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Who games on a 120Hz tv?

ZappDogg

ZappDogg

Senior member
I keep hearing "Don't hook your console up to a 120Hz TV, the lag is terrible!", but I've noticed nothing but improvement, and with no lag. My Rock Band accuracy has increased, and games just look better.

Is this just FUD getting spread around?
 
No, they mean "don't game on a 120hz TV with motion enhancer on". I have a 120hz TV - it's great. But if you turn on the motion enhancement features that add interpolated frames, you _will_ get lag.

IMHO, the improvement is probably mostly in your head, or with more experience. 120hz really shouldn't do anything for gaming, since that's already at 60hz.
 
Originally posted by: ZappDogg
i'm playing with the motion enhancer on, and it makes halo and gears look awesome. there is NO lag.
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I seriously doubt that. Motion enhancer _can't work_ without lag, because it needs time to generate those interpolated frames. You're just not noticing the lag.
 
I've played some games with motion enhancer on and I don't notice the lag. I have it off most of the time though.
 
I have a 120Hz TV (Sony KDS-50A3000) -- I play with the Motion Enhancer turned off because of the lag, especially during music games such as the Rock Band and Guitar Hero series.
 
When I first went from a CRT to a LCD, I noticed a bit of lag from my ps3 but I had adapted to it within a matter of hours. I wouldn't underestimate the plasticity of the human nervous system and it's ability to cope with change.


oh, but my TV doesn't do the fancy pants 120hz stuff 🙁 Still, I'd put money on that even if there is a lag delay introduced by the interpolation process, it wouldn't be too hard for a person to become accustomed to it and just not notice it anymore.
 
there absolutly has to be lag with interpolated frames just because 'future' frames are required to generate 'current' interpolated frames.

In a normal TV the frames will be sent to directly the display (ignoring other image processing like colour balancing and sharpening). With frame interpolation, the current frame is delayed being sent to the display so it can be used to calculate frames between current and previous. You will get at least 1 frame of lag.

This would likely affect people for a bit after making the switch but like mxyzptlk says, a person should be able to adapt.
 
Originally posted by: mxyzptlk
When I first went from a CRT to a LCD, I noticed a bit of lag from my ps3 but I had adapted to it within a matter of hours. I wouldn't underestimate the plasticity of the human nervous system and it's ability to cope with change.


oh, but my TV doesn't do the fancy pants 120hz stuff 🙁 Still, I'd put money on that even if there is a lag delay introduced by the interpolation process, it wouldn't be too hard for a person to become accustomed to it and just not notice it anymore.
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120 hz refresh by itself should make 0 difference between that and a 60hz TV for GAMES (or any other 60hz input source like cable/regular TV).

Where the 120hz helps is with source inputs that have 24fps like Blu-Ray movies. With 120hz, you can acheive even 5:5 pulldown vs 3:2 pull down which causes judder.

The 120hz feature should not be confused with Samsung's "Auto Motion Plus 120hz" or Sony's "Motion flow 120hz" b/c those are different features than just a plain 120hz refresh rate.

I'm still not sure why Samsung or Sony added the term 120hz in their motion enhancing features.
 
This thread is worthless. If he can't tell if there's lag, why the hell does it matter? Quit trying to change his mind. Who the fuck cares?
 
Not all 120Hz TVs interpolate frames. My Samsung DLP uses 120Hz to work around the issue it can't display full 1080p signal at 60Hz. So it breaks down 1080p frame into two 1080i frames and shows them at 120Hz instead of 60Hz. No interpolation = no lag.
 
I turn it off for rock band, but leave it on for most other games. Motionflow is pretty incredible - gears 2 at 120fps was awesome. Theres a very small amount of lag added, but it's not a problem for any game other than rock band.
 
Anyone game with a PC on a 120Hz TV? Can you set the refresh rate to 120Hz and have FPS type games look better as well?
 
It would only work well if the PC game can lock at 30fps, and I've played very few PC games with a frame rate lock.

It also adds a slight bit of lag but its not for the super hardcore, but it makes such a huge difference on 360 games that I cant even describe it. You dont realize how big a deal frame rate really is until you can switch between see 120fps and 30fps with the press of a button. I can barely stand playing anything at 30fps anymore.

The motion enhancers arent perfect, but they do a pretty impressive job considering what theyre trying to pull off.
 
