Who is doing GPU for nintendo's 3DS?

[Phynaz]

Yes but you cannot compare the two as iPhone gaming is not true gaming and nothing like real games on PSP/DS and people buy iPhones for things other than gaming.

Not true gaming?

So now there are games that aren't real games?

Please.

 

[ViRGE]

I do have a family member with an XL that is always talking about his age.... he's 4, but age is very important to him. Honestly, it had never once crossed my mind that it was aimed at elderly people- my kids loved playing with my nephews XL and were trying to talk me into getting them one(not a chance with the 3DS so close). Bigger screens- better for them.

Obviously there will be exceptions, but Nintendo's market position for the DSi XL has always been for the one market they feel they have yet to sufficiently tap with the previous DS units: old people. Nintendo was already more or less at market saturation with younger audiences.

45.7mm, 45.7mm, 12.7mm- 10,663mm cubed vs 26,523 or 258% volume for 350% power. I'm not saying they need to go to that extreme, but clearly performance for a given area has shown some rather impressive gains(as far as batteries go at least). Also, the level of power that gave us was rather absurd using a 15 hour guideline(Tegra2 + an entire DS with power to spare).

You also have to figure in battery casing in to that (which I can't measure). Battery casing as a percentage of total battery volume is going to decrease with battery size (specifically thickness). I strongly suspect that's the reason the power capacity grows faster than the volume. I can't find any batteries in any of my devices of similar size that have a significantly improved battery capacity.

Is that a joke? As a gamer myself and a parent to several other gamers- the iPhone model roll out reminded me very much of Nintendo's handheld strategy. DS, DS Lite, DSi, DS XL- it isn't like Nintendo doesn't do almost exactly what Apple is doing with the iPhone models. Also, when have you had an internal battery fail on you? My GBA SP is still working fine.

Nintendo releases DS refreshes, but they never touch the core platform. A DS from 2004 still plays brand new games as they are released today, and the DSi is no better at playing those games than the original DS. When Apple releases a new iPod Touch, they put in more RAM, a faster processor, a new GPU, etc. Nintendo on the other hand doesn't do that - even the aberration that is the DSi only got more RAM and a faster CPU, and that's not even available for DS software.

The same can't be said about Apple, who won't even be deploying iOS 4 to the first generation iPod Touch, and it's not even 3 years old. Compared to the DS, it's definitely not a long-haul device.

Oh, you are one of those type. If you would have used that phrase earlier it would have helped explain things. I can't argue with the word of Jobs, only point out the reality that I live in. I have never once seen someone go shopping for a phone and buy a MP3 player instead, I've never even heard of it happening. I know a lot of people who used their smartphone to replace their MP3 player, but that is because of additional abilities, not reduced.

Regardless of how people come to buy an iPhone or an iPod Touch, the fact of the matter is that they run 99% of the same software. The iPhone is for people who can get phone contracts (adults), and the iPod Touch is for people that can't (kids). To be honest I'm really not sure how else to explain this. Apple can't hit as large of a market with 1 device: if it's a phone kids can't buy it (at best their parents buy them cheap phones or they go post-paid), and if it's a mobile computer without phone capabilities then adults won't buy it because someone else can offer them 1 consolidated device.

The iPhone and the iPod Touch are the same device, redressed to meet the pricing flexibilities and perceptions of the target markets.

Yikes. So far total developer payout for every app available is just over $1Billion(according to Jobs yesterday)- far less then Pokemon alone has made on the DS. That isn't gaming revenue- that is every single app. Let's try and be realistic here, Apple is in no way a serious factor in the gaming market at all.

Per current revenue I agree. However they're doing something right now that Sony and Nintendo aren't: growing. The DS and PSP markets are saturated, and Nintendo has had a very real problem with developers bailing on the DS for the iPhone for greener pastures. Both Nintendo and Sony have cited Apple as the biggest emerging threat to their mobile gaming businesses.

