Who here actually believes in god?

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: rainepar

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: alchemize
I have a question.

Often I hear people say that science "proves" that there isn't a god - but science cannot answer the question of "where did the universe come from"?

The answer would have to that there is some way the universe was created, came into existence, etc.? Or some explanation about how it has always existed?

Where did matter come from? And of course if God created matter, what/how was God created?

I don't know how an intellectually honest person could write off the possibility of some "creator" or Science.

Science can't prove God doesn't exist.

If no God matter could have always existed or more likely came from nothing or nothing's collision with something or other nothing..

If there is a God he can exist outside of our universe, he could be an evolutionary product of our universe, he could be a constantly evolving entity over the course of many universes.

There is really no reason to dismiss either. Religion however is a different story.

You can dismiss it because you don't need it.

Well, unless you are wrong correct? Certainly a correct aethiest doesn't need religion...but an incorrect aethiest might be in deep doo doo?

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: alchemize
I have a question.

Often I hear people say that science "proves" that there isn't a god - but science cannot answer the question of "where did the universe come from"?

The answer would have to that there is some way the universe was created, came into existence, etc.? Or some explanation about how it has always existed?

Where did matter come from? And of course if God created matter, what/how was God created?

I don't know how an intellectually honest person could write off the possibility of some "creator" or Science.

Science can't prove God doesn't exist.

If no God matter could have always existed or more likely came from nothing or nothing's collision with something or other nothing..

If there is a God he can exist outside of our universe, he could be an evolutionary product of our universe, he could be a constantly evolving entity over the course of many universes.

There is really no reason to dismiss either. Religion however is a different story.

Religion, like science, is a construct of man. Just science has a lot tighter rules

If there is a God/Satan - Satan has to be pretty pleased with both Religion & Science, eh?

I think a distinct difference between the two is that science is willing to admit it is often wrong. I have yet to see religion pull that one off.

 

[raildogg]

watch the POS atheists flock to this thread and crap all over it

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: rainepar

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: rainepar

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: rainepar

Originally posted by: alchemize
I have a question.

Often I hear people say that science "proves" that there isn't a god - but science cannot answer the question of "where did the universe come from"?

The answer would have to that there is some way the universe was created, came into existence, etc.? Or some explanation about how it has always existed?

Where did matter come from? And of course if God created matter, what/how was God created?

I don't know how an intellectually honest person could write off the possibility of some "creator" or Science.

Science doesn't prove god doesn't exist. There's just no proof for god, so it would be really unscientific to believe in it.

As for the origin of matter, the universe, etc.. if some god can be self existant why can't my matter?

I don't disagree with that as a viable answer (self-existance for either). I think either requires a decent explanation, no?

I hope when we die we get an answer either way. If there is no god - hopefully you get this little flash of understanding and say "oh, that's how it works scientifically". If there is a God, well then you'll be hitting the elevator up or down right?

by explanation do you mean why I would pick one over the other?

Not an explanation by you - sorry I was unclear.

I'm saying in general terms - if matter/God was self-existant, than there would have to be a "how" answer.

I think I see what you're saying. To be honest I can't really give much of an answer. I guess you just have to take some things for granted, we are here aren't we?

For me personally, no I have a hard time taking it for granted. I often explore this question with both scientists and religious folk. Other than your answer - of taking it for granted (on faith that god exists, or on faith that someday science can prove how matter came into being) - nobody has a good one yet

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: alchemize
I have a question.

Often I hear people say that science "proves" that there isn't a god - but science cannot answer the question of "where did the universe come from"?

The answer would have to that there is some way the universe was created, came into existence, etc.? Or some explanation about how it has always existed?

Where did matter come from? And of course if God created matter, what/how was God created?

I don't know how an intellectually honest person could write off the possibility of some "creator" or Science.

Science can't prove God doesn't exist.

If no God matter could have always existed or more likely came from nothing or nothing's collision with something or other nothing..

If there is a God he can exist outside of our universe, he could be an evolutionary product of our universe, he could be a constantly evolving entity over the course of many universes.

There is really no reason to dismiss either. Religion however is a different story.

Religion, like science, is a construct of man. Just science has a lot tighter rules

If there is a God/Satan - Satan has to be pretty pleased with both Religion & Science, eh?

I think a distinct difference between the two is that science is willing to admit it is often wrong. I have yet to see religion pull that one off.

Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

So that part about all of us descending from a single man and woman hasn't been shaken up just a tad by genetics?

