who regrets buying a 4850?

[chizow]

Lmao this thread is hilarious. The OP and those expressing their negative opinions of the 4850 should realize by now there's a ridiculous double standard on these forums with regard to ATI. But at least now you know first-hand, the 4850 was only mediocre compared to the existing G92. Free AA is kinda pointless when you only wanted higher/playable frame rates to begin with.

And with regard to the 8800GT fan, I don't think you can really compare it to the 4850 fan. The 8800GT never got as hot as the 4850 even with the fan at stock speed and was easily adjustable with RivaTuner or even nTune at release. No need for profiles, BIOS flashes, after-market heatsinks etc.

 

[AzN]

LMAO double standard is right. Chizow and his Nvidia campaign. Great.. Fantastic.

 

[taltamir]

well, it doesn't matter how hot it gets as long as it is unstable, which the 8800GT was... but it is true that the 8800GT could have its fan speed increased in software on release.. i used ntune to do it at first.
And the broken powerplay is also an issue...

But the 8800GT temp messup got a lot more attention then this, which is being swept under the rug...

Double standards are a fact of life, as is being called an nvidia fanboy these days... and before someone calls me a fanboy again. Check my signature for two computers running AMD video cards.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: shangshang
Next time when I decide to buy AMD, I will make sure they post the drivers for their hardware on their site first. For those who haven't bought the 4850 yet, don't buy it until AMD releases stable drivers. For those with 8800GT 512mb, don't even think about buying this.

It really just sounds like you have a heat issue, installing an aftermarket cooler should solve the problem. Thus far my 4850 has actually been more stable in Vista x64 than my 8800GT (although it looks like it might be more stable with the newer drivers released in June).

I upgraded from 7800GT to 4870 and stability is the same ie no issues,however IQ quality is better on my Gigabyte 4870 card,getting back on topic I would of tried his card in a different PC,rule out temps and other causes like leftover Nvidia drivers in the OS,could even be a faulty card for all we know,the fact that he has stability issues means something is wrong somewhere and finding the cause is the hard part so he has just has to do the good old fashioned troubleshooting.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Maybe the OP didn't have proper ventilation. I mean, ya, before we had proper ridge vents installed with soffits (195$) I'd be gaming in a room that was 95f on a hot summers day, no joke. And it would stay hot until atleast 2am cause of an improper ridge vent install. Then again, I wasn't running a 4850 but a 1900XTX with an FX60 ....

EDIT: I mean, ventilation in his computer case. But a nice ridge vent with some soffits would really help.

 

[Ryl3x]

Its video cards were talking about here people. Not abortion.

Next thing you know some idiot ATI fan shot some Nvidia fan over FPS.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: taltamir
well, it doesn't matter how hot it gets as long as it is unstable, which the 8800GT was... but it is true that the 8800GT could have its fan speed increased in software on release.. i used ntune to do it at first.
And the broken powerplay is also an issue...

But the 8800GT temp messup got a lot more attention then this, which is being swept under the rug...

Double standards are a fact of life, as is being called an nvidia fanboy these days... and before someone calls me a fanboy again. Check my signature for two computers running AMD video cards.

Honestly I don't recall anyone having overheating issues even at stock speeds. There was just no room for overclocking. I adjusted fan sped to 50% and was able to OC from 650 to 729 without any instability at all.

But ya about the double standards, people here will call you an nvidia fanboy if you have anything negative to say about ATI, but if they do the same apparently its for great justice! LMAO. Case in point is the fact there's no official drivers yet for the 48XX series and barely even a mention of it. If that were Nvidia there'd be at least 3 threads calling for a petition ROFL.

 

[Zillatech]

I'm not saying the 4850 is bad, far from it. But if you already have an 8800GT their's no point in upgrading to the 4850 because that's more of a side step than an upgrade. If you have something slower than a 8800GT, then by all means a 4850 would be perfect

I would recommend waiting for the version with an aftermarket HSF to arrive just like for the 8800GT. And for speedstep fixed bioses to become the norm...