 

[Medu]

It would only need something on par with an ATI 3650 to match the xbox/ps3. I think people forget that the GPU's in those systems are not very impressive.

It would need to be twice as fast as an ATi 3650.

1900XT~=Xbox 360 power
2900XT(320SP) = 1.5*1900XT
=>320SP = 1.5*Xbox SP

So using existing ATi SP's you would need about 240 SP to get Xbox360 performance. Now while this might not be an impressive GPU it certainly uses A LOT more power than current mobile GPU's(probably by a factor of 50).

Surely if it isn't an Nvidia GPU then it will be a PowerVR GPU- who else is there? ATi got out of the mobile market and PowerVR have been mobile GPU leader for years.
My guess is a random ARM CPU core + custom PowerVR GPU all put together on a SoC by NEC.

 

[Fox5]

It would need to be twice as fast as an ATi 3650.

1900XT~=Xbox 360 power
2900XT(320SP) = 1.5*1900XT
=>320SP = 1.5*Xbox SP

So using existing ATi SP's you would need about 240 SP to get Xbox360 performance. Now while this might not be an impressive GPU it certainly uses A LOT more power than current mobile GPU's(probably by a factor of 50).

Surely if it isn't an Nvidia GPU then it will be a PowerVR GPU- who else is there? ATi got out of the mobile market and PowerVR have been mobile GPU leader for years.
My guess is a random ARM CPU core + custom PowerVR GPU all put together on a SoC by NEC.

The top end snapdragon soc (not in any device yet) seems at least comparable to tegra 2 and the top end powervr socs (also not in any devices yet).

 

[Medu]

The top end snapdragon soc (not in any device yet) seems at least comparable to tegra 2 and the top end powervr socs (also not in any devices yet).

I guess that is possible. Qualcomm GPU's have been ATi and Qualcomm bought the mobile part of ATi in the last year or so. Nintendo do have a relationship with ATi going back to the Gamecube. It would be similar to when they got ArtX to design the Cube's GPU but ArtX bought by ATi near the end of the project.

Either way I don't see it been anywhere near PS3/Xbox360 power levels.

 

[jiffylube1024]

The iPhone platform (iPhone + iPod Touch) has sold over 100mil units. The PSP is at 58mil units. Sony fell behind the iPhone platform back around the middle of 2009, IIRC.

Why not throw in iPad and while we are at it why not every Mac ever sold to the total? I have never come remotely close to understanding why people lump a MP3 player in with a phone total, are we going to lump ZuneHD in with Kin? Doesn't make any sense at all to me.

LOL, to disqualify the iPod Touch from the "iPhone" gaming platform is like saying that the DS market is only the DS fat and Lite, but not the DSi or XL because they have cameras!

The iPod Touch runs the same OS, has the same processor and touch screen and has the same interface to connect to the Apple App store. If you buy games for your iPod Touch and later get an iPhone you can transfer them over to the iPhone.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Nintendo was already more or less at market saturation with younger audiences.

They are still moving 200K units a week- that outpaces the iPhone by a significant margin.

A DS from 2004 still plays brand new games as they are released today, and the DSi is no better at playing those games than the original DS.

Do you not follow the handheld market at all? Honest question as I find it hard to believe anyone who does isn't aware that that certainly isn't true-

http://www.nintendo.com/ds/online/dsiware

Their are 197 games listed on Nin's site that play on the DSi and XL that will not play on the DS or DS lite.

Regardless of how people come to buy an iPhone or an iPod Touch, the fact of the matter is that they run 99% of the same software.

As a consumer electronics device they are very different. A WalMart netbook and an uber phase changed desktop rig both run the same software, they aren't comparable as devices.

at best their parents buy them cheap phones or they go post-paid

Why do you think that? For kids old enough for phones, the iPhone is comparable in cost to any decent MP3 player.

The iPhone and the iPod Touch are the same device, redressed to meet the pricing flexibilities and perceptions of the target markets.