I mean, I don't have any agenda here, I just think it's kind of silly to cling to the idea that things like the Tower of Babel actually occurred.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: rainepar

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
*raises hand*

Why. There's no proof. Do you believe in Santa Clause?

I believe Santa Clause is spelled Santa Claus, I believe in God, and I believe you can't spell as smart as you think.

 

[QuitBanningMe]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

So that part about all of us descending from a single man and woman hasn't been shaken up just a tad by genetics?

I mean, I don't have any agenda here, I just think it's kind of silly to cling to the idea that things like the Tower of Babel actually occurred.

Technically we did. They just lived thousands of years apart.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

So that part about all of us descending from a single man and woman hasn't been shaken up just a tad by genetics?

I mean, I don't have any agenda here, I just think it's kind of silly to cling to the idea that things like the Tower of Babel actually occurred.

It depends if you take the bible literally or allegorically.

From a literal sense - I think it's been proven that the world isn't 3,000 years old, and neither is humanity. If you apply allegoric context to the bible - it changes things a bit.

 

[LordMorpheus]

I believe in something above man. I don't accept any of the religious models of "god" that I've read/heard about.

 

[ifoundthetao]

I definitely believe, and actually I am getting baptized tomorrow (sunday)!! I'm really psyched

 

[Insomniak]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

So that part about all of us descending from a single man and woman hasn't been shaken up just a tad by genetics?

I mean, I don't have any agenda here, I just think it's kind of silly to cling to the idea that things like the Tower of Babel actually occurred.

It depends if you take the bible literally or allegorically.

From a literal sense - I think it's been proven that the world isn't 3,000 years old, and neither is humanity. If you apply allegoric context to the bible - it changes things a bit.

Oh I realize the difference in perspective, but if you take it allegorically, don't you have to take it ALL allegorically? I mean, how do you determine what's philosophical parable and what's "Divinely inspired truth"?

To me, seems to be an awful lot of picking and choosing. It's almost live everyone is deciding what the Bible is for themselves!


(Will he take the bait?)

Originally posted by: QuitBanningMe

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

So that part about all of us descending from a single man and woman hasn't been shaken up just a tad by genetics?

I mean, I don't have any agenda here, I just think it's kind of silly to cling to the idea that things like the Tower of Babel actually occurred.

Technically we did. They just lived thousands of years apart.

Wiseass

 

[BMdoobieW]

I do! I do!

 

[ifoundthetao]

actually, if you guys want to read some really strong evidence in favor of the bible, check out Dr. Hugh Ross this guy is awesome. seriously, he came to lecture at my church on a friday night and it was spectacular. this guy knows what he is talking about, and if he is ever near you, seriously, go see him, he will definitely help you answer some questions that you or friends have.

 

[SirBrass]

I believe, and KNOW that there is a God. To me, this is concrete fact.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Insomniak

Originally posted by: alchemize
Well - it's hard for religion to admit it is wrong - since the only proof is when you kick the bucket right?

So that part about all of us descending from a single man and woman hasn't been shaken up just a tad by genetics?

I mean, I don't have any agenda here, I just think it's kind of silly to cling to the idea that things like the Tower of Babel actually occurred.

It depends if you take the bible literally or allegorically.

From a literal sense - I think it's been proven that the world isn't 3,000 years old, and neither is humanity. If you apply allegoric context to the bible - it changes things a bit.

Oh I realize the difference in perspective, but if you take it allegorically, don't you have to take it ALL allegorically? I mean, how do you determine what's philosophical parable and what's "Divinely inspired truth"?

To me, seems to be an awful lot of picking and choosing. It's almost live everyone is deciding what the Bible is for themselves!


(Will he take the bait?

Bait? You have a carefully laid trap for me?

I'm by no means a bible expert, but huge swaths of it are allegorical (or just plain unclear). Other parts are quite clear - i.e. 10 commandments.

Let's assume for a minute there is a god - presto - I'm god. Well, wouldn't it just be much easier to give everyone understanding of who I am directly? I mean, I'm god. I can just appear for everyone and all will be cool. Anyone gets out of line - another appearance. And just put everything down on a few lines - 10 commandments, plus maybe another couple 100 "what if's" for the tough scenarios?

But then - where would free will be? Where would the neverending quest for knowledge be? Isn't that what the garden of eden was about - taking that bite of the apple to puruse knowledge of good and evil?

Anyhow - I'm starting to ramble - I'm up too late


But to your point - everyone deciding what the bible is for themselves - I think that is represented by the various flavors of christianity/judaism no?

 

[BW86]

Not again...