On my TV, motion enhancement isn't an option on the RGB input. I tried doing a DVI to HDMI from the PC (since I could do motion enhancement that way), but it was quite laggy (mouse movements).
 
Originally posted by: Kazaam
BD2003, im pretty damn sure 120Hz does NOT = 120fps.
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Correct, by itself 120hz does not = 120fps.

120hz + frame interpolation = 120fps.

Originally posted by: VIAN
Yeah, you mean you can't stand playing @ 30fps @ 60Hz. You need to play @ 30fps @ 120Hz.
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I meant quite literally what I said - I cant stand playing at 30fps. 30fps @ 120hz is just 30fps. 30fps interpolated to 120fps @ 120hz - now thats a different story.

Its one of those things that you wont understand how well it works until you see it in person. By and large its as almost good as a real 120fps, there are some slight artifacts around fast moving objects. Its such a world of a difference and I've become so accustomed to such smooth frame rates that 30fps alone is very ugly to my eyes now.

Certainly its quite difficult to distinguish 120fps from 60fps, but it can be done (especially in 2d games). The point is that 30fps games (and 24fps film) appear to be running at perfectly fluid frame rates - if you cant imagine 120, just imagine 60 and you're 99% there.

So yes, I have been playing gears of war 2 at 120fps on my 360, and no, I am not crazy. It looks absolutely amazing.
 
Originally posted by: BD2003
Originally posted by: Kazaam
BD2003, im pretty damn sure 120Hz does NOT = 120fps.
Click to expand...

Correct, by itself 120hz does not = 120fps.

120hz + frame interpolation = 120fps.

Originally posted by: VIAN
Yeah, you mean you can't stand playing @ 30fps @ 60Hz. You need to play @ 30fps @ 120Hz.
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I meant quite literally what I said - I cant stand playing at 30fps. 30fps @ 120hz is just 30fps. 30fps interpolated to 120fps @ 120hz - now thats a different story.

Its one of those things that you wont understand how well it works until you see it in person. By and large its as almost good as a real 120fps, there are some slight artifacts around fast moving objects. Its such a world of a difference and I've become so accustomed to such smooth frame rates that 30fps alone is very ugly to my eyes now.

Certainly its quite difficult to distinguish 120fps from 60fps, but it can be done (especially in 2d games). The point is that 30fps games (and 24fps film) appear to be running at perfectly fluid frame rates - if you cant imagine 120, just imagine 60 and you're 99% there.

So yes, I have been playing gears of war 2 at 120fps on my 360, and no, I am not crazy. It looks absolutely amazing.
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This just goes to show you folks - PEOPLE CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ~50FPS AND HIGHER.

Interpolating frames is not 120fps. Your console is STILL running at 60Hz, hence 60fps. The TV is running 1/60th of a second SLOWER on input (your 360 is outputting one frame ahead of what your TV is displaying).
 
It depends on the game you play. For instance, if I play MKII (or any other fighting game) on a Samsung LNXXA650 on any mode but "game mode," there is a HUGE difference in regards to lag. Shooting games can hide the lag better than fighting games. But if you don't notice the lag, great.
 
Originally posted by: SunnyD
This just goes to show you folks - PEOPLE CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ~50FPS AND HIGHER.
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I can absolutely guarantee you that with the right game, I can tell the difference. It can be *extremely* difficult, as I said, it's most noticeable with 2d games with scrolling backgrounds. The scrolling background is ever so slightly smoother/clearer.

Like I said, the difference is so small its irrelevant. The important jump is from 30fps to 60+fps, whether thats 60, 120, 240 or 48000000.

Interpolating frames is not 120fps. Your console is STILL running at 60Hz, hence 60fps. The TV is running 1/60th of a second SLOWER on input (your 360 is outputting one frame ahead of what your TV is displaying).
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The console outputs over a 60hz signal, typically every refresh (60 fps), or every other (30fps).

The TV then takes that 30fps or 60fps, and adds new frames in to get to the 120. This isnt simple blurring the frames together to add new frames, which would be pointless. This is using motion vectors to add intermediate frames.

With a 60fps game, there is precious little difference, since its already smooth.

With a 30fps game (the vast majority of 360 games), the difference is astounding, almost indistinguishable from 60+fps most of the time.

I'm a frame rate whore, thats the reason I bought this TV, with this technology, because it works. You are welcome to come over any time to see the buttery smooth frame rate in GoW2 for yourself.
 
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