As consumer electronics devices, they aren't even close. People who go shopping for a phone don't decide to buy an iPod touch instead. For someone who is a devout Apple enthusiast they may see things differently, but in terms of the market they certainly aren't comparable.

LOL, to disqualify the iPod Touch from the "iPhone" gaming platform

Comparing Apple's gaming sales to Nintendo is like comparing the sales of Toyota to Ferrari in terms of volume. Apple has paid out ~$1Billion to developers total- by way of comparison Wii Fit has moved over $2Billion in sales by itself. As of right now, Apple is not even a rounding error in the gaming market no matter how they try and present themselves. If you want to include them together for gaming sales that is fine, in that instance they are a tenth of a percent at best compared to Nin/Sony in the handheld space. I was comparing them in terms of sales as a consumer electronics device where they are far more competitive.

 

[ViRGE]

They are still moving 200K units a week- that outpaces the iPhone by a significant margin.

Are those iPhone sales, or iPod Touch + iPhone sales? I know Apple sold 15mil iPod Touches between September of 2009 and April of 2010, which would put their sales at roughly 500k/week averaged. Unfortunately no one does a weekly breakdown of iPhone platform devices like they do traditional gaming handhelds.

In any case, 200K is well down from where Nintendo's sales rates used to be, and that's because of market saturation. I really wish VGChartz didn't suck, as it used to be fairly easy to get a historical chart of DS sales.

Do you not follow the handheld market at all? Honest question as I find it hard to believe anyone who does isn't aware that that certainly isn't true-

http://www.nintendo.com/ds/online/dsiware

Their are 197 games listed on Nin's site that play on the DSi and XL that will not play on the DS or DS lite.

I'll give you that point to a degree. But if you check most of the software there, it's calendars, followed by clocks and calculators (and I say this entirely straight-faced; there's so much crap it's not even funny). There are some bonafide games in there, but overall DSiWare has been an immense flop.

More to the point, that's not even what I'm talking about.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/ds

Those are the upcoming DS games. Note that they're all DS games. Not DSiWare, but DS games. That run on the DS, that console from 2004. No one is seriously developing for DSiWare. So the DSi isn't really any more capable of running DS games than a DS from 2004 is. If it doesn't come on a cartridge, then ultimately it doesn't matter.

As a consumer electronics device they are very different. A WalMart netbook and an uber phase changed desktop rig both run the same software, they aren't comparable as devices.

Those have different performance levels. The iPhone and iPod Touch perform exactly the same. Of course they're also roughly the same size, the same design, etc.

Why do you think that? For kids old enough for phones, the iPhone is comparable in cost to any decent MP3 player.

The full price of an iPhone is $600, you're looking at the subsidized price. There aren't any MP3 players that are that expensive. This is important to note because the subsidized phone makes iPhone plans ridiculously expensive compared to feature phone plans. The smallest iPhone package with unlimited texting is nearly $100/month after taxes.

Meanwhile feature phones are cheap to buy and more importantly are cheap to replace. Almost no one is giving their kid a $600 Smartphone; even with insurance they're hideously expensive to replace compared to a feature phone.

As consumer electronics devices, they aren't even close. People who go shopping for a phone don't decide to buy an iPod touch instead. For someone who is a devout Apple enthusiast they may see things differently, but in terms of the market they certainly aren't comparable.

You keep looking at things the wrong way, and I'm not sure what analogy I can use to fix that. They are the same device. One comes with a cellular modem (and A-GPS), and one does not. There are no other differences between them whatsoever.

 

[hawtdawg]

It would need to be twice as fast as an ATi 3650.

1900XT~=Xbox 360 power
2900XT(320SP) = 1.5*1900XT
=>320SP = 1.5*Xbox SP

So using existing ATi SP's you would need about 240 SP to get Xbox360 performance. Now while this might not be an impressive GPU it certainly uses A LOT more power than current mobile GPU's(probably by a factor of 50).