I gave my brother my 8800GTS 512 and went and bought myself a 4850. I had to flash the bios to fix speedstep, then I went and reflashed it to force fan speed up because it was crashing (84c IDLE is too hot... not its 55c idle and 80c load).

I haven't purchased my HD4870 yet but will soon, I'm replacing my 8800GTS 512 too. I am expecting a minor performance boost on average with far better 8xAA performance & better IQ. I like Nvidia drivers better for the layout and functionality but ATI's are not too bad either (I also own a 3850 AGP Card).

The biggest reason I am ditching my 8800GTS 512 is the stuttering issue in UT2004. I have waited 6 months for Nvidia to fix the issue and now I'm done. ATI gets my vote and $$$ now. If I have any problems with my 4870 I'll be sure to post back but I think it will be just fine. I am waiting until the fan/drivers get worked out automatically, plus maybe a 1GB card but I don't expect it to be a long wait at all.

Early adopters of new technology can expect some minor issues, its the nature of tech. I always take the "Wait and see" approach but with the HD48xx series, things seem to be going rather smoothly being only a couple of weeks old.


My Rig:
Intel Q6700 @ (9x333), Zalman 9700LED, ASUS P5E (X38) Motherboard, EVGA 8800GTS (512), 4GB (2x2) DDR2-1000 G.Skill RAM, Seasonic M12 700W Power Supply, SONY/NEC SATA DVD Burner, Lian-li A16B Case w/ Window, 2x150GB WD Raptor ?X? Drives, Sound Blaster X-Fi PCI-E version, Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra Speakers, 22? Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: chizow

Originally posted by: taltamir
well, it doesn't matter how hot it gets as long as it is unstable, which the 8800GT was... but it is true that the 8800GT could have its fan speed increased in software on release.. i used ntune to do it at first.
And the broken powerplay is also an issue...

But the 8800GT temp messup got a lot more attention then this, which is being swept under the rug...

Double standards are a fact of life, as is being called an nvidia fanboy these days... and before someone calls me a fanboy again. Check my signature for two computers running AMD video cards.

Honestly I don't recall anyone having overheating issues even at stock speeds. There was just no room for overclocking. I adjusted fan sped to 50% and was able to OC from 650 to 729 without any instability at all.

But ya about the double standards, people here will call you an nvidia fanboy if you have anything negative to say about ATI, but if they do the same apparently its for great justice! LMAO. Case in point is the fact there's no official drivers yet for the 48XX series and barely even a mention of it. If that were Nvidia there'd be at least 3 threads calling for a petition ROFL.

Hehe well the reason is simple everybody knows AMD/ATI are on monthly updates unlike Nvidia so the wait is a lot shorter with AMD/ATI,if it was Nvidia I hate to think how long we would have to wait for official drivers.
Anyway whats wrong with ones supplied on the CD or the 8.6 hotfix drivers,some people are never happy .

well, it doesn't matter how hot it gets as long as it is unstable, which the 8800GT was... but it is true that the 8800GT could have its fan speed increased in software on release.. i used ntune to do it at first.
And the broken powerplay is also an issue...

However that was broken at first if you was using Vista,took Nvidia awhile to get that working right in Vista,yes I was their guinea pig .

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: taltamir
you are discussing it like an nvidia vs AMD war... this is not an nvidia AMD war zone... this is a case of someone who is unsatisfied with ONE amd product that clearly has serious issues that need resolving.. issues that reoccur in certain specific products for both companies.

He is an unhappy customer, and for a good reason. No need to bash him for that.

I warned people to stay away from the 8800GT until they fixed the fans... I make the same warning about the 4850. And there were other, older products, that needed the same warning.

If you are not going to put aftermarket cooling or modify the fan speed, then this isn't for you. Wait until manufacturers bundle it with 3rd party cooling like they do with the 8800GT.

Please. Its not a war zone. Don't make it out to be something other than what it is. NV has its problems . ATI/AMD certainly have an uphill battle on their collective butts.
But when someone starts spouting ATI IQ isn't = to NV I have to question it. Now all my PCs are O/C but this one. If I gamed in a 92 degreeF room . My O/C systems wouldn't crash cuss I am on water . BUT if I was air cooled I suspect alot of crashes would occur.

