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Discussion in 'Console Gaming' started by Atty, Feb 22, 2013.
wow! congratulation! i bet it is stunning!
Good choice, there are decent calibration settings here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1338491/panasonic-st30-diy-calibration-and-settings-thread
The burn-in isn't quite as permanent on more recent plasmas, unless you try really hard. That's why they started calling it image retention instead - less negative connotation, and it really is less likely to be permanent. Running the scrolling bar won't do anything thing on a lot of newer plasmas unless you have a true full burn-in, and even then I'm not sure how much it would help - I wonder if its just there to make people feel good, give you a bit of a placebo effect. Best fix I have found while looking around is to unplug the TV every few months for a day - unplug it when you go to bed and wait until you get home from work the next day.
I have a Panasonic ST30, and I noticed a couple months ago that the symbol from a TV channel was showing up in very bright scenes. Had the TV since end of 2011 or early 2012, never had any issue until a couple months ago, and the symbol being retained was only from the previous couple months. I ran the scrolling bar utility, didn't do anything at all. Popped in a blu-ray and noticed halfway through the movie during a bright scene that the main menu had been retained - it had only been up for a minute! TV was also starting to buzz more noticeably, generally can't hear it at all. I was getting really pissed, specifically with the buzzing, so I started googling. People have identified a million different potential reasons for loud buzzing on various units - this only made me feel worse. Was debating whether I was going to call Panasonic or pop open the back myself and see if I could isolate the buzzing source when I stumbled upon the suggestion of unplugging the TV for a day to release a buildup of charge in some of the capacitors on the main board (buzzing) and in the pixels (image retention). Did it and it worked. I won't claim for it to be an exact fix for the issues but it makes sense to me and seems to have worked for a number of people, so its worth a shot for anybody else.
Edit/update: Just glanced around again. Looks like the scrolling bar would work better if it ran longer or was brighter. Some people have had luck hooking their computer up and leaving a bright solid-color image up on the screen overnight. How effective this really is without wearing out your display I'm not sure, guess it depends on how severe the burn is. If its to the point that the pixels are actually damaged and have permanently lost some of their brightness then you're just SoL and you pretty much have to burn the rest of the display down until the old burn is indistinguishable.
On the newer models...quality models that is, it's very much non issue. A cheap one then yeah.
Though when i watch non HD stuff, like DVD's, the pixels look pretty strange at times, like a slight LSD effect, not ghosting, almost like a morphing or shift on peoples faces...at least that's the areas i notice them.
Other than that, i see no difference, even the blacks looks just as dark and crisp on my LCD.
that means you are sitting too close to it. if i stick my nose 2 feet away from mine, sure i can see the glitter. 9 feet away on the couch? nope. not at all.
I do, it's not bad. I'm not sure it's a plasma thing or my TV specifically, but it has this really weird "fuzz" or digital snow type of thing that happens on bright green colors specifically. I haven't used the xbox in a while but it used to have a lot of green on the main navigation screens that highlighted it. In motion in games I've never noticed it but it's definitely an issue with the right static images.
You are missing the point if you think slides are for preventing burn in. The reason is simply to age the display uniformly and then tune the display. Yes, burn in is more possible early in a plasma tvs life, but can happen at any point. Image retention is also likely and the typical issue people run into.
I have a 50" LG plasma for use as HTPC/gaming screen, love it. However, must note that burn in/image retention is definitely still a fact of life on plasma screens. It doesn't tend to be truly permanent but if I have been browsing a lot and then switch to TV or a movie I can often see the static parts of the browser ghosted over the show, especially in the lighter scenes. Same thing can happen if I game for long periods of time and then switch to movie or whatever, the static HUD shows up as an overlay (typically 'dissolves' slowly over time).
But even with these issues, I wouldn't trade my plasma for an LCD. The picture quality is much, much better and motion blur just doesn't happen.
Try another HDMI cable or port.
Panasonic's are known for their noise (mosquito noise). They've gotten better over the years, but Samsung still trumps them in that regard (Samsung plasmas offers a much cleaner picture).
So when I hear people make blanket statements like, plasmas are this or plasmas exhibit this or that behavior, it's simply a generalization that's not accurate. All plasmas are NOT created equally. Yes, there are flaws inherent to the tech, but each company uses different methods to mitigate those flaws. I always bring this up, because they ARE still the standard, but Pioneer plasmas were in a league of their own. They just produced a VERY well rounded display that pretty much overcame most the plasma tech's downfalls. Now you have the choice of Samsung and Panasonic, and each have their share of issues, but no more than the LCD side. You just have to pick your poison. You can also go projection, but with projectors you normally just get a bigger picture not a better picture. Now if you own a Sim2, Runco, high end Sony (4K), Meridian, Christie, or Barco projector, you're the man.
Seems like a lot of people still confuse burn-in with image retention. Image retention is something that is inherent in plasma technology, and is a mild annoyance on some displays, even today. Burn-in is pretty much nonexistent in today's plasmas.
So which plasma today ships without pixel shifting, screen savers, etc, because if its not a problem those things aren't necessary...
This and what JackBurton said (but too long to quote ).
I game on my Pioneer plasma with a PS3, and it's great. There is some IR (image retention) but it's pretty infrequent and goes away quickly. There's no burn-in whatsoever after 5 years of pretty heavy PS3 and HTPC usage.
I also use it with my HTPC for TV, movies, and web surfing. The only issue I have with the HTPC is that my TV is 720p, but I'd have the same problem with a 720p LCD TV.