Surely if it isn't an Nvidia GPU then it will be a PowerVR GPU- who else is there? ATi got out of the mobile market and PowerVR have been mobile GPU leader for years.
My guess is a random ARM CPU core + custom PowerVR GPU all put together on a SoC by NEC.

I have a hard time believing that a 360's GPU is as fast as an 1900xt.

 

[Ancalagon44]

I have a hard time believing that a 360's GPU is as fast as an 1900xt.

it probably isnt - it doesnt have as much memory bandwidth, using only a 128 bit bus. It does however have unified shader processors, like the HD2900, although it doesnt support DirectX 10.

I think most of you are missing out a very important part of Nintendo's strategy though - drive hardware costs as low as possible. Even when the DS Phat launched, it wasnt very powerful compared to the PSP. I mean, even the latest generation DSi (not sure about DSi XL) has a 133 Mhz Arm9 core. Thats it! No GPU at all. 133 Mhz! Smartphones are running around with upwards of 400 MHz ARM cores and a separate PowerVR GPU.

Of course, licensing that IP and using a modern CPU manufacturing process is expensive, and Nintendo avoids it when it can. That being said, they do seem to like to differentiate themselves from their competitors, so I cant see them using SnapDragon. It will probably be a custom die with one, maybe two, modern ARM cores and a third party GPU. Because of the past relationship with ATI, they might be involved, however I'm not aware of any modern ATI low power GPUs. They might not even include a GPU at all - the DS doesnt have one. Yes, it can render 3D, but as far as I know it has no GPU.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Are those iPhone sales, or iPod Touch + iPhone sales?

iPhone sales.

In any case, 200K is well down from where Nintendo's sales rates used to be, and that's because of market saturation.

OK, let's look at how that theory holds up by using the busiest quarter on an annual basis(I found easy numbers for that ).

Q4 '04- 2.84Million
Q4 '05- 5.6Million
Q4 '06- 8.79Million
Q4 '07- 11.15Million
Q4 '08- 11.89Million
Q4 '09- 11.65Million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DS

I guess you can say that they are off their peak, only selling 11.65Million units through their holiday quarter in '09. I would state, rather strongly, that that number indicates that they still haven't reached market saturation by any stretch though.

There are some bonafide games in there, but overall DSiWare has been an immense flop.

I would wager, rather heavily, that the average DSiWare title has sold more copies then the average iPhone title by a decent amount.

If it doesn't come on a cartridge, then ultimately it doesn't matter.

So Apple doesn't matter in the gaming market ultimately. That is what you are saying.

The iPhone and iPod Touch perform exactly the same.

The iPhone 4G performs exactly the same as the original iPod Touch? I assume that Steve Jobs and the press are huge liars then?

The full price of an iPhone is $600, you're looking at the subsidized price.

I'm looking at the price consumers gauge products by. Idealism may work great for theoretical discussions, but I could go buy an iPhone right now for $99.

The smallest iPhone package with unlimited texting is nearly $100/month after taxes.

Either you don't have kids, or they aren't on your cell plan. Adding a line is $10, iPhone data is $15. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it was going to cost an additional $100 a month, perhaps as a single person it would, but we were discussing it for kids. You wouldn't see every child over the age of eleven with their own cell phone if it cost their parents $100 a pop

In total- $99 iPhone w/2year contract- $25x12- $399

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_472TOU364G/Apple-iPod-touch-64GB.html?tp=237

That touch doesn't give my kid a phone either

Almost no one is giving their kid a $600 Smartphone; even with insurance they're hideously expensive to replace compared to a feature phone.

No different then a half way decent set of glasses- and IME kids lose glasses far easier then their phones.

You keep looking at things the wrong way, and I'm not sure what analogy I can use to fix that.

Let me put it in context for you- my job is analyzing sales data and predicting market trends for a distributor. I have a dozen people that work under me, if I ever heard anyone of them saying that the iPhone and iPod Touch were comparable for sales modelling I would fire them on the spot for gross stupidity- that isn't a joke either.