This gentlemen reported a problem . With heat. Its understandable . The reviewers were all over it. Just buy a good cooler its that simple. Now as for ATI IQ. and drivers being worse than Nv . That raises a red flag in my book . That weather its a legit problem or just ATI bashing . Surely you cann't dismiss the idea. true or not it must be touched on.

Here what was reported

1) 4850 gets really hot (reviewers covered this) Than it crashes.

2) 4850 <= to a 8800gt. Not shown in any reviews. Did the op get a clean ATI driver install . Is NV dlls still operating on his machine?

3) NVdrivers > ATI drivers . Not likely.

4) NV IQ > ATI IQ. Not likely

5) This is the one that really got me. AMD/ATI in finacial trouble. Will ATI be around in a year . Dam this smells bad.

Had the op just stated that he had a heat problem all would be fine . But he reported much more than that . Now didn't he? He even touched on AMDs fiscal problems . RED FLAG. My advice is RMA that card or just buy NV.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: tanishalfelven

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
How is a E8400@ 3.6GHz causing a CPU bottleneck?!?

And enabling AA on a card that is already chugging in performance?? wouldnt that kill performance even more (and the cards are already at like 20fps)?

what are you getting 20 fps in. which game

Crysis?

 

[imported_lpbman]

I'm pleased with my purchase, other than the comparatively poor Folding@Home work. I was upgrading from a 6600 vanilla, so big bump for me.

 

[woolfe9999]

Originally posted by: taltamir
well, it doesn't matter how hot it gets as long as it is unstable, which the 8800GT was... but it is true that the 8800GT could have its fan speed increased in software on release.. i used ntune to do it at first.
And the broken powerplay is also an issue...

But the 8800GT temp messup got a lot more attention then this, which is being swept under the rug...

Double standards are a fact of life, as is being called an nvidia fanboy these days... and before someone calls me a fanboy again. Check my signature for two computers running AMD video cards.

The temp issue with the new ATI cards has not been "swept under the rug" at all, and I suspect you know this. What I think you're doing here is making an implicit allegation of ATI fanboism while decrying that others would accuse you or anyone else of being a fanboi.

Fact is, there are basically two valid points against these cards, and a lot of hokum. The valid points are that there is indeed a serious heat issue, and the driver issue. Regarding heat, it is 100% valid to point out that the OP is operating under unusually high, in fact unlivable, ambient temperatures. It doesn't mean the issue isn't serious because indeed it is; it does mean that it's always fair to point out when someone is operating in unusual conditions. As for the driver, it's true that there being no "official" driver is a legitimate concern, yet conceptually this is not that different from operating under "beta" Nvidia drivers for months on end with no WHQL - the real issue with drivers is their functionality more than their official status anyhow. Alongside these two valid points, we're getting performance comparisons based on improper methodology and assumptions, and observations about the supposed functionality of the drivers (as opposed to their official status), which are specious.

You seem most interested in emphasizing whatever kernels of validity there are in the criticisms of these products, and ignoring the BS ones as if no one ever spewed BS. That's perfectly fine, but I think the rest of us are entitled to debunk the BS, and if you're supposed to be immune to allegations of fanboism, then so too are those on the other side.

- woolfe

 

[mancunian]

I guess I just got lucky with the 4850, had none of the driver or stability issues people have been talking about. Using the hotfix 8.6 drivers and have had zero problems. Installed an S1 cooler + 140mm fan right at the start as well, so kinda ducked out of all the fan problems too. Found the stock heatsink to be piss poor. Fitting my own cooler and clocking up to 700/1100 was very satisfying.

I went from a 3870 to a 4850, definitely worth it. Faster card and the first card that allowed me to run 8 x AA @ 1680 x 1050. AA was always a performance killer on the 38XX series of cards.

Running it paired with an E7200 @ 3.8, seems like a good combo.

I would imagine a lot of the problems people are having will be solved by newer drivers. But I also agree with those people who are pissed that AMD haven't released these by now, the card's been out long enough. They really need to sort this out.

