Who needs a warrant when you've got a hunch?

[PokerGuy]

They're not seizing anything. They're just taking a copy so they can search while you go on your way.

Such searches at a border for physical items make sense only because it's the physical entry/exit point, so you can make the argument that you can keep things in or out, or keep an eye on what is coming in or out. That simply isn't true when it comes to data. There is no physical entry/exit point for data, so "special" rules for border crossings for data serve no logical purpose.

 

[Fern]

Fern,

How can something be constitutional before there is a constitution? That doesn't make sense to me.

When I say it's constitutional I mean the SCOTUS has ruled it do. I.e., searching at the border has been challenged and the SCOTUS upheld it.

If I get some time I'll search and see if I can find the case name and post back.

I mentioned that is has been done since before the Constitution was written and passed because I think it is relevant. I.e., if the Founding Fathers had a problem with it they would have addressed it in the Constitution. I use a 'rule of thumb' that if something was happening back then, unless there's been a change (like amendments outlawing slavery or permitting income tax) it's probably OK under the Constitution now. I.e., if the searches were going on back then it's constitutionally permitted.

Fern

 

[soulcougher73]

Without evidence of a crime, why should data be searched at all? If there is reason to believe there has been a crime committed, then by all means, get a warrant and search away. What logical reason is there to allow searches of electronic data (which is not bound by borders anyway) at a physical border crossing over and above what is otherwise allowed?

For example, if an officer walks up to you and has no reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed, why should that officer be able to search all your electronic data? By what logic should it be different for a border agent?

This.

 

[Nintendesert]

They're not seizing anything. They're just taking a copy so they can search while you go on your way.

While I have a problem with it, I don't know of a better solution.

Fern

If a private citizen makes a copy of someone's intellectual property, that person is a pirate and depending with whom you talk to, a thief. Now, if the Federal government is making copies of people's intellectual property how can that not be considered a seizure? Unless we want to simply call the Federal government copyright infringers and let us sue them for as much as the RIAA/MPAA sues private citizens. :sneaky:

 

[Exterous]

If a private citizen makes a copy of someone's intellectual property, that person is a pirate and depending with whom you talk to, a thief. Now, if the Federal government is making copies of people's intellectual property how can that not be considered a seizure? Unless we want to simply call the Federal government copyright infringers and let us sue them for as much as the RIAA/MPAA sues private citizens. :sneaky:

They still took someones laptop and held it. Seems like that would count as seizing to me unless there is some legal technicality that its only seizing if its held for more than 11 days or something...

 

[Nintendesert]

They still took someones laptop and held it. Seems like that would count as seizing to me unless there is some legal technicality that its only seizing if its held for more than 11 days or something...

Yeah, I'm fairly certain I've never read a law that stipulates how long something must be seized before its considered a seizure. :awe:

 

[Jaskalas]

What does electronic data have to do with a border crossing? It's none of their god damn business.

 

[Nintendesert]

What does electronic data have to do with a border crossing? It's none of their god damn business.

Looking at what the NSA has been doing, why do they even need to do this? Just have the NSA forward along to Customs what the person is bringing in. :\

 

[slag]

I work for an insurance company and have confidential PHI data on my laptop that is protected by password and dongle. By law, they cannot copy or duplicate this information. How does that work if they want access to the data on my laptop but I can't legally give them that access they want?

 

[slag]

Yeah, I'm fairly certain I've never read a law that stipulates how long something must be seized before its considered a seizure. :awe:

If it is taken from you and not returned at your request, to me, that would be considered a seizure of personal property.

 

[Fern]

What does electronic data have to do with a border crossing? It's none of their god damn business.

On my very first border crossing I told the UK authorities something quite similar (but it was before the digital age, they asked me how much money I had), "it's none of your damn business" I told them - I was arrested and locked up.

Fern

 

[halik]

I work for an insurance company and have confidential PHI data on my laptop that is protected by password and dongle. By law, they cannot copy or duplicate this information. How does that work if they want access to the data on my laptop but I can't legally give them that access they want?

That would be a really interesting challenge; probably worth ACLU trying it out.