One comes with a cellular modem (and A-GPS), and one does not.

That you can't understand how profoundly different that makes them as products is something I don't think I can help. I have still been looking, have been unable to find anyone who ever went shopping for a phone and ended up with a mp3 player instead.

it probably isnt - it doesnt have as much memory bandwidth

The 360 has far more bandwidth then the 1900xt- you can not ignore the eDRAM on the 360- it is essential to the design.

Smartphones are running around with upwards of 400 MHz ARM cores and a separate PowerVR GPU.

Heh, we have GHZ phones now(with overclocking people are getting ~1.2GHZ)

 

[ViRGE]

I would wager, rather heavily, that the average DSiWare title has sold more copies then the average iPhone title by a decent amount.

The average? Probably. Apple will publish about anything, while Nintendo keeps the reigns tight. So you're looking at 100k+ applications versus about 150.

However for top-tier developers, there has been a lot of complaining about how DSiWare hasn't panned out as Nintendo said it would. For the EAs, ids, Valves, etc I would be very surprised to see their DSiWare sales ahead of their iPhone platform sales.

So Apple doesn't matter in the gaming market ultimately. That is what you are saying.

I knew I should have clarified that before you became a smartass. The primary distribution method for the DS platform is cartridges, the primary distribution method for the iPhone platform is digital distribution. I'm only saying that titles that don't get a cartridge release on the DS generally don't matter.

The iPhone 4G performs exactly the same as the original iPod Touch? I assume that Steve Jobs and the press are huge liars then?

The iPhone that wasn't even announced until 4 hours before this thread was started and doesn't go on sale for another couple of weeks?

We've already had a discussion of how the iPhone platform is generational (which is something that makes it very different from the DS), so of course you can't compare the hardware across generations. The iPhone and iPod Touch from the same generation share the same hardware. Given that the iPhone is a June-June device and the iPod Touch is September-September, the iPod Touch equivalent to the iPhone 4G won't be released for another couple of months.

Either you don't have kids, or they aren't on your cell plan. Adding a line is $10, iPhone data is $15. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it was going to cost an additional $100 a month, perhaps as a single person it would, but we were discussing it for kids. You wouldn't see every child over the age of eleven with their own cell phone if it cost their parents $100 a pop

In total- $99 iPhone w/2year contract- $25x12- $399

http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_472TOU364G/Apple-iPod-touch-64GB.html?tp=237

That touch doesn't give my kid a phone either

You're right, I was looking at individual plans (and I had forgotten that AT&T had started offering 3GSs at $99). But we can look at family plans.

Unlimited Voice(because kids talk too much):
First two lines: $119.99/month
Additional lines: $49.99/month

Unlimited Text:
$30.00/month

Data:
$15/month for 200MB, and let's be realistic here, your kids are going to be racking up everything else, so you probably don't want a huge data-overage bill either, so
$25/month for 2GB

So we're at $50 + $25 + $30 pro-rated, which brings us to around $80 before taxes. I'm taking the highest numbers here, but every usage study I've seen pegs kids as one of the biggest consumers of cellular services. So I don't believe this to be unrealistic.

In any case, your phone is $80x24 + $99 = $2,019.

Your original numbers were off anyhow, it's $25x24 + $99 = $699. Which makes far more sense given that the phone alone is costing AT&T on the order of $400 (never mind the service).

No different then a half way decent set of glasses- and IME kids lose glasses far easier then their phones.

Glasses aren't $600 to replace. And you store glasses on your face, not in your pocket. So you won't be sitting on them. Electronics are much, much easier to kill than glasses (washing machine, anyone?) and it's damage that I'm concerned with, not losses.

Let me put it in context for you- my job is analyzing sales data and predicting market trends for a distributor. I have a dozen people that work under me, if I ever heard anyone of them saying that the iPhone and iPod Touch were comparable for sales modelling I would fire them on the spot for gross stupidity- that isn't a joke either.