 

[Hauk]

I love the results I'm seeing from two $150 cards in Crossfire!

Think about it.. for $150 bucks you can have a card that outperforms nearly all previous parts at any price point from both ATI and nVidia.

Yea the stock cooler sucks, but a little innovation goes a long way!

 

[Rhino2]

Originally posted by: mancunian
I guess I just got lucky with the 4850, had none of the driver or stability issues people have been talking about. Using the hotfix 8.6 drivers and have had zero problems. Installed an S1 cooler + 140mm fan right at the start as well, so kinda ducked out of all the fan problems too. Found the stock heatsink to be piss poor. Fitting my own cooler and clocking up to 700/1100 was very satisfying.

I went from a 3870 to a 4850, definitely worth it. Faster card and the first card that allowed me to run 8 x AA @ 1680 x 1050. AA was always a performance killer on the 38XX series of cards.

Running it paired with an E7200 @ 3.8, seems like a good combo.

I would imagine a lot of the problems people are having will be solved by newer drivers. But I also agree with those people who are pissed that AMD haven't released these by now, the card's been out long enough. They really need to sort this out.

I'm not quite sure how "lucky" this is, same situation for me, except I still have the stock heatsink on my card. I did have to search around a bit to find the profile fix, but I wasn't having a huge heat problem even before that, my idle temps were way too high (80c) but it never really went up far from there (load 83-84c). Setting the fan speed to 50% brought this down to 50c idle and 62-64c load.

I can't really comment on the performance gain problems the OP is talking about, seeing as how I went from an X850XT to the 4850.....let's just say my performance increased noticeably.

I'm running Vista Ultimate x64 btw.

 

[mancunian]

Originally posted by: Rhino2

I'm not quite sure how "lucky" this is, same situation for me, except I still have the stock heatsink on my card. I did have to search around a bit to find the profile fix, but I wasn't having a huge heat problem even before that, my idle temps were way too high (80c) but it never really went up far from there (load 83-84c). Setting the fan speed to 50% brought this down to 50c idle and 62-64c load.

I can't really comment on the performance gain problems the OP is talking about, seeing as how I went from an X850XT to the 4850.....let's just say my performance increased noticeably.

I'm running Vista Ultimate x64 btw.

Well if you have still got the stock heatsink then I'd say you're pretty lucky, especially if you've overclocked the card.

I just wasn't comfortable with the temps my card showed with the stock heatsink, the S1 keeps this card at 30c idle and 43c load, which is much more preferable.

Taltamir is right, these early 4850s are only good for those people who are comfortable with flashing and changing heatsinks. I got mine a couple of days before they were officially launched, but after seeing the temperatures, quickly went out and got a new cooler. Haven't needed to flash the card as yet, but might do to get powerplay features and mod to 1.2v.

 

[Toonces]

After his performance in the 9800GTX+ Review Thread, I don't find shangshang's actions here that surprising:

Believe it or not, but AMD/ATI is in deep trouble!! Just when ATI thought they had a complete midrange winner with the 4850, Nvidia struck back virtually overnight with the 9800GTX+. Nobody saw the GTX+ coming! Basically, ATI spent a lot of R&D time and resources in the 4850, only to have Nvidia punch it in the mouth the GTX+ without spending a dime or research. Going 55nm doesnt cost Nvidia a dime.

I don't know how long AMD plans to play this game of trying to out competes Nvidia with lowering prices. Lowering prices has done nothing put pummel their stock. AMD didn't succeed against Intel by playing the lowering price game. What will happen when the GT200 goes 55nm in 3 months? Hmm what's ATI's answer then? But for now, I have to thank ATI for playing this lowering price game, because it'll enable me to get a pair of 9800GTX+ in SLI soon at a price that I would otherwise not be able to afford. 9800GTX+ SLI should last me another 2.5 years. Physx will be a big added value when newer games take advantage of it!

