, and pay people to make all their decisions for them that require more thought than wiping their asses.

Do you know that Kenny Lay and his chums at Enron protected their retirement money from the creditors while the average worker has to stand in line with the creditors to collect? But this is a good thing because the rich need their money to keep the economy going, right?

 
The thing that won't be a "rosy affiar" soon is our lame socialist social security system bill!

Deficit spending could be held in check by Congress. Sounds like you'd rather keep on spending and pay for it all with more taxes (or fewer tax breaks) on businesses. You're the one who is going to kill the golden goose!
 
I'm sorry, but rich people do not keep our economy going.

Let's hear your opinion of Bill Gates and others like him, while you're at it?

It's the businesses these guys start or fund that put our country where it is. Bothers you, eh?
 
Actually, I would have MORE tax breaks for the worker/small investor. Like I've always said the first 100K per annum would be totally income tax free. After that, it would get VERY graduated.

If we stopped corporate welfare, giveaways, and breaks we could easily balance and actaully pay back the people who invested in SS instead of ripping them off like we do today. Also, I would like to see health insurance and education for every American rather than the paltry 140 Billion we spend today on the poor. It has worked in Sweden since 1934 and it could work here.
 
Man, haven't any of you taken economics at any point in your lives? Going through reading this, I'm laughing reading all of the basic economic mistakes that you guys are making. This debate sounds very very politically biased and does not seem to be backed by anything more than opinion on either side. Other than that, very interesting. 🙂
 


<< >>



This Link is a abomination of facts and personal opinion which leaves many unanswered questions. Not only is it a internet conversation of an ex-pat and his libertarian buddy. It from his personal web site which is political activist in nature (libertarian). Also it fails to address the US staggering Debt and quality/equality of life issues.

Despite being from Forbes, I like what the say in
This Article. And somewhere between what Sweden has and libertarian ideals is where I think a good balance is achived.
 
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