Who said anything about sales modeling? Of course they're going to have different sales trends for the hardware. The only point I've been trying to make is that for software developers the two are the same. iPhone owners and iPod Touch owners are both part of the same platform/market for software. This is why you have to count the two together when looking at potential software sales.

 

[ElFenix]

i really don't understand why anyone is arguing that the itouch should not be counted in the iphone ecosystem for terms of potential gaming software base. does the fact that there isn't a cellular radio in the itouch impact gaming? not particularly.

 

[BenSkywalker]

We've already had a discussion of how the iPhone platform is generational (which is something that makes it very different from the DS)

How is it very different from the DS? In terms of hardware, the DS has changed more then the iPhone, it has differing capabilites as a gaming machine also(pre DSi plays GBA game, DSi and later have DSiWare). How is the iPhone different in the terms of a hardware platform?

Unlimited Voice(because kids talk too much):

Hehe, yeah, you don't have kids with a cell phone AT&T has unlimited free cell to cell- I don't think my kids use more then 60 minutes of talk time to land lines between the three of them that have cells each month total.

Unlimited Text:

My wife and I have texting already, and with AT&T unlimited texting is $30 for the family.

Data:
$15/month for 200MB, and let's be realistic here, your kids are going to be racking up everything else, so you probably don't want a huge data-overage bill either, so
$25/month for 2GB

I can see the 2GB limit being valid if you live in an area that has better 3G service then I do, the smartphones here get limited online useage unless they are on WiFi- but I will say going to $25 a month is certainly valid living in certain areas(although not the other charges).

Your original numbers were off anyhow, it's $25x24 + $99 = $699. Which makes far more sense given that the phone alone is costing AT&T on the order of $400 (never mind the service).

The only difference is the data plan, which is actually a bit cheaper for an iPhone then it is for a Droid.

Glasses aren't $600 to replace.

I pay about $350 for normal replacement, unless I want to drive ~an hour to the nearest eyeware place that my company has a plan with(not worth the time IMO).

And you store glasses on your face, not in your pocket. So you won't be sitting on them.

You store your phone in your back pocket? Honestly, never seen that.

Electronics are much, much easier to kill than glasses (washing machine, anyone?) and it's damage that I'm concerned with, not losses.

I do the laundry in my house(my one domestic chore ), we have yet to lose a phone or any other electronic device to the washer ever. That said, I've never found my kids' phones left in their clothes. DS, PSP, MP3 players and games, but never their phones.

The only point I've been trying to make is that for software developers the two are the same.

I have always been comparing them in terms of consumer electronics devices. Software sales wise Apple is, to be kind, a rounding error. Nintendo has singular titles that have sold more then every single app on the app store combined by a considerable margin. As a software platform, the iPhone/iPod doesn't even begin to remotely compete, as a consumer electronics device it is far more competitive.

 

[Necrosaro420]

NSMB Wii selling twice as much as Mario Galaxy in a quarter of the release time shows that most people don't buy games for graphics.

I dont. Thats why im up to 501 NES games and counting.

 

[ViRGE]

So the 3DS was announced today, but Nintendo didn't comment very much on the internals. The top screen is 800x240 (effectively 400x240 due to autostereoscopy) while the bottom one is 320x240. It's backwards compatible with DS games, so there's an ARM chip in there somewhere, but it may not be the primary CPU.

If it was Tegra based I would have expected Nintendo to say something since NVIDIA absolutely loves crowing over design wins. It's not conclusive evidence obviously, but it makes me believe that it's something other than Tegra.

 

[Fox5]

So the 3DS was announced today, but Nintendo didn't comment very much on the internals. The top screen is 800x240 (effectively 400x240 due to autostereoscopy) while the bottom one is 320x240. It's backwards compatible with DS games, so there's an ARM chip in there somewhere, but it may not be the primary CPU.

If it was Tegra based I would have expected Nintendo to say something since NVIDIA absolutely loves crowing over design wins. It's not conclusive evidence obviously, but it makes me believe that it's something other than Tegra.

