Who here would study a true, 4yr IT program?

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
10,074
0
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I have been thinking this over a lot lately. Basically, I am frustrated with the IT industry. And by IT, I mean information technology as in servers, networks, databases, and computer support. For the past 4.5 years, I have worked as desktop and helpdesk support for a few different companies, including Enron, Swbell, and a couple of non-fortune 500 ones. In each company, I hit a ceiling that I could not break. Every time I was told I was not promoted beyond desktop/helpdesk because I had no server or network experience. I was told to go get certifications, which I did. I guess it was bad timing, but after I had completed the certs or classes I was asked to, it was so said that such certs and classes were no longer useful. I guess the braindump effect where certified techs had no clue what they were doing. So I used a couple of headhunters to find me an entry level network or server job. No luck after about a year. All the job offers were helpdesk or desktop for no more than $15/hr. I spoke to each of my bosses, and I always got highest or very high marks on my quarterly or yearly assessments, and none of them could offer a legitimate reason why I was being passed on for promotion. BTW, this happened to a lot of my friends too, so I know I am not alone. Any of you in the IT industry (as I define it) probably know what I am talking about. Unless you are in the right place or know the right person, getting promoted in IT is very difficult. It often has little to do with ability, as I often knew more about fixing a problem than the level 2 techs I was sending tickets to. But alas, mine and my comrades aptitudes went largely unnoticed. This has been my experience anyway.

I think one way to alleviate this would be to develop a legitimate 4yr degree in servers, networks, computers, et al. I am currently finishing my associates in Unix administration (straight A's, one B so far) and will graduate in December. The sad thing is, I don't know where the job offers are going to come from. I cannot find any jobs at school for my degree, and the job placement center is a joke. I think the resources a bigger school has would help entry level techs find work more easily. First, you could take intern programs like any degree plan. My cousin, an EE at TI in Dallas that makes $80k plus, got his experience as an EE intern and then made a good living straight out of college. Why can't we do this in the IT field? Another friend of mine took an intern in Business MIS, and when she finished here degree, started making almost $50k and is now making about $60k. Also, more companies target 4 yr school grads than associates degree grads. I would take a 4yr IT degree if one existed, but I cannot find it. So I will probably also have to finish my bachelors in MIS also before I will get a legitimate job offer, because I lack experience in Unix or server administration.

This is a very tough catch 22 that many IT people face. I think because IT is relatively new compared to other areas like accounting or engineering, that a 4yr degree hasn't been developed. But I for one think it would be a great way to legitimize a field considered by many to be childs play, when in fact many network administrators know this is not true. Any agreement or am I alone in my thinking?
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
10,074
0
0
Originally posted by: gopunk
informatics at the university of washington:

http://www.ischool.washington.edu/informatics/

Internet browsing and searching
Database design and development
Human-computer interface design
Online database development
Computer network design
Information systems design, implementation and evaluation
Information systems requirement specifications
Information resource management
Information policy and ethics



Thats the closest thing I have seen yet. If only I lived in Washington :) But maybe that will filter down into TX soon.
 

LAUST

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
8,957
1
81
My problem is the speed things change... would a 4 year uni professor be willing to come in to the class one day and say, Midterm has changed there is a new 802.X standard this week.

Unix and Programming languages I can see a degree for as they are the same with enhancements
 

etalns

Diamond Member
Dec 20, 2001
6,513
1
0
Wyvrn, It'd probably give you alot more qualifications then alot more people out there, as the average joe in IT most likely hasn't taken a 4 yr IT program, but something smaller. But it's value in the future, that has yet to be seen.
 

trmiv

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
14,670
18
81
That would be a nice program to get into, I wish the MIS program at my school had more technical classes required. I am about to graduate (6 more weeks) with a BS in MIS, and I don't feel that my program prepared me at all for a job in IT or IS. My program was more business based, and barely scratched the surface of the more technical topics, and completely skipped others.

I can't even find a helpdesk to desktop support job right now, which I am more than willing to take just to get a full-time job. My current employer where I do technical support, has no intention of letting me work full-time once I graduate, nor do I have the desire to work full-time for them. BTW, anyone know a place hiring desktop support or helpdesk people full-time in the Bay Area?
 

Grminalac

Golden Member
Aug 25, 2000
1,149
1
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The best course of action in my view would be to possess some type of engineering degree. Say EE or the like. Sure its different from the IT field, but a degree like that coupled with a few certs would show the employer that you are not just a braindump cert holder. You possess a degree in a very tough field. That would likely get the promotions you want as well as the money.
 

pcmodem

Golden Member
Feb 6, 2001
1,190
0
0
Yo,
Would be great if one could get a degree in CS/CE, with an emphasis in Servers (Microsoft, UNIX, or Novell), Security (PIX, Checkpoint, Sonic, etc.), Routers and Switches...

-PCM
 

wyvrn

Lifer
Feb 15, 2000
10,074
0
0
Originally posted by: Grminalac
The best course of action in my view would be to possess some type of engineering degree. Say EE or the like. Sure its different from the IT field, but a degree like that coupled with a few certs would show the employer that you are not just a braindump cert holder. You possess a degree in a very tough field. That would likely get the promotions you want as well as the money.


I don't think many people are going to IT with an engineering degree. I think you can make more in engineering if you are any good. But I wouldn't cut it as an engineer either. Thats why there should be a separate degree for those good in IT but not neccessarily CS or EE. Right?


LAUST

Yeah I know, stuff changes fast. MS changes every 2 years approx, but at least you would have a base to work from. Besides, most people say you don't use most of the stuff they teach you in EE or CS, its just a prep for the real working world. I don't see where IT is different.