You do realize that Nvdia didn't waste a dime of R&D in the GTX+ right? In the meantime, AMD is deep in debt. Nvidia is spending their R&D money innovation, while keep their opponent at bay with their last gen product. If you're the Nvidia CEO and investors, you would love the situation you're in now. I don't think you realize what you were saying.

July is only a few weeks away. Nvidia can release the GT200 on 55nm next month if they had to. But why would the rush to do this when the BEST Ati has up its sleeve is the 4870 which is nowhere in the ballpark of the GT200. Nvidia ain't dumb to show their hands early. You obviously don't understand. AMD gotta be a bit demoralized though. They originally hoped to release the 4850 at $230. Then went to $199. And now even going as low as $160 AR. All this within a week of release, all due to the GTX+ coming out. Good for the consumers, but bad for the long term health of the company. Take a look at AMD stock lately?? Deep in debt. Can't compete with Intel. Can't compete with Nvidia. AMD employees looking to defect to Intel or Nvidia when the opportunity exists. Stock price is virtually where it was 5 years ago. You do realize that Nvdia didn't waste a dime of R&D to release the GTX+ right?

If you're going to quibble over 20 bux for a better cooler and Physx, then it's your choice. But me, I rather put in half an hour at work than cheap out over 20 bux. Jesh, most people pay $60 to fill their gas for 5 days of work... and you're being a drama queen over 20 bux??? I guess that's your choice.

Case in point is, nobody saw the GTX+ came did they? NV just drop the GTX+ bomb on the 4850 like nothing. Like I said, if NV is forced, they will step up. Now, what does ATI have up their sleeve for the coming 55nm GT200? Oh the sound of cricket chirping.

I really wonder how long AMD can continue this desperate attempt to gain market shares by selling cheap? Certainly, AMD investors are anything but happy about it.

This will change. Havoc has the might of Intel behind it, hence it draws developers just by the sheer size of Intel. Physx, before Nvdia acquired it, was under Ageia, a small company nowhere near the size of Intel. With Nvidia promoting Physx now, you better believe things are gonna change. Nvidia is a well managed ompany, focused, and don't think they acquired Physx to let it rot on the shelves! Microsoft might do this, but not Nvidia. Nvidia acquired Ageai's Physx in Feb 2008, and at the time of acquisition, I recall reading people were saying it would take Nvidia 8-12 month to incorporate Physx into its product. Here are 4 months later in June, Nvida has already officially supported Physx in the 9800 series or higher cards, and even unofficially in the 8800GT/GTS series with a simple hack. Time will tell if Nvidia's vision that Physx will play an important role in visual computing will come true.

2) Now you could tell the difference between 50 and 70 fps?? The mininum framerate required for the human eyes to perceive "smooth" motion is 25 fps. (Hence filming is done mainly between 25-30 fps.). You would need to have a strobe light before your eyes. I would agree that in "sticky, heavy scenes", the higher performance card can make the scene look smoother if the scene is bordering the 23-25 fps, but at 50-70 fps, it's a scientific fact that the human eyes can't distinguish!

man, I really wonder how long AMD can keep selling products at a loss. They have 1.75 billion in cash with a 5.28 billion in debts. NV has 1.65 billion in cash and ZERO debt. I can only attribute the 4850 as a desperate attempt to gain market shares at all cost! I just hope they dont go tits up, because what they are doing can't sit too well with the investors.

AMD Profit Margin (ttm): -49.74% Operating Margin (ttm): -15.94%

NV Profit Margin (ttm): 19.11% Operating Margin (ttm): 20.38%

I'm actually amazed that AMD can keep doing what they're doing. Like I said, NV profit is so huge that unless AMD raise the threat a few nothces, NV is not going to rush it. My point is to show that NV is not in a desperate mode to act when their profits are overwhelming. NV long term strategic is to spend R&D in CUDA, which is beyond video gaming. I'm a bit off topic. Yes, you are way off topic.

Any more shenanigans out of you and you can enjoy a vacation. This is your one warning -ViRGE

 

[Magusigne]

Yup.

Taltamir think someone is biased or am I crazy rite?

 

[lopri]

Does this guy really have a HD 4850?