The specs were said to be between ps1 and ps2. The most likely off the shelf candidates would be snapdragon and maybe tegra 1, since I think all the current powervr designs are fast enough to warrant at least being called ps2 level.

 

[blanketyblank]

ps2 level is pretty good for a handheld I guess. Would have been nice if the rumor was true and it was closer to a 360 though.

 

[IntelUser2000]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/nvidia-unconnected-with-3ds-blog-entry

It's likely a different core, not even PowerVR. Some "Japanese-manufactured" GPU.

 

[Sylvanas]

So who could it be? Nvidia is most likely out so candidates are PowerVR, some ARM derivative, or a 'Japanese manufacturer' yet to be named- Toshiba? Sharp? Most awesome thing for me is finally proper Wifi support with WPA/WPA2.

 

[slayernine]

I'd say the graphics should get close to the Wii, I mean the iPhone is pretty close the wii.

But nintendo doesn't build cutting edge hardware so I don't expect the next DS to be as powerful as the iphone/ipod touch.

I don't know what you have been smoking but the iPhone is a far cry from a Nintendo Wii.

To refresh your memory this is what a 3D iPhone game looks like:

This is what a 3D Nintendo Wii game looks like:

Yes you get it now don't you.

 

[T2k]

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe its a slightly scaled down, 45nm BitBoys Glaze3D accelerator with 64mb of dedicated ram.

But with DDR5, keep in mind.

 

[BenSkywalker]

If it was Tegra based I would have expected Nintendo to say something since NVIDIA absolutely loves crowing over design wins.

I wouldn't expect Nintendo to say anything if it was Tegra based at all, they have been very direct in avoiding discussion about the technology of their systems for quite some time now. I would also expect that if it was Tegra nVidia would be chomping at the bit to tell the world(and their investors) about it and for them to promote it as soon as they are possibly allowed. Not saying I think it is or isn't, but the fact that Nin gave no hardware specs seems to make it fairly obvious that they don't want to talk about it yet(perhaps TGS?, maybe even later this week). Even if it were nV, they won't risk burning that potential bridge if they have a show at getting in the 3DS by breaking Nin's NDA.

The specs were said to be between ps1 and ps2.

The original DS falls into that bracket- closer to the PS1 but still in that same range(inferior poly throughput, superior rasterization and CPU to the PS1). In terms of GPUs, anything remotely current is superior to the PS2 which was in some ways inferior to a Voodoo1(although it did have monster raw fill and poly throughput). Reports coming back from E3 also have the 3DS as closer to the Wii then the PS2(there is a considerable rift there in terms of GPU power). I guess you could easily compare the CPUs to get a comparison that makes it work out that the PS2 is superior to the 3DS, but the CPU is the PS2 blew the XBox's out of the water and still got its' ass handed to it

So who could it be? Nvidia is most likely out so candidates are PowerVR, some ARM derivative, or a 'Japanese manufacturer' yet to be named- Toshiba? Sharp?

If the articles stating that nV aren't involved are accurate, then PowerVR and BitBoys are both clearly out as they all state that Nin is going with a Japanese GPU solution. I don't even know who that could be(Via is Taiwan) although Nin is the company that found ArtX who went on to save ATi from collapse.

Most awesome thing for me is finally proper Wifi support with WPA/WPA2.

My DSis connect to WPA2? Are you talking about for older games?

 

[Fox5]

It could be ARM Mali, ARM's very own inhouse graphics IP.
The Xscale line also has its own 3d processor.

Whoever it is must produce a complete SOC, there's no way nintendo is using a discrete gpu. Maybe Motorola or Toshiba?

 

[slayernine]

The graphics processor in the 3DS is.... DMP's Pica200 GPU

whatever the hell that is.

sources:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/20/dmps-pica200-gpu-is-the-power-behind-nintendo-3ds-video/

http://translate.google.com/transla...tp://www.dmprof.com/release/20100621_3DS.html