Who is the greatest pitcher in history of MLB??

[GasX]

My favorites have always been the power pitchers:

Nolan Ryan
Ron Guidry
Steve Carlton
Bob Gibson
Jim Palmer
Roger Clemens

But greatst all-time?

Has to be Christy Matthewson.

Here are a couple of his stats:

Won 20 or more games 13 of 17 pro seasons
Won 30 or more games 4 times
Walked 1.6 batters per nine innings (career)
Averaged a pitch count below 80 for complete games

Who am I not thinking of?

 

[Urinal Mint]

Sandy Koufax
Cy Young
Vida Blue

 

[Electric Amish]

Babe Ruth
"Doc" Gooden
Catfish Hunter


amish

 

[GasX]

Damn Sandy Koufax - definitely on the list.

Babe Ruth pitched 29 consecutive scoreless world series innings - not too shabby.

Both on the short list.



note - Anyone have a Sandy Koufax card? I having been trying to get one for ages...

*edit* - added the scoreless

 

[AaronP]

Satchel Page, though he was more in the Negro Leagues.
Don Larson
Warren Spahn was the best lefty ever. IMO

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

I have to vote for the Texan on the list. Nolan Ryan. Doesn't he hold the most records for a MLB pitcher?

 

[Lvis]

Pedro is the best I've ever watched. Whether he will be one of the best ever, will depend on how long he can keep it up.

He could easily be undefeated this year.

 

[AaronP]

Tim Wakefield

 

[kranky]

It sure as heck isn't Nolan Ryan, notwithstanding his strikeouts and no-hitters. Flashy pitchers get a lot of strikeouts, but great pitchers win. Ryan's career winning percentage of .526 is hardly impressive. The difference between Ryan and Koufax is that Koufax realized fewer strikeouts would mean better control and more wins, and that's when his career really took off. Ryan never did catch on.

I think it's a toss-up between Walter Johnson and Lefty Grove (and I'll concede Mathewson was outstanding as well), and my vote goes to Grove. Grove led the AL in ERA for nine years (no one else ever had more than five), won 20 or more in 11 seasons, and if being a power pitcher matters, he led the AL in strikeouts in his first seven seasons. But the clincher is that he spent five years with the Baltimore (non major league) team, and finally the A's were able to convince Baltimore to sell Grove to them. His major league and Baltimore record combined is 421-179 for a winning percentage of .702. No one in baseball history tops that.

 

[IamDavid]

Where's Randy Johnson?

 

[brxndxn]

NOLAN RYAN is best.

 

[Red Dawn]

Sandy Koufax. There was a 6 or 7 years period were he dominated as no pitcher ever had dominated. He also retired while at the top of his game.

 

[kranky]

You're right, Red, Koufax had some dominating years. Just not enough to qualify as the best of all time.

To dispel the Ryan myth a little more, in the 8 years he even managed to get votes for the Cy Young award (and never won), in only one of those years (1973) did he even get half the votes and that's when he finished second. He never finished that high again. So throughout his career, only one year was he even considered the second-best pitcher in the league.

 

[Mikal]

The "Big Train", Walter Johnson. Lifetime recored of 416 - 279 playing for the Washington Senators. (1907- 1927)

His team had a winning percentage of .460 while his was .599.

3508 k's including over 300 twice.

12: 20 win seasons including 10 in a row.

2 : 30 win seasons with a high of 36.

Lifetime ERA was 2.89

Christy and Johnson were considered the top two for many years...

 

[Double Trouble]

Hmmm.... I'd have to throw in "Three Finger" Brown, and maybe perhaps Bob Feller as all time greats as well.

Lets not forget Greg Maddux... whether you like him or not, he's been the dominant pitcher of his era (by any stats category).

Wins and winning percentage, to me, means very little. Any shmo could pitch for the '27 Yankees and win 25 games. What about the great pitchers that pitched for bad teams? Should they be punished because the rest of their team sucked? What about the pitchers that pitched with bad "D" behind them? Is it their fault the team loses when they allow 5 unearned runs?

No way, ERA is the best measure, especially when measured against the relative ERA of the rest of the league. If the rest of the league is averaging an ERA of 5.00 , and a pitcher has an ERA of 1.43, that's way more impressive than a pitcher that has a 1.43 in an era when the average for the league is 2.34.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[KingHam]

It's unreal to think that Bob Gibson had an ERA of .69 for an entire year.

KingHam

 

[kag]

Nolan Ryan!!!

Was Babe Ruth pitching ?!?!?! The Bambino !??!?!?!?!?!

 

[Mikal]

<< Nolan Ryan!!!

Was Babe Ruth pitching ?!?!?! The Bambino !??!?!?!?!?! >>




Why, yes, youngen, the Babe was an awesome pitcher for the Red Sox before playing the outfield full-time. You don't remember?

 

[kranky]

KingHam, Bob Gibson's best ERA was 1.12 in 1968.

tagej, you're right that ERA is the best measure. That's the reason I chose Grove! He pitched his whole career in hitters' parks, too. Walt led the league in ERA 5 times, Grove 9. That's one way to compare people across eras. I'd say Grove and Johnson are the two best of all-time, and there are good arguments for Walt being number 1. I'm sympathetic to pitchers being on bad teams, and I see your point about the '27 Yanks, but you can't pick out one year. Grove did it for an entire career. And Grove led the A's to the Series in '29, '30, and '31, stopping the Yanks during that same era you mentioned.

 

[classy]

From yesteryear Sandy Koufax
From today Greg Maddux
Maddux is going into the twilight of his career but these two put up numbers so dominate its scary.

Two others are Steve Carlton and Tom Seaver.

 

[Shmorq]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Greg Maddux yet. Sure, he's not flashy, but he dominated like no other in the 90's! Check out his unbelievable numbers in a time when the offense exploded.

[Hmmm.. classy posted Maddux a minute before me...)

 

[kami]

Nolan Ryan!

/me has his autograph

 

[Red Dawn]

<< You're right, Red, Koufax had some dominating years. Just not enough to qualify as the best of all time. >>

Well how about the Best pitcher of the Modern Era. Another Great Pitcher was Satchel Page. Personally I think the pitchers of the Modern age were head and shoulders better than the pitchers on the early 20th Century

 

[Shmorq]

<< Well how about the Best pitcher of the Modern Era. Another Great Pitcher was Satchel Page. Personally I think the pitchers of the Modern age were head and shoulders better than the pitchers on the early 20th Century >>

Of course since the game is forever growing and athletes generally improve generation after generation in nearly all sports. So I think the measure of greatness should always be based on how much the player dominated their peers of their respective era.

 

[blues008]

It seems a lot of you love The Ryan Express, but he's not the greatest ever.

Modern Day:

Pedro Martinez
big gap
big gap
big gap
big gap
Tom Glavine
Roger Clemens (Sox lost Game 6 of the World Series because of his 'blister')
Greg Maddux
Randy Johnson
Kevin Brown

Before 1970
Bob Gibson (Sox lost game 7 of 1967 World Series because of him 2-1)
Tom Seaver
Sandy Koufax


Before 1950
Lefty Grove
Babe Ruth (There is no curse)
Cy Young

It's unfair to compare pitchers of this water downed era of homer run baseball to the dead ball era of before.

But, if Pedro keeps it up for another few years, then he will have been the greatest because of the differential between his ERA and the League ERA. Also, his K:BB ratio is stunning. Absolutely stunning.

Go Sox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

blues