Unfortunately the "short" life of my plasma will end soon. I probably only have 18 years left before it reaches its half life :biggrin:
It's not a problem because of those things (or at least pixel shifting). If you plan to turn off pixel shifting and leave your video game paused for a month, then I wouldn't recommend a plasma TV. Just like if you're going to drive your car for 30,000 miles between oil changes, then I wouldn't recommend owning a car
With pixel shifting turned on, I doubt a plasma is any more susceptible to burn-in than a CRT. I've seen CRTs with burn-in, but they're typically the result of major abuse, like leaving a PC on with no screen saver for 2 months straight.
Pixel shifting has been around for a long time, but it really does little to reduce IR or BI. I just turn the orbiter off (pixel shifter) on my plasmas. BUT, Pioneer plasmas were just amazing in that regard. I've played games, watched movies, TV shows with white logos and NEVER had a hint of even IR (I mean ZERO). And that's with approximately 12,000 hrs on the penal (last I checked). Now, could I purposely burn-in an image into it? I'm sure I could try by cranking up the contrast and leaving a solid white box in the middle of the screen for a week, but what would that prove? For all practical purposes, Pioneer plasmas are pretty damn IR resistant.
Now again, not all plasmas are created equally. Pioneer is no longer an option for people, so what you are left with is Samsung and Panasonic for plasmas (LG too). Each have had their share of IR reports, but it changes each generation. Panasonic USED to be better with preventing IR, but with their latest 50 series, they seem to have cut some corners to improve in another area (black level). It used to be Samsung's were more prone to IR, but with the 50 series Panasonic, Samsung's have improved in that area this generation while Panasonic seems to have taken a step backwards. We'll just have to see if Panasonic can fix this issue on the 60 series coming out this year.
If I were to choose a plasma today for gaming though, I'd wait to get a 60 series Panasonic. Definitely some good early reports so far, but that's always the case with Panasonic and Samsung. Early reports don't mean squat until consumers have them in their hands and put them through their paces.
Burn in occurs most easily when the TV is still new. After using it for a while, it's not as much of an issue. Most plasma TVs come with an anti-burn-in feature that you can use after gaming for a few hours. After running it for a few minutes it will get rid of the lingering images from HUDs, etc.
So if you get a newer set, take care to run whatever anti-burn-in functionality it has after a long gaming session. After a while it becomes less of an issue and you don't need to worry about it.
Game on the 50 inch Panasonic Plasma in sig.
Wanted the quickest, fastest reflexed game at 60 frames a second to see if I noticed the difference. Fired up Quake III Arena.
Holy hell, I didn't realize all the ghosting my LCD had before.(It was a Samsung LCD that advertised 6ms response times; yeah right) Every frame is crisp and clear, mouselook is utterly smooth and precise, it's...a different experience. The key is to set the brightness and contrast low enough you don't see any dithering and sit far away enough you can JUST make out individual pixels (so that dithering does its job without taking away from the experience). It was like playing on a CRT.
Annoyingly, if you've got higher than 20/20 vision, you're going to notice the dithering, or dancing pixels, if you sit too close. People who assert that LCD's are 'cleaner', that's certainly true, because they have higher color depth per pixel than plasmas have, so a plasma has to resort to a method of flashing lower bit depth colored pixels to 'paint' an image from a few feet away.
As for burn in: I use this TV as my HTPC/main gaming computer so I've noticed some image retention at the top, the Close/Minimize/Restore title bar buttons have retained on occasion. To combat this, I use Stylish on Firefox with a 'remove scrollbars' add-in and run browsers in full screen (F11) mode all the time when I browse. Then after a few hours of gaming, I run Milkdrop with music playing for about an hour to let the visualizations scrub the screen.
Probably more work than I need to do but I listen to music on a basis so I might as well kill two birds with one stone.
I don't use my PS3 for games much anymore, but I used to play it regularly on my Samsung plasma--which is now...6 years old? damn!
Anyhoo, I never had problems with burn in on static images in games, but I also probably didn't have excessively long sessions with the same HUD on the screen. I actually had the occasional problem with extended IR--DvD menus with very high contrast images, and the freaking summer olympics in 2008 with the sparkly NBC logo up in the corner. that obnoxious halo took forever to disappear.
Plasma is gorgeous and I would never switch to LCD (unless that is the only option when I upgrade), but the technical problem I see with games is the ghosting that you get in my older set--not sure if this is still a problem. Essentially like IR, you might get distracted by the fleeting halos of high-contrast lines as you pan the camera or while in movement.
LCDs make my eyes bleed. I can see the backlight shimmer on every single one of them and it drives me nuts. The new 120Hz TVs are just awful. Even monitors made for games suck for games. I still PC game on a CRT and I will until something better comes out or it dies. My PS3 is hooked up to my Kuro and I have never had an issue. I do run the screen cleanup about once a month, and I did the AVS recommended burn-in and calibration, which was one of most dreadful weeks of my life, but it was worth it.
If anyone has a Mitsubishi 2070 or a Sony FW900 they are willing to part with, give me a jingle.
I tried three plasmas when my LCD died about a year ago. The contrast was unbelievably great, but I couldn't deal with the flickering or, much worse, the buzz. Despite a lot of concerts in my teens and early twenties, I have very good hearing and can't find a plasma that I can't hear from every room in my house. Now I'm on a cheap, pretty good back (not edge) lit Samsung LCD but I'd love to try plasma again if the technology improves.
i was gaming regularly on my st50 for about 5 months before i got my projector setup downstairs. i loved it, virtually no input lag and an amazing picture.
I have an old 50'' Pioneer Kuro. Destroys the newer lcd I have in terms of picture quality.
Destroys everything in terms of picture quality. Next-gen 4k sets will still have shit for blacks.